Bewick:
I can re-call attending a Lunch as a guest of ERF in about 79/80 and Peter Foden telling me “that the best favour us hauliers could do for ERF,was to stop banging on about wanting Gardner engined chassis and order ■■■■■■■ chassis and we were to be really,really helpful we should order RR engined chassis as they were plentiful and cheaper” He also told me that at that time ERF were producing about 3000 chassis annually,1000 of which were Gardner powered,1500 were ■■■■■■■ and 500 were RR the latter which were nearly all destined for the big Oil cos.etc.Now then who on this thread can explain to me that if the RR automotive diesel engine was so wonderful why wasn’t seen in numbers within the bit haulage fleets similar to the ■■■■■■■ penetration at the time ? And as for The British Army’s buying prowess via the MOD,don’t make me laugh,they regularly get “stuffed up” with all kinds of rubbish and at exhorbitant prices to boot ! 
Cheers Bewick.
GUY MOTORS
SUN SUMMER SOLSTICE TAROT CARD ILLUSTRATION - 21 St JUNE,THE LONGEST DAY - it is now Summertime 
:-
VALKYRIE replies:-
Secrets & Lies 
FAN -
It’s back on…
GUY MOTORS…But this post is actually mainly about the excellent Rolls-Royce Automotive Diesel Engines,the British Ministry of Defence’s excellent and discerning military equipment procurement,Royal Air Force Fylingdales BMEWS Station,etc,including John Lennon’s beautifully descriptive #9 Dream
My previous post explaines the objective facts about Rolls-Royce Automotive Diesel Engines,including the fact that at least most Rolls-Royce diesel engined-motor vehicle operators wisely knew that Rolls-Royce -later Perkins,Shrewsbury - made EXCELLENT diesel-oil engines for commercial vehicles,construction vehicles,military vehicles,rail vehicles and also diesel engines for industrial and marine applications.These engines had a very welcoming world-wide market,and many motor vehicle manufacturers fitted these engines,including Aveling-Barford,Atkinson,ERF,Euclid,Foden,Hayes,Le Tourneau-Westinghouse,Rotinoff,Scammell,Seddon,Seddon-Atkinson,Sisu,Thornycroft,Douglas,NCK Ransome Rapier Cranes,Vickers,Michigan,White,International,etc,etc
Operators of Rolls-Royce diesel-engined motor vehicles,included British Road Services,Ministry of Transport,Dixon,William Dobson of Edinburgh,Beresford,Leonard Green-Park Gate Iron & Steel Company,Wimpey,Amey Roadstone Company,Marples,Fine Fare Supermarkets,Sunter Brothers,Wynns,Pickfords,Public Works (Bristol) Ltd,Esso,Mobil,R.Hanson,Buckley Tankers,Pilkington Glass,United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority,ICI Ltd,Rowntrees,Allied Brewery,Freightliner,Glynn Morris,Pollock Scot Trans,etc,etc - such as this magnificent Pollock Atkinson long distance heavy duty freight trunking lorry :-
Atkinson Silver Knight TRS3266RR,Mk 1 Panoramic-cabbed, 6x2 Front and Pusher Steer Tractive Unit-Flat-bodied Articulated Lorry,KWS 666F,UNTOUCHABLE,of 1968,powered by a Rolls-Royce Eagle 220 Diesel Engine,and operated by Pollock (Musselburgh) Ltd,Scotland,fleet No.9.The driver is Wullie Grandison :-
Plus the facts that many Rolls-Royce diesel-engined motor vehicles were exported,and many Rolls-Royce diesel-engined lorries have become fairground vehicles,given great service to their showman owners! 
And the same applies to Rolls-Royce diesel-engined circus vehicles!
WHY ■■■■■■■ OUTSOLD ROLLS-ROYCE IN THE BRITISH COMMERCIAL VEHICLE MARKET.
