Health & Safety Breaches/ Disciplinary Hearings

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

First time posting in this bit but well I thought I would give it a go nothing left to lose. I posted earlier asking if anyone knew of any warehouse jobs etc near my area due to me maybe not being in a job after thursday.

I thought I would go into it as I know as me breaching health and safety was my doing, but my question is how can I be marked down for breaching health & safety when the person accusing me breaches the health & safety act every day he turns up for work!

Incident in question I was put onto store returns this morning, which is on one side of the warehouse where you are more or less left to get on with things so out of the way of moving traffic e.g forklift, moving people/pallet trucks etc. I thought as a one off to get my headphones in the phone and listen to some of my music to drown out the crap they play out the speakers but bare in mind I only had the one earphone in so I could hear people if they spoke to me or fire alarms as such etc…I went through the first 5 hours of my shift sailing through my work no problem with my headphone in working away but then said shift manager caught me with the earphone in as I was shifting some totes to the ADD to be processed etc. He told me to take the earphone out etc and clearly ■■■■ scared him seeing me knowing I’d be in a bit of crap for it expectedly but not as much as I actually did :confused:

My line manager pulled me into the office (by instruction of shift manager to give me a ‘talking’ too) and I explained to my line manager I only had the earphone in to block out the radio they play over the speaker system in the warehouse. But I took responsibility in that I shouldn’t have done it and it wouldn’t happen again and considered it as a verbal warning about it. So back to work as normal or so one thought to be pulled back into the office for the shift manager to give me my final ‘talking’ too. Of which he told me I was suspended with pay for breaching health & safety etc with having the earphone in my ear and when arranging to sort out a date to go back to ‘discuss’ the matter further I had problems as I had time booked off for next week (Family holiday) but was told to go in on Thursday at 1pm for this meeting.

I understand that it’s completely my fault for being a ■■■ and having the earphone in my ear, but my argument/s lay with the fact the shift manager breaches health & safety every day walking about the warehouse with no steel toed boots so how can he give me lectures about health & safety when he breaches the most basic H&S regulation in the warehouse and he isn’t the only person to do it because the general manager is just the same :unamused: And I’m pretty sure it isn’t one rule for one and a different rule for the other. Also the fact I was pulled into the office twice by different people about the same matter :confused: Surely if I was to be suspended I should have been suspended the first time I was pulled into the office not the second time especially right after each other :unamused:

I don’t expect sympathy from anyone just advice as to what I could do to potentially save my job if I can. And peoples opinions on what they would do. Obviously leave the earphones at home next time :laughing:

Cheers

Jonny :sunglasses:

2

The fact that the manager doesn’t always comply with site safety rules has no bearing at all on your alleged breach of said rules.

Do they actually have any stated policy or rule about headphones?

3

Get a copy of the employee handbook and read up on it.

The other thing is there are a lot of footwear types now that look like regular shoes or trainers but actually are toe-tectors. I’ve got a pair of nice looking shoes, smaller than the work boots and used for driving of non-trucks or if It’s [zb] hot and I’m not working in building sites. However, on more than one occasion I have been accused of not having ‘steelies’ because the metal detector wasn’t set off (!!!) and don’t seem to comprehend ‘composites’ or ‘that hard plastic stuff instead of metal’.

When you do go in for your disciplinary be careful to listen to what they say, and what the charges are. You can try and tell them later that you have already had a warning for this particular incident from xyz and query why it has gone to a formal disciplinary, but others here may advise against asking such things.

If they want to sack you for gross misconduct then try and appeal straight away, but you may need union or other support for that sort of thing.

You also need to learn to drown out the annoying music, it’s a skill but worthwhile if you can manage it. I learnt from screaming wailing kids on buses for a couple years, screaming abuse from passengers, spitting and threats from younger passengers and trashing the bus because they were young and impotent, well, young at least. If they couldn’t get a job it’s not my fault is it, but everything seemed to be…

So yeah, [zb] happens, we all make mistakes and we usually learn from them. If they’ve taken it past verbal then expect a written warning over it I guess…

4

I can tell you without a doubt that the manager in question does not have shoes that have toe tectors, they are the kind of shoes school kids wear amazon.co.uk/dp/B00576TY04/? … B00576TY04 bit like them. So I can guarantee they aren’t safety shoes.

