1 been told I have to attend magistrates court , understand that bit , but it says in letter , charge authorised for the Secretary of State for the department for transport by chermaine perks , of the driver & vechicle standards agency , prosecution & legal services , 3rd floor , Berkeley house , Croydon street , Bristol , bs 5 0da
So will I be going before a judge / traffic commisisioner , who ?
Charges are , you knowingly made a revelant record or entry which you knew to be false on a record required to be made by or for the purposes of the eu tacho graph regulations or section 97 of the transport act 1968 contrary to section 99ze ( 1) (a) , (2) (a) and ( 4 ) of the transport act 1968
Arrest summons number -------------------------
I know what I did but what does all that mean 1,2,4 a 
, arrest summons
Also says at least one of the requisitions issued against you is for what is called a ( either way offence )
This means that the offence can be dealt with by either a magistrates court or the crown court
In this instance you are summoned to appear before a magistrates court and you must attend court and to enter your plea in person
Should you fail to do so the prosecution may ask the court to issue a warrant for your arrest
So is that better it’s before a magistrates court , not crown ? , Mrs is having kittens and wants to get a solicitor ( I’m more just speak for yourself ) , im not sure of outcome so don’t want Mrs to come ( it’s nearly 200 miles home on her own worst scenario ) but she wants to be there .
Nb been to court many a time when younger and never got all this as was normally dragged up from cells on a Monday , fighting , drunk etc , so I’m struggling a bit too understand what all this means , which is why Mrs want to let a solicitor take a look
Thanks
If I’m reading it correctly you’ll be in front of a magistrate so you can enter a plea in person, if you intend to plead guilty I assume the case will be dealt with there and then by a magistrate, it could be postponed but I doubt it would be, if you intend to plead not guilty it could go to crown court.
If you do not attend the magistrates court at the given date and time a warrant for your arrest may be issued, so it’s important that you attend court, if for any reason you cannot attend court on the date mentioned you must let them know in advance, otherwise you could have the hassle of being arrested, you would most likely be bailed but it’s still a pita and worth avoiding if possible.
Driving is your livelihood so my advice would be to see a solicitor and get proper legal advice.
dozy:
1 been told I have to attend magistrates court , understand that bit , but it says in letter , charge authorised for the Secretary of State for the department for transport by chermaine perks , of the driver & vechicle standards agency , prosecution & legal services , 3rd floor , Berkeley house , Croydon street , Bristol , bs 5 0da
So will I be going before a judge / traffic commisisioner , who ?
Magistrate.
The traffic commissioner is the person bringing the charges against you.
dozy:
Charges are , you knowingly made a revelant record or entry which you knew to be false on a record required to be made by or for the purposes of the eu tacho graph regulations or section 97 of the transport act 1968 contrary to section 99ze ( 1) (a) , (2) (a) and ( 4 ) of the transport act 1968
Arrest summons number -------------------------
I know what I did but what does all that mean 1,2,4 a
The numbers 1a, 2a and 4 are the parts of the Transport Act 1968, section 99ze, which you contravened, in legaleze.
If you don’t answer the summons, ie appear in court at the appointed time, they’ll have you arrested.
I don’t know much about this kind of thing, I’ve never been called up before a court.
dozy:
Also says at least one of the requisitions issued against you is for what is called a ( either way offence )
This means that the offence can be dealt with by either a magistrates court or the crown court
In this instance you are summoned to appear before a magistrates court and you must attend court and to enter your plea in person
Should you fail to do so the prosecution may ask the court to issue a warrant for your arrest
Almost everything goes to a magistrates court first. The magistrate might deal with it, or they might decide it’s too much for their authority to deal with and pass it up to Crown Court.
I’d expect a traffic type of offence would be within the scope of a Magistrate.
dozy:
So is that better it’s before a magistrates court , not crown ?
Probably, magistrates are limited on what sentence they can award.
dozy:
, Mrs is having kittens and wants to get a solicitor ( I’m more just speak for yourself ) , im not sure of outcome so don’t want Mrs to come ( it’s nearly 200 miles home on her own worst scenario ) but she wants to be there .
Nb been to court many a time when younger and never got all this as was normally dragged up from cells on a Monday , fighting , drunk etc , so I’m struggling a bit too understand what all this means , which is why Mrs want to let a solicitor take a look
Thanks
You didn’t get all this back then because they didn’t need to tell you to come before the court, they dragged you out of the cells and put you in front of the court, job done.
As you don’t know what “The numbers 1a, 2a and 4 are the parts of the Transport Act 1968, section 99ze, which you contravened” means, I’d speak to a solicitor first if I were you. There are solicitors who specialise in transport law, find one of those. Often they will give you their first half hour free of charge (but don’t count on that, it may only apply to more general enquiries).