The reasons why ■■■■■■■ sold more engines than Rolls-Royce in the British commercial vehicle
market were because;-
1.■■■■■■■ Engine Company was a much bigger company than the Rolls-Royce Oil - later Diesel -
Engine Division,on account that ■■■■■■■ had a bigger share of the engine market world-wide than
Rolls-Royce since ■■■■■■■ was an older established diesel engine manufacturer than Rolls-Royce.
2.Therefore,since ■■■■■■■ built far more engines than Rolls-Royce,it had a better Economy of
Scale than Rolls-Royce and could afford to offer cheaper engines and bigger discounts than
Rolls-Royce.
3.■■■■■■■ almost certainly had a more aggressive sales and marketing policy than Rolls-Royce.
4.Rolls-Royce entered the automotive,industrial,rail,marine diesel-oil engine market in 1952,with it’s superb,successful and extensive C-Range Diesel Engine range,and these powered everything from electricity generator sets,railcars,boats,to rigid eight-wheeler lorries,tank transporters,heavy haulage road locomotives,etc.It is possible that Rolls-Royce didn’t
concentrate hard enough on the automotive sector,even after the new Rolls-Royce Eagle Diesel Engine range was introduced in 1966.
5.However,as Trev-_H says,early Eagle engines "had reliability issues, head gaskets were one of them but they soon got on top of the problems and became a decent engine but like a lot of designs the faults of the first types created a reputation that was hard to shake off."UNQUOTE.
All the later versions of the Eagle diesel engine were very good.
6.However,ERF introduced the new and rationalised CP = Common Parts Heavy Lorry Range in 1984,
and ■■■■■■■ engines,Fuller gearboxes and Rockwell driving axles became the standard components
for this lorry range.Rolls-Royce-Perkins and Gardner diesel engines were still offered,but these
were virtually treated as special orders! 
- ridiculous! …but it was a boost to ■■■■■■■ engine
sales.
7.ERF’s new common parts policy was virtually carried on in the new ERF E-Series Heavy Motor
Lorry range of 1986,and a new addition to the range in 1988 was the E8 Tractive Unit that was
powered by the new ■■■■■■■ C-Series 8-litre engine - another boost to ■■■■■■■ engine sales.
8.And,as if all that was not enough,■■■■■■■ received at least three more boosts to engine sales:-
A.Along with the C-Series engine,■■■■■■■ also came out with the smaller B-Series 3.9-litre 4-cylinder and 5.9-litre 6-cylinder diesel engines,which powered minibuses,mini motorcoaches,
lightweight lorries,etc.
B.British and continental motorcoach and bus manufacturers,such as Leyland,MCW,Van Hool,Duple and Dennis began offering ■■■■■■■ diesel engines in their motorcoach and bus models in the 1980s.
C.In 1984 Gardner came out with the new 5LXCT,6LXDT and 6LYT Diesel Engine range,but,very unfortunatly,due to quality control problems ,the new range was generally a sales flop .
9.It should be noted that ■■■■■■■ also had yet another advantage over Rolls-Royce-Perkins and
Gardner:■■■■■■■ offered the popular 14-litre - 855 CID diesel engine with it’s model variants
over the years,but the capacity of the Rolls-Royce Eagle was 12.17-litre - 743 CID,which was
obviously too small for many operators and certain applications - hence the ■■■■■■■ 14-litre
engine was quite popular
10.Although the engine options for the Leyland Roadtrain T45 Heavy Lorry range were the Leyland
TL12 (dropped in 1982),■■■■■■■ and Rolls-Royce engines,the Rolls-Royce-Perkins Eagle Li and
Eagle 800 LE apparently became the main engines in the Roadtrain in the mid 1980s
But,unfortunatly,DAF took over Leyland Vehicles and dropped the Roadtrain - no more Rolls-Royce
(and ■■■■■■■ for that matter) -engined Roadtrains Ridiculous! By the way,what was even more
ridiculous,but also CRIMINAL! 
,was that the callous,cruel,ruthless,inhumane DAF mis-management
dropped the legendary SCAMMELL marque and models and made the Watford workforce redundant! DAF ought to have been SHOT!!! But get a load of this! :-It was around this time that Abnormal Load Engineering placed orders with the German company,Faun,for new heavy haulage ballast road locomotives! -
SCAMMELL COULD AND SHOULD HAVE BUILT THEM!