But I’m assuming the sensible thing after the meeting (as I doubt they are going to sack me over this as what I’ve been told if anything it’ll be a written warning at most) will be to ask to swap to a different shift that way said manager isn’t going to try every trick in his handbook to give me the sack obviously hasn’t helped me giving him ammunition to do so but lessons learned and all that.

Also just out of curiosity, the person who caught me with the earphone in (said manager) is he allowed to do the investigation of the incident or does it have to be someone who didn’t witness it so they don’t try and fabricate things?? As I feel it’s a bit unfair him being allowed to do the investigation and make things out to be worse than what they are. The letter I was sent this morning had false facts stating I had ‘headphones’ in when I only had one in…doesn’t make it sound any better but that would assume I had both earphones in at the same time unaware of my surroundings when I only had 1 earphone in and was completely aware of what was going on around me :confused:

Doesn’t seem to quite add up IMO, maybe it’s just me being paranoid! :laughing:

Cheers

Jonny :sunglasses:

5

I have 3 sets of safety footwear.

1 pair are very clearly steel toe capped boots.

The other two you would not know without close scrutiny hat hey had any reinforced material in place.

1 set is JCB trainers. (OK so the manufacturers mark will give it away :slight_smile: )

And one set is a Black pair of School type slip on shoes. Try look very smart but have the toe caps in place.

6

I could guarantee if I ever got the opportunity to stand on my shift managers foot he would be thriving in pain I am very certain he doesn’t have steel toes in his shoes

But at least on the good side my shift manager is no longer in charge of the investigation at my request so at least it will be a fair case brought against me with any luck!

Cheers

Jonny :sunglasses:

7

jonnytruckfest:
I could guarantee if I ever got the opportunity to stand on my shift managers foot he would be thriving in pain I am very certain he doesn’t have steel toes in his shoes

But at least on the good side my shift manager is no longer in charge of the investigation at my request so at least it will be a fair case brought against me with any luck!

Cheers

Jonny :sunglasses:

Odds aren’t stacked against you quite so much.
Good luck on the outcome.

8

Well today was investigation day for my company to get my ‘version’ of events. Do companies really get this ■■■■ over such a stupid little blip? I’ve even spoke to previous employers who said being suspended over having an earphone in my ear is a little OTT . :unamused: I must just be special…either that or it’s someone abusing his/her power and trying to scare me ■■■■■■■■ :unamused: I did mention in this meeting about contacting my previous employers and what they said about the most I should have got is a verbal warning.

Either way the meeting went as thus

The first question was asked ‘can you give us your version of events’ I have to be honest I nearly burst out laughing thinking ‘are you ■■■■■■■ serious?!’ So I told them how it was, I was told to go on Store returns, I was out of the way I had one earphone in not two like stated in the letter so I wasn’t completely oblivious as to what was going on around me but I never thought it would cause any harm etc.

Then the questions of do you know its against company policy etc do you think its appropriate to wear the earphones in the warehouse giving the obvious yes/no answers.

Then the questions involving my manager and what was done in the situation at hand, so I told them how my line manager pulled me into the office saying that the shift manager shouted at the line manager saying along the lines of ‘you better have a ■■■■■■■ word with him before I personally walk him off of site’ according to what my line manager said to me in the office. and when I was sent back to work I thought that’s the end of the matter and I can get back to work and keep getting my numbers up. And how not even 5 minutes after I was pulled back into the office where I said/asked my line manager ‘Im assuming *** wants to give me a bollocking now’ to where I was greeted with a suspension notice. This point I said that’s more or less it to what happened regarding what was said, keeping things short and sweet so as to not take too much time.

