Hi everyone, my first post, I’ve had a search about but can’t find anything,
I encountered a situation a while ago. If you can offer a reason why this way isn’t legal, please do so.
I can’t remember my exact hours so I’'ll use examples.
I set off from base and drove for 3 hours,
then took a 1 hour break when I could have been on POA (this would then mean I could now drive for 4.5 hrs and base was only 3 hours away)
then I spent 0.5 hours loading
BUT my phone rang and i foolishly answered it, it was for an unscheduled collection. Base now became a 6 hours drive away.
If I were to drive for another 1.5 hours and take only a 30 minute break, could I still continue driving for a further 4.5 hours without another break as i had already taken a minimum of 45 minutes by end of my first 4.5 hours
So to simplify, Would this be legal?
3 hrs driving
1 hr break (It was a minimum of 15 minutes and I used as my first part of my split break)
30 mins other work
1.5hrs driving
30 mins break (30 minutes 2nd part of split break) (Must i really take a full 45 as i have had sufficient)
1 hrs driving
15 mins other work (the other collection)
3.5 hrs driving
Please don’t just say no without thinking about it,
I know a digi tacho will reset the drive time to 0:00 after the 1 hr break, so it would be showing 6 hours without sufficient break by the time i was back at base but that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t legal, does it?
That 30 minute break would have to be 45 minutes to stay legal. As it stands, you will have driven for more than 4.5 hours with only a 30 minute break.
twillcode:
Hi everyone, my first post, I’ve had a search about but can’t find anything,
I encountered a situation a while ago. If you can offer a reason why this way isn’t legal, please do so.
I can’t remember my exact hours so I’'ll use examples.
I set off from base and drove for 3 hours,
then took a 1 hour break when I could have been on POA (this would then mean I could now drive for 4.5 hrs and base was only 3 hours away)
then I spent 0.5 hours loading
BUT my phone rang and i foolishly answered it, it was for an unscheduled collection. Base now became a 6 hours drive away.
If I were to drive for another 1.5 hours and take only a 30 minute break, could I still continue driving for a further 4.5 hours without another break as i had already taken a minimum of 45 minutes by end of my first 4.5 hours
So to simplify, Would this be legal?
3 hrs driving
1 hr break (It was a minimum of 15 minutes and I used as my first part of my split break)
30 mins other work
1.5hrs driving
30 mins break (30 minutes 2nd part of split break) (Must i really take a full 45 as i have had sufficient)
1 hrs driving
15 mins other work (the other collection)
3.5 hrs driving
Please don’t just say no without thinking about it,
I know a digi tacho will reset the drive time to 0:00 after the 1 hr break, so it would be showing 6 hours without sufficient break by the time i was back at base but that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t legal, does it?
Welcome to Trucknet-UK
The example you’ve given is not legal because when you have a break of 45 minutes or more the driving time is reset to zero.
No part of any break can be counted as a driving break until you’ve done some driving, so the last 15 minutes of the 1 hour break cannot be counted for the forthcoming driving period, if that’s what you’re thinking.
In your example you’ve done 6 hours driving since the 1 hour break so it’s illegal.
twillcode:
Hi everyone, my first post, I’ve had a search about but can’t find anything,
I encountered a situation a while ago. If you can offer a reason why this way isn’t legal, please do so.
I can’t remember my exact hours so I’'ll use examples.
I set off from base and drove for 3 hours,
then took a 1 hour break when I could have been on POA (this would then mean I could now drive for 4.5 hrs and base was only 3 hours away)
then I spent 0.5 hours loading
BUT my phone rang and i foolishly answered it, it was for an unscheduled collection. Base now became a 6 hours drive away.
If I were to drive for another 1.5 hours and take only a 30 minute break, could I still continue driving for a further 4.5 hours without another break as i had already taken a minimum of 45 minutes by end of my first 4.5 hours
So to simplify, Would this be legal?
3 hrs driving
1 hr break (It was a minimum of 15 minutes and I used as my first part of my split break)
30 mins other work
1.5hrs driving
30 mins break (30 minutes 2nd part of split break) (Must i really take a full 45 as i have had sufficient)
1 hrs driving
15 mins other work (the other collection)
3.5 hrs driving
Please don’t just say no without thinking about it,
I know a digi tacho will reset the drive time to 0:00 after the 1 hr break, so it would be showing 6 hours without sufficient break by the time i was back at base but that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t legal, does it?
Welcome to Trucknet-UK
The example you’ve given is not legal because when you have a break of 45 minutes or more the driving time is reset to zero.
No part of any break can be counted as a driving break until you’ve done some driving, so the last 15 minutes of the 1 hour break cannot be counted for the forthcoming driving period, if that’s what you’re thinking.
In your example you’ve done 6 hours driving since the 1 hour break so it’s illegal.
Hi and thanks for the welcome,
I wasn’t thinking of using the last 15 minutes of the 1 hour, I was thinking the whole hour could be counted as the first part of my split break. Is it in writing somewhere that a break of 45 minutes or more MUST reset the drive time to zero? I am fully aware that it does, but does it legally have to?
So if i had taken a 15 minute break up to a 44 minute break instead of a 1 hour break then it would be perfectly legal. That doesn’t make sense. I don’t understand how, because i have taken too much break it then becomes illegal. I would still only have had 30 minutes break within 6 hours from the end of my 15 to 44 minute break to the end of my shift. It’s just i took more than 44 minutes for my first part of the split
twillcode:
3 hrs driving
1 hr break (It was a minimum of 15 minutes and I used as my first part of my split break)
30 mins other work
1.5hrs driving
30 mins break (30 minutes 2nd part of split break) (Must i really take a full 45 as i have had sufficient)
1 hrs driving
15 mins other work (the other collection)
3.5 hrs driving
Hi and thanks for the welcome,
I wasn’t thinking of using the last 15 minutes of the 1 hour, I was thinking the whole hour could be counted as the first part of my split break. Is it in writing somewhere that a break of 45 minutes or more MUST reset the drive time to zero? I am fully aware that it does, but does it legally have to?
So if i had taken a 15 minute break up to a 44 minute break instead of a 1 hour break then it would be perfectly legal. That doesn’t make sense. I don’t understand how, because i have taken too much break it then becomes illegal. I would still only have had 30 minutes break within 6 hours from the end of my 15 to 44 minute break to the end of my shift. It’s just i took more than 44 minutes for my first part of the split
If you had taken a 15 minute break instead of a 1 hour break it would have been legal as long as you finished work immediately after the last 3.5 hours driving.
It sounds daft I know but it’s the way the regulations are I’m afraid.
twillcode:
Hi everyone, my first post, I’ve had a search about but can’t find anything,
I encountered a situation a while ago. If you can offer a reason why this way isn’t legal, please do so.
I can’t remember my exact hours so I’'ll use examples.
I set off from base and drove for 3 hours,
then took a 1 hour break when I could have been on POA (this would then mean I could now drive for 4.5 hrs and base was only 3 hours away)
then I spent 0.5 hours loading
BUT my phone rang and i foolishly answered it, it was for an unscheduled collection. Base now became a 6 hours drive away.
If I were to drive for another 1.5 hours and take only a 30 minute break, could I still continue driving for a further 4.5 hours without another break as i had already taken a minimum of 45 minutes by end of my first 4.5 hours
So to simplify, Would this be legal?
3 hrs driving
1 hr break (It was a minimum of 15 minutes and I used as my first part of my split break)
30 mins other work
1.5hrs driving
30 mins break (30 minutes 2nd part of split break) (Must i really take a full 45 as i have had sufficient)
1 hrs driving
15 mins other work (the other collection)
3.5 hrs driving
Please don’t just say no without thinking about it,
I know a digi tacho will reset the drive time to 0:00 after the 1 hr break, so it would be showing 6 hours without sufficient break by the time i was back at base but that doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t legal, does it?
If you count your driving backwards, you will see that you have driven 6 hours with only a thirty minute break.
As already mentioned you cannot split an hour into a shorter break to suit yourself.
If you had taken your first break of 15 minutes followed by 45 minutes of POA you could have used the 30 minute break to complete your split break and also to fulfil the RTD
Thanks for the link to the regs, I’ve had a read of them using the search tool for the word ‘break’ and although for years I thought it was the way you say it is, so I’m not intending to argue with you. Just attempting to clarify it.
All i can find in the regs that relates to my situation is this
Article 7
After a driving period of four and a half hours a driver shall
take an uninterrupted break of not less than 45 minutes,
unless he takes a rest period.
This break may be replaced by a break of at least 15 minutes
followed by a break of at least 30 minutes each distributed
over the period in such a way as to comply with the provisions
of the first paragraph.
My 1 hour break was at least 15 minutes!
Say for example I only took 15 then, my day would look like this
3h driving
15m break
30m other work
1.5h driving
30m break
1h driving
15m other work
3.5h driving
Exactly the same but i have taken 45 minutes less break. I’ve not done more work, just taken less break. I have still done 6 hours driving with only 30 mins break. Are they really going to do me for taking too much break?
Surely common sense has to kick in at some point. I’d love to see it go to court, because i would argue it!
Common sense doesn’t have to kick in anywhere. The regulations are the law as agreed by the European Parliament.
A driver ‘wipes the slate clean’ if he takes a 45-minute break (or qualifying breaks totalling 45 minutes) before or at the end of a 4.5 hour driving period. This means that the next 4.5 hour driving period begins with the completion of that qualifying break, and in assessing break requirements for the new 4.5-hour period, no reference is to be made to driving time accumulated before this point.
The same information is shown in: Vehicle Routing Under Consideration of Driving and Working Hours by Christoph Manuel Meyer
Article 6.2.2.3 on page 116 of this book.
ISBN:9783834929426
twillcode:
My 1 hour break was at least 15 minutes!
Your 1 hour break was a “break of not less than 45 minutes” therefore the driving time is reset.
The point of the driving break being broken up the way it can be, is to ensure that no driver drives excessive hours without the proper amount of break.
The way you want it to work allows you to drive for 6 hours with a break of only 30 minutes, If it went to court I believe you would lose
Wheel Nut:
Common sense doesn’t have to kick in anywhere. The regulations are the law as agreed by the European Parliament.
A driver ‘wipes the slate clean’ if he takes a 45-minute break (or qualifying breaks totalling 45 minutes) before or at the end of a 4.5 hour driving period. This means that the next 4.5 hour driving period begins with the completion of that qualifying break, and in assessing break requirements for the new 4.5-hour period, no reference is to be made to driving time accumulated before this point.
The same information is shown in: Vehicle Routing Under Consideration of Driving and Working Hours by Christoph Manuel Meyer
Article 6.2.2.3 on page 116 of this book.
ISBN:9783834929426
Thanks for that, that’s what i was looking for,
Although when the European Parliment agreed on the regulations, I would assume their aim was to make sure drivers had sufficient breaks between drive time, which I did, and not penalise drivers for taking too many, inadvertantly forcing them to stay out even longer. Surely, providing i haven’t exceeded my first 4.5 hours total driving, it is up to me when i choose to ‘wipe the slate clean’, therefore enabling me to wipe it clean using the half hour i took at the end of the first 4.5 hour driving period.
15 mins is hardly worth arguing about is it? And yes, I know I’m being pedantic, but it would be interesting to see it challenged.
btw, I didn’t receive an infringement for this. try it!
twillcode:
My 1 hour break was at least 15 minutes!
Your 1 hour break was a “break of not less than 45 minutes” therefore the driving time is reset.
The point of the driving break being broken up the way it can be, is to ensure that no driver drives excessive hours without the proper amount of break.
The way you want it to work allows you to drive for 6 hours with a break of only 30 minutes, If it went to court I believe you would lose