And all of the above are the main reasons why ■■■■■■■ sold more engines in the British
commercial vehicle market than Rolls-Royce-Perkins
BRITISH MINISTRY OF DEFENCE EQUIPMENT PROCUREMENT.
ROLLS-ROYCE DIESEL-ENGINED MILITARY VEHICLES.
Of course the military -and not just the British Ministry of Defence-Military Forces- make the
occassional mistakes in buying and/or wrongly specifying,or whatever,equipments,but generally
the British MOD-Military,including the MOD outfits of other countries,get it just right in
specifying,evaluating and buying equipment for military use.They have GOT to get it right,
since the destinies of countries and their peoples depend on proper and strong military defence.
A case in point was the BAE Nimrod AEW3 = Airborne Early Warning Aeroplane version of the Royal
Air Force’s Nimrod MR = Maritime Reconnaissance Aeroplane,and here is what WIKIPEDIA have to say
about the Nimrod AEW3:-
The Nimrod AEW project proved to be hugely complex and expensive for the British government, as a result of the difficulties of producing brand new radar and computer systems and integrating them successfully into the Nimrod airframe. Despite close to a decade’s work, the project was eventually cancelled, with the RAF instead purchasing new build Boeing E-3 Sentry Aeroplanes to fulfil the AEW requirement.UNQUOTE.
The following aeroplane is NOT duff - it’s EXCELLENT equipment! :-
Boeing E3D Sentry AEW.1 Aeroplane,Royal Air Force,landing at RAF Waddington -beautiful :-
And I know from personel experiance of very many hours of operating British Ministry of Defence-Royal Air Force/British Miltary radio equipments,including examples of the three magnificent radio receiver models in the photographs below,that they are NOT duff - they are EXCELLENT equipments! :-
Racal RA 17W High Performance MF-HF Communications Receiver - magnificent :-
Racal RA1772 High Performance VLF-LF-MF-HF Communications Receiver - beautiful :-
Collins R390A/URR High Performance MF-HF Communications Receiver - great :-
The following BMEWS equipment-systems were NOT and are NOT duff (for the reasons explained above and below) - they were and are EXCELLENT systems!
ROYAL AIR FORCE FYLINGDALES BMEWS = BALLISTIC MISSILE EARLY WARNING SYSTEM STATION.
Mk1:-
RAF Fylingdales BMEWS Three Radome AN/FPS-49A Tracking Radars.John Lennon,#9 Dream *-at 1:57 to 2:10 wonderfully describes the scene :-
Mk2:-
RAF Fylingdales BMEWS Tetrahedron -Pyramid- AESA = Active Electronically Scanned Arrays AN/FPS-126 PAVE**= Precision Acquisition Vehicle Entry PAWS**= Phased Array Warning System SSPAR =Solid State Phased Array Radar UEWR = Upgraded Early Warning Radar (I know that the full and very interesting official title is long-winded,but,like the military,I had to get the title just right! ) #9 Dream *,John Lennon :-
NOTE:-**PAVE PAWS - The PAVE part is also an abbreviation for PAVE = Precision Avionics Vectoring Equipment - which is also now an acronym as a prefix identifier for various systems.
RAF FYLINGDALES BMEWS Mk1 and Mk 2 EARLY WARNING RADAR SYSTEMS together in an air to ground photograph.Magic in the air -#9 Dream *,John Lennon,beautiful :-
From WIKIPEDIA:-
Royal Air Force Fylingdales BMEWS and Space Surveillance Station is part of the United Kingdom,British Government,Ministry of Defence,British Armed Forces,USA,NORAD = North American Air Defence,SSN = Space Surveillance Network,NSA,Echelon UNQUOTE.
