Looking for advice on a bit of a nightmare. In brief I work both as a PSV driver under GB domestic rules and also a retained firefighter. A recent enquiry to VOSA led them to state that there was no legal conflict but all breaks and rest periods had to be observed. This seems at odds with the FTA guidance that " Provided the limits on driving and duty are not exceeded there are no specific legal requirements to take breaks, daily rest or weekly rests. When breaks or rest periods are taken they do not need to be of any specific length of time". Vosa have already conceded that driving time is exempted and that time spent working for the fire service is not counted for any calculation of “Duty” and that PSV driving would not exceed 10 hours. Bit of a long shot but has anyone any knowledge of which is correct as I’m presently on Gardening Leave while the PSV employer conducts an investigation
Welcome to Trucknet-UK jj869812 
jj869812:
Looking for advice on a bit of a nightmare. In brief I work both as a PSV driver under GB domestic rules and also a retained firefighter. A recent enquiry to VOSA led them to state that there was no legal conflict but all breaks and rest periods had to be observed. This seems at odds with the FTA guidance that " Provided the limits on driving and duty are not exceeded there are no specific legal requirements to take breaks, daily rest or weekly rests. When breaks or rest periods are taken they do not need to be of any specific length of time". Vosa have already conceded that driving time is exempted and that time spent working for the fire service is not counted for any calculation of “Duty” and that PSV driving would not exceed 10 hours. Bit of a long shot but has anyone any knowledge of which is correct as I’m presently on Gardening Leave while the PSV employer conducts an investigation
There are no specified breaks for goods vehicle drivers on domestic rules but there are break and rest requirements specified for PSV drivers on domestic regulations.
Rules on Drivers’ Hours and Tachographs (Passenger-carrying vehicles in GB and Europe) Page 24.
So have you any idea what an interval for rest is defined as ? Does that leave you free do other employment as long as its not driving? I know the EU laws don’t but the GB rules do seem to make it allowable. Problem is that exclusion from calculation of work or duty exists but Vosa class this as interrupting a break but default to the EU definition of a break.
jj869812:
So have you any idea what an interval for rest is defined as ? Does that leave you free do other employment as long as its not driving? I know the EU laws don’t but the GB rules do seem to make it allowable. Problem is that exclusion from calculation of work or duty exists but Vosa class this as interrupting a break but default to the EU definition of a break.
Which one were you referring to?
jj869812:
So have you any idea what an interval for rest is defined as ? Does that leave you free do other employment as long as its not driving? I know the EU laws don’t but the GB rules do seem to make it allowable. Problem is that exclusion from calculation of work or duty exists but Vosa class this as interrupting a break but default to the EU definition of a break.
The problem with the domestic regulations is that they are not as well defined as the EU regulations, as far as I can see there is no clear definition of “rest” in the domestic regulations but I tend to think that a court of law would probably define “rest” in pretty much the same way as the EU regulations do, ie a period of time when you can dispose of your time freely or in other words get some rest.
ROG:
jj869812:
So have you any idea what an interval for rest is defined as ? Does that leave you free do other employment as long as its not driving? I know the EU laws don’t but the GB rules do seem to make it allowable. Problem is that exclusion from calculation of work or duty exists but Vosa class this as interrupting a break but default to the EU definition of a break.Which one were you referring to?
Isn’t it obvious that we’re talking about rest periods being interrupted by the OPs position as a retained fire-fighter 
Thanks for the reply’s… You have hit the nail on the head with the lack of definitions in the RTA which leaves VOSA free to place their on interpretation on it. The problem I have is 71 amendment to the act mentions continuous rest which as what I do is excluded from the definition of work ( or other work or POA) leaves things sort of messy. As far as I can see the only way of falling foul of a break is to do qualifying work. I don’t so unless I can get VOSA to change their interpretation I’m stuck in the middle.
I would guess - but may be way out - that as a retained firefighter you don’t work every night and possibly when you do work it is a sort of job and knock and may be 1 hour or may be 10 or more?
Under PCV DOmestic you can work a maximum duty of 16 hours in a working day and must have a 10 hour rest between working days. So on those occasions where you get a shout and have to go do some fireman work perhaps it could still fit in with the rules? Maybe a reduced rest period of 8.5 hours■■?
I think it will be difficult to tie VOSA down to a proper answer and I am inclined to think that should anything ever go wrong when driving the Bus during the day and they find you were on a shout the night before - the ■■■■ will hit the fan. the PCV domestic rules are pretty specific about rest whereas the goods vehicle domestic don’t stipulate rest - just duty.
Although the work as a retained fire fighter may seem to not fit the bill as work (which isn’t clearly defined in the domestic rules) I think you have to be honest and say it is work and as such affects your rest. if you have been fighting a fire for 6 hours through the night then go drive a bus with lots of people on it does kind of go against the idea of the rules doesn’t it?
Don’t say anything about being a retained firefighter and you’ll be okay!
shep532:
I would guess - but may be way out - that as a retained firefighter you don’t work every night and possibly when you do work it is a sort of job and knock and may be 1 hour or may be 10 or more?Under PCV DOmestic you can work a maximum duty of 16 hours in a working day and must have a 10 hour rest between working days. So on those occasions where you get a shout and have to go do some fireman work perhaps it could still fit in with the rules? Maybe a reduced rest period of 8.5 hours■■?
I think it will be difficult to tie VOSA down to a proper answer and I am inclined to think that should anything ever go wrong when driving the Bus during the day and they find you were on a shout the night before - the [zb] will hit the fan. the PCV domestic rules are pretty specific about rest whereas the goods vehicle domestic don’t stipulate rest - just duty.
Although the work as a retained fire fighter may seem to not fit the bill as work (which isn’t clearly defined in the domestic rules) I think you have to be honest and say it is work and as such affects your rest. if you have been fighting a fire for 6 hours through the night then go drive a bus with lots of people on it does kind of go against the idea of the rules doesn’t it?
Get exactly the point your getting at but i should maybe have fleshed out the bones a bit for the sake of clarity. Fire service duties amount to about 70 calls a year over 24/7/365 what we are really talking about is maybe a dozen occurrences which would fall into compliance debate. The issue of turning up in a fit and proper state for driving is something I deal with on a regular basis being a safety rep for drivers in a company who don’t pay if you don’t appear. This responsibility falls on the individual. The Fire Service have a four hour limit on duty which is normally restricted to three. I also have no problems with excusing myself from Fire Service duty should the possibility of conflict with primary employment be there. That is why after five years doing both only twice has my secondary employment affected my main employment resulting in one failure to appear and once being late. The main issue is whether the law defines that for 60 odd hours a week the rights enjoyed by others to freely dispose of leisure time are taken from me.
smokinbarrels:
Don’t say anything about being a retained firefighter and you’ll be okay!
Oops to late.