HGV licence advice

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Hi all,

I am not a professional trucker driver, nor am I likely to be, but I do have a need to drive a large vehicle for pleasure. I have a 10T Leyland DAF 45-150 with a horsebox body and would like to be able to drive it! I gather I’m going to need an LGV licence but have a couple of questions:

  1. If I get the provisional LGV licence added to my car.bike licence, can I now drive the truck if a qualified person is with me? If so, I guess I’d need to display ‘L’ plates? Could I use motorways?

  2. As it’s a leisure activity and no reward will be sought for the truck’s use, I understand I don’t need an O-licence or need to use the tacho?

Cheers!

2

Hi and welcome to TruckNet UK weasley :smiley: .
I am only guessing but I think you would
need someone with a lgv licence with you
and L plates on. I got told you can go down
the motorway as you are legally allowed to
use the motorway as you have a full car licence.
As for question 2 I don’t know.

3

Welcome Weasley. Convoy is correct when he says you are allowed on the motorway, as learner LGV drivers are. The qualified driver who accompanies you must have held his licence for three years and you do of course need L plates. I believe an O licence is only needed for the carrying of goods for commercial reasons so you may well be exempt (not 100% sure).

4

Just to add, as it’s a 10t vehicle would it be possible to get it replated to 7.5t? I’m sure the driving school I used did this on their cat. C1 training vehicle.

5

Down-rating to 7.5t is possible but doing this would leave us with a truck with not enough plated capacity to carry the 4 horses it is built for.

Anyway, I’ve always wanted to get an HGV licence, now I have an excuse!

Thanks for the responses on the other q’s. :smiley:

6

You should be ok without an "O"License as long as you don’t carry anyone elses horses for reward, But might be worth checking with your area traffic commisioner.

7

I don’t think you need a tacho either as this only applies to goods vehicles (again I’m not 100% sure)

8

weasley:
2. As it’s a leisure activity and no reward will be sought for the truck’s use, I understand I don’t need an O-licence or need to use the tacho?

If it’s for leisure use only, I don’t think you need an LGV licence.

In the past I enquired about driving a tour coach for a travelling show. I was being paid, but the passengers weren’t fare paying, so I didn’t need a PSV licence & I didn’t need to use a tacho.

9

theghostofcain:

weasley:
2. As it’s a leisure activity and no reward will be sought for the truck’s use, I understand I don’t need an O-licence or need to use the tacho?

If it’s for leisure use only, I don’t think you need an LGV licence.

In the past I enquired about driving a tour coach for a travelling show. I was being paid, but the passengers weren’t fare paying, so I didn’t need a PSV licence & I didn’t need to use a tacho.

I have also heard of this regarding PCV’s but I don’t think it applies to LGV’s (?)

10

A few thoughts…and I speak as a CPC-Holder here (Transport Manager’s qualification) as well as a driver, so hopefully I can give you a fairly definative answer… :wink:

  1. As has already been said, with a provisional LGV cat C entitlement you will need a full LGV cat C licence holder to sit you up in order to be legal on the public road. That person must have held the full LGV category for a minimum of 3 years. You must also have insurance to cover a provisionally licenced driver.

Yes, you would need to use L-Plates. You also need to remember that a provisional entitlement is only valid for 2 years, so you would need to pass your various tests within this time to avoid having to pay to have it re-added to your license.

The good news is that, yes, you can drive on motorways as a learner. An LGV Test is effectively an advanced driving test, therefore the law assumes that you are basically capable of driving in the first place!!! Some test centres - depending on where they are - actually include a short motorway stretch in their test routes. :wink:

  1. Provided that neither the vehicle or activity for which it is used earn you any money (prize money excepted :wink: ) then you will not need an O-Licence.
    If you earn any part of your living from the horses, but are only transporting your own/those of your friends, then you will need a “Restricted” O-licence.
    If you transport horses for “Hire or Reward” the you need a full O-licence.
    I won’t go into the differences between the 2 types of licence here, since you say that the lorry will be used purely for pleasure, therefore you will fall into the first category. :grimacing:

As for tachos, again, provided you don’t need an O-licence then you needn’t use one. However, if the vehicle has one fitted then the speedo won’t work without a “card” in, so you’ll need to insert one for that reason alone, even if you only change it when it gets so tatty that it starts to jam the instrument up. :wink:

You could, of course, just have the tachograph removed and replaced with a basic speedo (although confirming the legality of this from a plating point of view with your local LGV Test Centre would be wise), but personally, I’d leave it in - if only because you never know what you, or a future owner, may want to do with the vehicle in the future…with the impending law-changes regarding Digital Tachos, refitting with new equipment at a later point may prove costly, and it’d be a shame to limit your options or reduce potential resale value for the sake of bunging in a fresh bit of card from time to time. :bulb:

Obviously, as soon as the vehicle comes under any type of O-licence, the driver also becomes subject to Drivers Hours Law.