RAF Fylingdales BMEWS Station,and other BMEWS stations in the Northern Hemisphere,have been in service since the 1962-1964 period - part of the Cold War era - giving NATO countries
early warning of thermonuclear attacks.The BMEWS also plays a major role in our Nuclear Deterrent policy
The NATO member countries,including the United Kingdom and the United States of America,and the above defence outfits,plus BMEWS equipment designers,suppliers and constructors,such as RCA and Raytheon,just had to get the BMEWS just RIGHT the FIRST TIME! And they DID!
They did NOT buy duff equipment! :The Ballistic Missile Early Warning System was and is a SUPERLATIVE early warning radar system! - both Mk 1 and Mk2!
RAF FYLINGDALES BMEWS RADOMES AND NYMR AND TRAIN on the beautiful Fylingdales-Goathland Moors -a delightfully surreal and beautiful scene -QUATERMASS style! John Lennon,#9 Dream * -at 3:48 to 4:01 wonderfully describes the scene :-
And another superb example of United Kingdom Ministry of Defence-British Military Royal Air Force PROCUREMENT:-The superlative leading edge technology Eurofighter Typhoon High Performance Supersonic Jet Fighter Aeroplane .Which is not only in service with the Royal Air Force,but is also in service with the air forces of Austria,Germany,Italy,Oman,Saudia Arabia and Spain:-
EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON T1 JET FIGHTER AEROPLANE,ZJ812,BK 29 SQUADRON.Rapidly climbing with the afterburners on.Magic in the air -#9 Dream *,John Lennon,beautiful :-
NOTE:*Both music on it’s own,and with lyrics,wonderfully describes emotions,actions,scenes,etc,and John Lennon’s beautiful #9 Dream wonderfully describes the above scenes,etc :-
*JOHN LENNON,#9 DREAM SONG RECORD - A PHOTOGRAPH FROM THE MUSIC VIDEO FILM:-
THE BRITISH MINISTRY OF DEFENCE ARE NOT THE ONLY DISCERNING DEFENCE OUTFIT.
Now,bearing in mind all of the above objective facts,the British Ministry of Defence - HM Military Army,Navy,Royal Air Force,etc,including the military of other countries,such as Australia,Dubai,Egypt,Israel,Jordan,Netherlands,Pakistan,Saudia Arabia,Switzerland,etc,bought hundreds of Rolls-Royce diesel-engined military vehicles.
ROLLS-ROYCE MILITARY VEHICLE DIESEL ENGINES - NEARLY SIXTY YEARS IN MILITARY SERVICE.
In the case of the British military,it began operating Rolls-Royce diesel-engined military vehicles in the mid-1950s,and now in 2013,nearly sixty years later,the British military is STILL OPERATING Rolls-Royce diesel-engined military vehicles! Which indicates the well-founded confidence that the British military have always had in the excellent Rolls-Royce diesel engines
The Foden DROPS,introduced in 1994,has a design life of thirty years,and I presume that the Scammell-Leyland DROPS,which entered service in 1990,has the same amount of design life.Both are front line vehicles,that have to be ultra-reliable in all conditions from on highway to adverse battleground terrrain,and both are powered by Rolls-Royce-Perkins diesel engines,as are other vehicles in the British military
The British MOD-Military,and other military outfits in the world,are almost certainly the toughest,most critical,most discerning and most demanding motor vehicle operators and buyers in the world,for all of the above reasons,including winning wars! Therefore,the Rolls-Royce diesel-engined military vehicles all passed the MOD’s very tough evaluation tests,they have given years of excellent and reliable service and proven that objectively that they are NOT duff vehicles - they are actually EXCELLENT motor vehicles - military vehicles!
OBJECTIVE FACT:ROLLS-ROYCE AUTOMOTIVE DIESEL ENGINES ARE EXCELLENT ENGINES.