It’s unlikely, but possible, that they’ve charged you with the wrong parts of the transport act. A solicitor who knows the transport act would have the charges dropped if they are the wrong ones, you’d be out scot free. Speaking for yourself, you’ll either say “I put me 'ands up gov, they got me bang to rights, I done it”. Take whatever they hand down to you n get on with it.
Or “not guilty gov” and get dumped on even worse if they find you guilty.
A solicitor should be able to predict what you are likely to get. Fine, points, licence suspended or revoked, or whatever. Or time in the nick, or not.
As you think there might be time in nick, I’d get a professional in. A fine, points, I’d just go on my own. Longer term consequences like loss of licence or liberty, solicitor.
If you’re in a union, they can advise you as well, and may be able to give you a solicitor.
Thanks , with court only being 2 weeks away and tramping it’s difficult to get too see a solicitor , but think it’s something I should do , thanks again
Sorry , last question , the charge relates to
1 x amount of mins ( think it was 6/8 apx ) driving without card in
2. Not enough daily rest ( 8 hrs 45 ) if I remember correctly
But it’s saying offences charged
1x knowingly makes a false record ( analogue or digital )
Have they clumped 1&2 together ?, or are they just charging me with 1 ( x a mount of mins driving without a card in .
Probally time I saw a solicitor , but you’d think they’d give you a bit more than 2 weeks to seek advice , thanks
If convicted, you are, according to legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/73/section/97A a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.
That is: £2,500.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198 … e-of-fines
Bear in mind that magistrates very rarely give fines anywhere near the maximum.
Did you deliberately make those records or were they oversights
dozy:
Thanks , with court only being 2 weeks away and tramping it’s difficult to get too see a solicitor , but think it’s something I should do , thanks again
You may be able to get the court case postponed on the grounds that your job doesn’t give you enough time to get legal advice.
I’m not sure how you would go about getting the case postponed but if there’s no phone number on the letter a solicitor or your local police should be able to tell you what you need to do.
As far as the charges are concerned, I assume you booked off on the tachograph when you took the card out so that would be why you’re charged with making a false record.
Now we know what the offence relates to I would say you should still speak to a solicitor for legal advice but I’m not sure it would be worth having legal representation in court, apart from anything else it’s not going to be easy to get a local solicitor if you’re 2oo miles away.
In your situation the first thing I would do, and I would do this as soon as possible, would be to find out how I go about getting the case postponed for a few weeks.
Santa:
If convicted, you are, according to legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/73/section/97A a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.That is: £2,500.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/198 … e-of-fines
Bear in mind that magistrates very rarely give fines anywhere near the maximum.
Thanks , I’d been trying too read up and had it at £5000 max and 2 years imprisonment , so £2500 although not a insignificant amount of money is none the less a improvement ( not sure that’s the right word )
ROG:
Did you deliberately make those records or were they oversights
It’s no excuse but my head had gone that day and I thought why should I get a infringement and took my card out and did last few mins until I parked up with out card in ( I took it out ) , then took daily rest from when I took card out 8 hrs 45 ( 8 months ago so maybe min / two out ) and then did 1 min x amount of seconds as forgot too put card in ( firm I worked for at time only knew of first 2 so they said forget last one ) , but charge say 1x charge .
at least it will be finished with unless I’ve then got to go before traffic commissioner
If it was me then I would plead guilty to the offences but state they were oversights - if that is what they were
Seems a little odd to me that you are being taken to court for what a lot of drivers can do without meaning to UNLESS these are ongoing issues either by you or the companies drivers
ROG:
If it was me then I would plead guilty to the offences but state they were oversights - if that is what they wereSeems a little odd to me that you are being taken to court for what a lot of drivers can do without meaning to UNLESS these are ongoing issues either by you or the companies drivers
How do you take the card out then continue the journey and call it an oversight or say you didn’t mean to 
tachograph:
ROG:
If it was me then I would plead guilty to the offences but state they were oversights - if that is what they wereSeems a little odd to me that you are being taken to court for what a lot of drivers can do without meaning to UNLESS these are ongoing issues either by you or the companies drivers
How do you take the card out then continue the journey and call it an oversight or say you didn’t mean to
Good point …
Hmm. I doubt anybody gets dragged before the magistrates for just a few minutes over their hours. Most of us would probably be on first name terms with the magistrates…
On the other hand, judging by dozy s previous, I doubt this is an isolated incident. I fact, this was waiting to happen.
Still, get a lawyer dozy, and good uck.
the nodding donkey:
Hmm. I doubt anybody gets dragged before the magistrates for just a few minutes over their hours. Most of us would probably be on first name terms with the magistrates…
On the other hand, judging by dozy s previous, I doubt this is an isolated incident. I fact, this was waiting to happen.Still, get a lawyer dozy, and good uck.