  1. As you quite rightly point out, “downplating” to 7.5t would be foolish because of the reduction in payload that would result…another pitfall which many ill-informed horsebox owners have discovered at great expense involves axle-weights. A fully-fitted living area designed and legal in a 10 tonner will often result on the vehicle being overweight on the front axle if it is downplated. :open_mouth:

One other thought…as a 10-tonner, the lorry must have a working speed-limiter, set and sealed to 60mph*, unless it is pre-E-reg.
If it doesn’t have one, you will probably have to have one fitted in order for it to pass an MOT…and if it does, it must work. That’s the case regardless of whether the vehicle is being used privately or otherwise.
Quite why anyone would want to hurtle 4 valuable horses and their nearest and dearest down the road at more than 60mph is beyond me, but there are always a few who try and avoid this one. And fail. :stuck_out_tongue:

There’s a guy called Krankee who’s an ex-Traffic Officer and hopefully will be able to confirm all this for you…if he doesn’t appear on the thread, a PM or a post in the Safety and Law Forum will get his attention. :wink:

Hope that helps…:grimacing:

Ps. Before the nit-pickers steam in, yes, the limiter needs only be set to 60mph at the moment…it is over 12t gross that the legal setting is 56mph. This anomaly will AFAIK be ironed out with the new legislation bringing 7.5 tonners under limiter law later in the year, so check to be sure. :sunglasses:

11

I know the theory test and test pass certificate are only valid for two years but are you sure about the provisional entitlement? The reason I ask is because I got my provisional in 1996 but didn’t take the test until 2002.

12

theghostofcain:

weasley:
In the past I enquired about driving a tour coach for a travelling show. I was being paid, but the passengers weren’t fare paying, so I didn’t need a PSV licence & I didn’t need to use a tacho.

This must either have been a little 16 seater van or a coach with 16 or less seats fitted, both are D1 if not O licenced for hire & reward use.
Or it was back in the 80’s when anyone could drive PSV’s on not for hire or reward work on a car licence.
The situation now is that Vans fitted with no more than 16 passenger seats & not used on hire & reward are D1.
But anything with over 16 passenger seats requires a Class D.

13

daxi:

theghostofcain:

weasley:
In the past I enquired about driving a tour coach for a travelling show. I was being paid, but the passengers weren’t fare paying, so I didn’t need a PSV licence & I didn’t need to use a tacho.

This must either have been a little 16 seater van or a coach with 16 or less seats fitted, both are D1 if not O licenced for hire & reward use.
Or it was back in the 80’s when anyone could drive PSV’s on not for hire or reward work on a car licence.
The situation now is that Vans fitted with no more than 16 passenger seats & not used on hire & reward are D1.
But anything with over 16 passenger seats requires a Class D.

It was a full size coach, but thinking about it, it only had about 12 seats, the rest was taken up by bunks & living area.

14

mrpj:
I know the theory test and test pass certificate are only valid for two years but are you sure about the provisional entitlement? The reason I ask is because I got my provisional in 1996 but didn’t take the test until 2002.

AFAIK…but I could be wrong, it’s not unknown. :wink:

15

Lucy:

mrpj:
I know the theory test and test pass certificate are only valid for two years but are you sure about the provisional entitlement? The reason I ask is because I got my provisional in 1996 but didn’t take the test until 2002.

AFAIK…but I could be wrong, it’s not unknown. :wink:

Got my Provisonal last week and it’s valid on Cat C until 2024. :slight_smile:

16

Fair enough…I’ve learnt something there then. :grimacing:

17

Lucy:
Fair enough…I’ve learnt something there then. :grimacing:

The provisional licence lasts until the 45th birthday; however, the theory test pass is only valid for two years. If you don’t pass the practical test before the theory test certificate runs out, you can still drive on your provisional license, but you have to take (and pass) the theory test again before you can take the practical test.

Also, the medical is only valid for a year. I’m not sure whether you have to get your full Cat. C within the year, or just get your provisional license within the year. I suggest contacting DVLA to confirm if you think you might be affected.

For buses, it is classed as a minibus (D1) as long it has no more than 16 passenger seats. A pre-1997 car driving license will have D1 (101) entitlement, where “101” means “Not for hire or reward”. The legal definition of “hire or reward” is “where a consideration [legal term for payment in cash/kind/etc.] is made for a person’s right to be carried”. Therefore, as well as covering “normal” fare-paying passengers, “hire or reward” also includes (for example) residents of a care home if the home provides a bus to transport them around, since the bus is paid for out of the resident’s rent; Scouts/Guides who pay for a bus out of their annual subscription, and even just a group of friends who pool money together to cover the cost of a hire bus for a holiday. There are special licensing arrangements for some of these groups, but it’s something that many people are not aware of (and are therefore probably driving minibuses illegally).

In the case of the “tour bus”, it was probably OK, since “staff busses” are not considered to be “hire or reward”, and as long as it had less than 16 passenger seats, your D1(101) should have covered it.

18

Lucy:
A few thoughts…

…Hope that helps…:grimacing:

WHOA!! Thanks for that very comprehensive reply. It pretty much confirms what I thought.

Right, better get the provisional licence and look into training then. :smiley:

19

According to my FTA handbook, the medical report is only valid for four months and not a year. There is no need to pass the test before it expires, obtaining the provisional entitlement is sufficient.