Certain posts,including my posts,in this thread,and the majority of posts in my Rolls-Royce
Diesel Engines,later Perkins,thread prove objectively that Rolls-Royce-Perkins generally made
excellent automotive,marine,electricity generating,industrial,construction and military vehicle
engines. And anyone who dismisses the above Rolls-Royce diesel engines en masse as so-called
“rubbish” ,is obviously wrong and objectively cannot be taken seriously
THE BRITISH MILITARY HAVE BEEN CONTINUOUSLY OPERATING ROLLS-ROYCE DIESEL-ENGINED MILITARY
VEHICLES FOR NEARLY 60 YEARS.
Leyland-Scammell DROPS,powered by a Rolls-Royce - Perkins 350M Diesel Engine.Produced from 1989-1995.Still in service with the British Military,but is gradually being replaced by the
MAN HX77 8x8 Heavy Utility Tactical Lorry:-
LEYLAND-SCAMMELL S26 DROPS = DEMOUNTABLE RACK OFFLOAD AND PICKUP SYSTEM,MULTILIFT Mk4,8x6 MMLC = MEDIUM MOBILITY LOAD CARRIER LORRY,83 KH O3:-
Foden DROPS,powered by a Rolls-Royce - Perkins 350MX Diesel Engine.Produced from 1994 to 1997.
Still in service with the British Military,but is gradually being replaced by the MAN HX77 8x8 Heavy Utility Tactical Lorry:-
FODEN S10 S108M DROPS = DEMOUNTABLE RACK OFFLOAD AND PICKUP SYSTEM,MULTILIFT Mk4,8x6 IMMLC = IMPROVED MEDIUM MOBILITY LOAD CARRIER LORRY,AG 14 AA.Corbra Radar freight:-
Diamond T 981 6x4 Road Locomotive-Tank Transporter,BSL 932.
Preserved ex-British Military Army Tank Transporter,powered by a Rolls-Royce C6N Diesel Engine:-
Thornycroft Mighty Antar Mk3A 6x4 Tractive Unit-Articulated Tank Transporter Lorry.Preserved ex-British Army lorry,powered by a Rolls-Royce C8SFL-843 Diesel Engine:-
SCAMMELL COMMANDER 6x4 TRACTIVE UNIT-ARTICULATED TANK TRANSPORTER,53 KB 38.British Army.Powered by a Rolls-Royce CV12TCE Diesel Engine:-
Scammell Constructor,Fixedside Ballast Box-bodied,6x6 Road Locomotive,PSJ 815.Preserved ex-Royal Air Force lorry,powered by a Rolls-Royce C6NFL-142A Diesel Engine:-
ROLLS-ROYCE DIESEL-ENGINED SOUTH YORKSHIRE PTE DENNIS AND MCW OMNIBUSES.
In regard to 5Valve’s comments on the Dennis Dominator Double Decker Omnibuses operated by the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive-South Yorkshire’s Transport-Mainline-First Bus South Yorkshire.I am not disputing what you say,but I have it on very good authority that South Yorkshire P.T.E.also wanted a better engine in terms of power,torque and stress levels,compared to the underpowered Gardner 6LXB diesel engine,to power their new double decker buses in the hilly areas of their bus operations.So the South Yorkshire P.T.E. engineers wisely and discerningley specified the right engine,the Rolls-Royce Eagle 220 Diesel Engine,to power the
Dennis Dominator fleet,but most of the MCW Metrobus Double Decker Omnibuses of SYPTE were also powered by the Rolls-Royce Eagle.The rest,and a later batch of Dennis Dominators were powered by Gardner 6LXCT engines.A few MCW Metrobuses may have been powered by the underpowered Gardner 6LXB engine - two lone Leyland Olympians had these engines,501 and 502,but as these were not standard,these Leylands were sold to Chesterfield.
From 1979 to 1982,South Yorkshire P.T.E.bought a lot of new buses from Leyland…
Many members of the Dennis Dominator fleet were in service from 1981 to 2006 - and quite a few
are now preserved
MCW METROBUS DR 104/6 H46/31F 77-SEAT DOUBLE DECKER OMNIBUS,JHE 194W.Mainline-South Yorkshire’s Transport 1894.Powered by a Rolls-Royce Eagle 220 Diesel Engine:-
DENNIS DOMINATOR/ALEXANDER R-TYPE ROLLS-ROYCE EAGLE DIESEL-ENGINED DOUBLE DECKER BUSES,A304 AAK,2304,AND SDT 230Y,2230,of Mainline First South Yorkshire.Royal Air Force advertisement on 2304.Sheffield:-
ROLLS-ROYCE DIESEL-ENGINED FAIRGROUND VEHICLES.
Gardner diesel engines may be “The Showmans Friend”,but it hasn’t stopped many travelling showmen from buying fairground vehicles powered by other engines,such as ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ and Rolls-Royce-Perkins.For example,one of my showman friends,Charles Tuby,operated an ex-Plasmore Foden,QV photograph,from 1993 to 2001 and obtained years of trouble-free service from it,he then sold the Foden to another showman and it remained in service until July 2006 :-
FODEN HAULMASTER S10 Mk2 RR26/30,ROLLS-ROYCE EAGLE 265 DIESEL-ENGINED,GIRDERFRAME-BODIED 8x4 LORRY,BYG 178Y,Tuesday,1st March,1983.New to Plasmore,then Charles Tuby,European Dodgems,from 1993 to 2001 :-
SCAMMELL EXPLORER,ROLLS-ROYCE EAGLE DIESEL-ENGINED,6x6
SHOWMANS BALLAST ROAD LOCOMOTIVE,MMV 153P,EXPLORER.Harris’s Road Train:-
And since this is a Guy Motors thread:-
GUY BIG J4T,ROLLS-ROYCE EAGLE DIESEL-ENGINED,4x2 TRACTIVE UNIT,YND 83L-
As stated earlier in this post,the Perkins-Rolls-Royce Eagle Diesel Engine became the standard
engine for the Leyland Roadtrain tractive unit range,and ■■■■■■■ engines were optional,which
indicates the confidence that Leyland engineers rightly and wisely had in Rolls-Royce-Perkins
Eagle Diesel Engines
And here is a great example of a Rolls-Royce Eagle Diesel-engined Leyland Roadtrain long distance heavy duty freight trunking lorry,which is now a classic…although it is hard to believe that,in 2013,it is currently 27-years since - in 1986 - that the still modern-looking Leyland Roadtrain 20.35 Interstate was introduced…:-
LEYLAND ROADTRAIN 20.35 INTERSTATE T45,PERKINS-ROLLS-ROYCE EAGLE 800-350LE DIESEL-ENGINED,6x2 TWIN STEER BOXVAN-BODIED ARTICULATED LORRY,1986-1987.TRUCK Magazine :-
Pickfords Heavy Haulage operated a fleet of magnificent Scammell Constructor 6x6 Heavy Haulage Road Locomotives,powered by Rolls-Royce C-Range Diesel Engines :-
SCAMMELL CONSTRUCTOR 6x6 HEAVY HAULAGE BALLAST ROAD LOCOMOTIVES,X 3 of Pickfords,transporting a Parsons Transformer - spectacular! :-
ROLLS-ROYCE SPIRIT OF ECSTASY,ROLLS-ROYCE R-R MOTORCAR MARQUE BADGE AND RADIATOR - one of the most iconic images, prestigous marque and company names in the world :-
Cry God for Harry! England and Saint George! ,but William Shakespeare and his Henry V would have been very right to have added Rolls-Royce if Rolls-Royce had been around in the era of Henry V and William Shakespeare,since the hallowed and revered Rolls-Royce marque,along with other very English-British icons,such as the BBC,London,The Beatles,red London buses and motorcoaches,LNER Gresley A4 Pacific Streamlined Steam Railway Locomotive,MALLARD,the British Royal Family,Glastonbury Music Festival,Avro Vulcan Bomber Aeroplane,the Morris Mini Motorcar,Land-Rover and Range-Rover,Winston Churchill,The Dambusters,Avro Lancaster,Supermarine Spitfire,Concorde Supersonic Airliner,etc,are charismatic English-British archetypes and at least some of them have cult and legendary status
VALKYRIE