Yes your right , I guess every day hundreds if not thousands of driver drive for mins over there time and never appear before a magistrates court 
But then I guess they write on the back of a printout the reason they went mins over there time .
Wheras I didn’t write on the back of a printout , I remove my card , which is why I’m being charged with falsifying a record , appearing before a magistrates court
- I also have insufficient daily rest ,+ proabit ion placed on truck .
Vosa bloke at time said it , why didn’t you just write on a printout , you’ve got nothing else , it’s all you had to do , but I didnt , that’s why I guess I’m in court , even though it sat 1 x charge for falsifying records
driving over your time and writing on printout the reason why is not the same as driving over your time and removing your card
But cheers forbthe good luck , I may need it
Was it just a routine tug from DVSA Dozy? Or do you reckon they were tipped off to pull you?
dozy:
ROG:
Did you deliberately make those records or were they oversightsIt’s no excuse but my head had gone that day and I thought why should I get a infringement and took my card out and did last few mins until I parked up with out card in ( I took it out ) , then took daily rest from when I took card out 8 hrs 45 ( 8 months ago so maybe min / two out ) and then did 1 min x amount of seconds as forgot too put card in ( firm I worked for at time only knew of first 2 so they said forget last one ) , but charge say 1x charge .
at least it will be finished with unless I’ve then got to go before traffic commissioner
Magistrates can impose fines etc (and for some offences, impose penalty points on your licence). But that is no necessarily the end of it as the TC should be notified and may take further action to e.g. suspend your vocational licence.
eagerbeaver:
Was it just a routine tug from DVSA Dozy? Or do you reckon they were tipped off to pull you?
I don’t know to be honest, probally will never no , would they know you’d drove for a 6/8 mins without a card in the previous evening 300+ miles ago , you would of thought not , but I just don’t know
dozy:
eagerbeaver:
Was it just a routine tug from DVSA Dozy? Or do you reckon they were tipped off to pull you?I don’t know to be honest, probally will never no , would they know you’d drove for a 6/8 mins without a card in the previous evening 300+ miles ago , you would of thought not , but I just don’t know
Of course they would, its all held on the VDU, there would be missing data on your card, compared to the VDU.
The fact that you’re pushed to the point of disaster day after day, employer after employer, says 1 of 2 things to me.
a) you’re REALLY bad at picking employers
b) you’re a tear arse, drive to the limit 24/7, kind of numpty, that this industry could well do without.
So which is it?
Conan the Librarian:
dozy:
eagerbeaver:
Was it just a routine tug from DVSA Dozy? Or do you reckon they were tipped off to pull you?I don’t know to be honest, probally will never no , would they know you’d drove for a 6/8 mins without a card in the previous evening 300+ miles ago , you would of thought not , but I just don’t know
Of course they would, its all held on the VDU, there would be missing data on your card, compared to the VDU.
The fact that you’re pushed to the point of disaster day after day, employer after employer, says 1 of 2 things to me.
a) you’re REALLY bad at picking employers
b) you’re a tear arse, drive to the limit 24/7, kind of numpty, that this industry could well do without.
So which is it?
1.your really bad at picking employers , I’m being charged with 1x offence , so if I’ve picked a bad employer in the past it would be a employer , not employers
2. The issue that day came from me being stuck on a building site for 4/5/6 hrs ( I’m struggling too remember exactly how long , and then not ending up with enough time too get parked up within my hours , so again I can’t see how being sat on a building site can be deemed as chasing about .
I’d spent all afternoon ringing , texting , emails being sent from depot to depot , but by the time I’d got out of there ( couldn’t drop tri , unit first into small yard with 8/9t concrete left on one side of a frame ) I was struggling too get out of central London and get parked up , what with Southwark bridge and then fire on a13 I couldn’t make it , I’d spent all afternoon banging my head against a brick wall , frustration , head gone etc , etc , I took my card out , drove 8/9 mins without card , then took 8hrs 45 break , stopped next day , parked up as insufficient daily rest , 13 hrs ( 5 my choice ) , even vosa chap said make sure it’s not just you who carries the can , now charged with 1 x falsifying record ( whether they’ve clumped the 2 together I’ve no idea , but that’s it 1x charge , or that’s what form says , reason I asked ? Is because I’ve never been done for this before , what does 1a or a1 mean , 4 etc
But as I say it’s one incident ( yes I know it makes good reading for some too say x5, x 10 etc ) , but it not , so as I say if it’s a bad employee it 1 bad employee , and as for tearing around it was the opposite , I couldn’t get moving .
Anyway that’s enough for me , believe what you like , I’ve got most of the answers I need from the helpful ones on here