They even asked how long I’d been having my earphones on in the warehouse, to where I mentioned it being the first time having them in ironically and that I knew it was a stupid thing to do but we all have moments of stupidity now and again isn’t just me that does it.

At the near end they asked if I had any comments to make myself, where I knew some people said not to but in a position where I thought I could be losing my job I haven’t much else to ■■■■■■■ lose. So I said ’ *** has some cheek to talk to me about health and safety when him and a few other people in that warehouse breach health & safety every day not wearing steel toe boots and I think you might find that’s a more punishable offence than to what I’ve done regardless of what position you are in the warehouse…and I do think that it did the trick as the reply was more or less ‘Errr yeah but we’re discussing about this situation not about anything else that may be breaching health & safety’ So I think they know if I get into ■■■■ for breaching Health & Safety quite a few more people will be in the ■■■■ too not just me and I think they’ll be much worse off than me!!

the last question was if I had a locker to keep my phone && that but I said having taken out a contract I didn’t want to leave a £400 phone left in a locker where things have been known to be taken and I think anyone could understand my thinking on that one…

So to put things into perspective…I’m back into work on the 13th of August, as they said they will be in touch over the next week or so to see what they are going to be doing about it whether they are going to be pursuing things any further :confused: So am I right in assuming that it’s either going to be a written warning at worst? As I wouldn’t have thought they’d have me back in if I was facing the chop…I’m just hoping they ‘find out’ that my shift manager was being a ■■■■ and abusing his power and should have given me a verbal warning and that he gets a warning for wasting company time/money…Well I can hope anyway :laughing:

But I have scheduled a meeting with the HR manager advised by one of the admin team with a list of things for both I and the HR manager of things that is concerning me as I did say I don’t want to be working with said manager as I want to put in for a transfer to a different shift either the other Tesco shift or the build a bear shift. So I’m hoping I can get a few things sorted out at least and hopefully have a better working life. I will say that there’s nothing wrong with the company itself, just the prick I work under.

I understand I was in the wrong, but having come to the conclusion the actions taken were drastic and over the top and in the process lost the company money and it gave me an extra day off that I didn’t really want.

Slightly relieved but extremely annoyed as well at how far I’ve been pulled on such a stupid matter.

Cheers

Jonny :sunglasses:

9

I was only obeying rules :laughing:

He said: “There are a lot of rules, oh my God. You can’t do anything. I was coming and wanted to bring my tablets in and they said I couldn’t. I asked why. It is just a rule. :exclamation:

“I had my skipping rope in my bag and they said I can’t bring it in. Why? It is just a rule. What if I need to take a rubber band inside to stretch? I can’t take it inside because it is a rule. :exclamation:

"It is just very small rules that don’t make any sense to me. (Before the 100m final) the guy was telling us to line up. We were about to race and we were being told to stand in a straight line. It is kind of weird.”

Rules, are made to be broken, like the 100 metre record

Usain Bolt 2012

10

The best outcome you could get out of this to have some kind of music played over some speakers. The problem is if you work with old ■■■■■ it will be Radio Three :stuck_out_tongue:

But if you are in a corner out of the way, a radio or CD player should be allowed, at a reasonable volume of course. I cannot work with out some kind of music, even in my home office there is something playing.

11

That’s essentially what I told them, I was out of the way away from the busy picking area and away from moving traffic so hardly a problem to other people. The music Itself was just about loud enough for me to hear. I never knew how sad people can get over something so minor and when they said that my manager not wearing safety boots hasn’t nothing to do with my ‘investigation’ but id of thought it would do with the manager supposed to be setting the example to us ‘lower down’ and if he’s seen not giving a ■■■■ about h&s it would rub off to those below.

Although imo I wouldn’t see this going further than a written warning :slight_smile: as it being my first offence ive been told I cant be sacked. So its a case of waiting and seeing what the outcome of this so called investigation is.

Hopefully waste of company time & money and said manager gets a warning himself! But so long as im still in a job I cant complain

Cheers

Jonny :sunglasses: