Trev_H:
More probable that the boat anchor was too expensive and would outprice the J from it’s cheap and cheerful market !
Would the Guy have actually been cheaper than (say) a Borderer, Foden or ERF of roughly similar spec then? They used similar engines, gearboxes etc, though Foden did still make their own 'box and axles at that time, plus Foden also used the Motor Panels cab for a while which I imagine would be more expensive than Fodens own factory built ones?
Pete.
I’d bet that it was probably more a case of Leyland’s management realising early on that the turbocharged 6 cylinder idea was going to be the way to go.In which case it’s obvious that they’d want to steer their customers away from Gardner’s products and that it was going to be Rolls and ■■■■■■■ being the logical choice in that case.
Dave the Renegade:
I still stand by what information I was given, 40 were built with 39 going to Smith of Maddiston, and the other one going to a Scottish oil company, which M A Evans acquired when it was 6 months old.
Cheers Dave.
As Dave has provided his confirmation…again,as a driver of a 240 Percy powered Big J,I also provide my confirmation that I drove one of the mystical beasts during my driving years at Smith of Maddiston Manchester Depot.
Well there you go !!Full circle and back to square one I am not,for one moment,claiming that there was never ever a BigJ built with a Gardner 8LXB engine two or three possibly,and yes “CF” you cretin I would have liked to have run one on the Bewick fleet,I may even have driven it my-self but for Guy Motors to have got their hands on 40 8LXB’s is just pure fantasy,Leyland Motors would never have allowed it to happen,period.I would be pleased to hear “Saviems” expert “take” on this matter but as far as I recall from my years in the business the 8LXB was always in chronic short supply even to their long time favoured customers,i.e.Atkinson,ERF and Foden other minor customers got “the scraps”.Cheers Bewick.
Two or three for evaluation purposes would be plausible and who better to try them out than SoM, after all they did a lot of publicity shots for them.
Guy’s were masters at shoehorning all sorts of engines into their chassis’s, they even had a 350 ■■■■■■■ rigid ! but laying their hands on a lot of 240 Gardners was never going to happen, although they were big Gardner users for their bus output, the 180 in artic units was out of the game being rated at 30.5 ton gross.
Their 1974 sales brochures only ever listed ■■■■■■■ and Rolls for 32 ton operation !
I thought all Guy’s were beasties as I never fathomed out if my leg was in the way of the gear stick or the gear stick was in the way of my leg and the cellar grate made my other leg ache and you could not use the " cruise control " going over Brough with a 180 in
Bewick:
Well there you go !!Full circle and back to square one I am not,for one moment,claiming that there was never ever a BigJ built with a Gardner 8LXB engine two or three possibly,and yes “CF” you cretin I would have liked to have run one on the Bewick fleet,I may even have driven it my-self but for Guy Motors to have got their hands on 40 8LXB’s is just pure fantasy,Leyland Motors would never have allowed it to happen,period.I would be pleased to hear “Saviems” expert “take” on this matter but as far as I recall from my years in the business the 8LXB was always in chronic short supply even to their long time favoured customers,i.e.Atkinson,ERF and Foden other minor customers got “the scraps”.Cheers Bewick.
Which leaves the question as to exactly what happened to the possible 2 or 3.If you’d have been quick enough you might have been able to save them from the gas axe as someone else seems to have done.When they were probably all sent for scrap on the orders of Guy’s management to at least save answering the Leyland management’s questions as to who had the idea of spending a fortune to put such a big,expensive,gutless lump in the Big J when we they could have put a Rolls or ■■■■■■■ in it.
Seriously the saga of the possible fate of the 8 LXB powered Big J seems like a case of internal politics related to the ( correct ) change in thinking at Leyland at around the point when it was realised that it was time to move on from putting the outdated under powered Gardner in it’s products.
Trev_H:
Two or three for evaluation purposes would be plausible and who better to try them out than SoM, after all they did a lot of publicity shots for them.
Guy’s were masters at shoehorning all sorts of engines into their chassis’s, they even had a 350 ■■■■■■■ rigid ! but laying their hands on a lot of 240 Gardners was never going to happen, although they were big Gardner users for their bus output, the 180 in artic units was out of the game being rated at 30.5 ton gross.
Their 1974 sales brochures only ever listed ■■■■■■■ and Rolls for 32 ton operation !
You are “spot on” with your post Trev so I suppose we’ll just have to let the “believers” carry on and claim that along with the 40 240LXB Big J’s the world is really flat and the Moon is made of green cheese Cheers dennis.
Bewick:
Well there you go !!Full circle and back to square one I am not,for one moment,claiming that there was never ever a BigJ built with a Gardner 8LXB engine two or three possibly,and yes “CF” you cretin I would have liked to have run one on the Bewick fleet,I may even have driven it my-self but for Guy Motors to have got their hands on 40 8LXB’s is just pure fantasy,Leyland Motors would never have allowed it to happen,period.I would be pleased to hear “Saviems” expert “take” on this matter but as far as I recall from my years in the business the 8LXB was always in chronic short supply even to their long time favoured customers,i.e.Atkinson,ERF and Foden other minor customers got “the scraps”.Cheers Bewick.
Which leaves the question as to exactly what happened to the possible 2 or 3.If you’d have been quick enough you might have been able to save them from the gas axe as someone else seems to have done.When they were probably all sent for scrap on the orders of Guy’s management to at least save answering the Leyland management’s questions as to who had the idea of spending a fortune to put such a big,expensive,gutless lump in the Big J when we they could have put a Rolls or ■■■■■■■ in it.
Seriously the saga of the possible fate of the 8 LXB powered Big J seems like a case of internal politics related to the ( correct ) change in thinking at Leyland at around the point when it was realised that it was time to move on from putting the outdated under powered Gardner in it’s products.
“CF”,do you make a point of piling into any lost cause and “work” both sides at the same time the same as that chap in WW2,you know the double agent,I can’t just recall his name but you are probably related to him I guess,and I bet Gardner engines,in total,had a higher percentage of reliability than those poxy DD’s ever achieved.Cheers Bewick.
Tnuk member Richard stanier has a double drive big j 335 ■■■■■■■ in restoration ,perhaps he can shed some light on the 240 saga from his collection of brochure s ?
Dan Punchard:
Tnuk member Richard stanier has a double drive big j 335 ■■■■■■■ in restoration ,perhaps he can shed some light on the 240 saga from his collection of brochure s ?
The GUY Brochures may well have specc’d the 240 LXB ROF,but that didn’t mean you could get one,it was more of a “wish list” to boost Guys ego I believe,same as “CF” claims to be the prospective Monster Raving Looney Party candidate for Leatherhead,but he isn’t Bewick.
Dan Punchard:
Tnuk member Richard stanier has a double drive big j 335 ■■■■■■■ in restoration ,perhaps he can shed some light on the 240 saga from his collection of brochure s ?
Dan, R.K. Crisp ( part of Richard & Wallingtons ) group ran a 6x4 GUY Big J unit with a 335 ■■■■■■■ in this would be early 70s and I am sure there is a picture probably on bubblemans thread
Of the old stock that Richardsons got we had 16 of them on T reg’s,180’s with the awful 6 speed and air assisted steering they were probably 2-3 yrs old before they were put on the road and an earlier spec to the R’ reg ones (180,fuller box and power steering) from Guy’s. Within 18 months they showed bad signs of rust more so than the R reg’s which had Ziebart? rust treatment from new.
On route today I detoured through Beetham then across to crooklands ,there was a bloke on hymac near the railway bridge digging a hole I saw him pushing a Guy in with a long engine sticking out the cab !!!
Trev_H:
Of the old stock that Richardsons got we had 16 of them on T reg’s,180’s with the awful 6 speed and air assisted steering they were probably 2-3 yrs old before they were put on the road and an earlier spec to the R’ reg ones (180,fuller box and power steering) from Guy’s. Within 18 months they showed bad signs of rust more so than the R reg’s which had Ziebart? rust treatment from new.
You’ve just rattled my brain cell Trev,as I had a bloke come to the workshop and treat all our Guys and Seddons with the internal spray,not just sure what it was called but it wasn’t Ziebart as they were twice the price IIRC,However,I never kept these motors long enough to find out if they started to rot on the rear cab quarters,but they certainly hadn’t by the time I disposed of them ! Cheers Dennis.
Dan Punchard:
On route today I detoured through Beetham then across to crooklands ,there was a bloke on hymac near the railway bridge digging a hole I saw him pushing a Guy in with a long engine sticking out the cab !!!
I haven’t got a “ticket” for Hymac Dan but yes,it was me sat in the Big J cab,and I just managed to bail out before it was pushed into the hole at Ackenthwaite bridge Dennis.
Bewick:
You’ve just rattled my brain cell Trev,as I had a bloke come to the workshop and treat all our Guys and Seddons with the internal spray,not just sure what it was called but it wasn’t Ziebart as they were twice the price IIRC,However,I never kept these motors long enough to find out if they started to rot on the rear cab quarters,but they certainly hadn’t by the time I disposed of them ! Cheers Dennis.
Probably used your old engine oil Dennis, and charged you for it… To ask the question AGAIN, (Carryfast did give his theory earlier) were Big J’s cheaper to purchase than Foden, Atkinson and ERF which were basically similar in components? Gardner engines (same) Fuller box (same) etc, you bought all except the Foden so was there a vast price difference?
Bewick:
Well there you go !!Full circle and back to square one I am not,for one moment,claiming that there was never ever a BigJ built with a Gardner 8LXB engine two or three possibly,and yes “CF” you cretin I would have liked to have run one on the Bewick fleet,I may even have driven it my-self but for Guy Motors to have got their hands on 40 8LXB’s is just pure fantasy,Leyland Motors would never have allowed it to happen,period.I would be pleased to hear “Saviems” expert “take” on this matter but as far as I recall from my years in the business the 8LXB was always in chronic short supply even to their long time favoured customers,i.e.Atkinson,ERF and Foden other minor customers got “the scraps”.Cheers Bewick.
Which leaves the question as to exactly what happened to the possible 2 or 3.If you’d have been quick enough you might have been able to save them from the gas axe as someone else seems to have done.When they were probably all sent for scrap on the orders of Guy’s management to at least save answering the Leyland management’s questions as to who had the idea of spending a fortune to put such a big,expensive,gutless lump in the Big J when we they could have put a Rolls or ■■■■■■■ in it.
Seriously the saga of the possible fate of the 8 LXB powered Big J seems like a case of internal politics related to the ( correct ) change in thinking at Leyland at around the point when it was realised that it was time to move on from putting the outdated under powered Gardner in it’s products.
“CF”,do you make a point of piling into any lost cause and “work” both sides at the same time the same as that chap in WW2,you know the double agent,I can’t just recall his name but you are probably related to him I guess,and I bet Gardner engines,in total,had a higher percentage of reliability than those poxy DD’s ever achieved.Cheers Bewick.
Inconveniently for that line of thought in this case the choice seems to have been between turbocharged Rolls or ■■■■■■■ or naturally aspirated 8 cylinder Gardner.Obviously Leyland decided to go for the former two and ditch the Gardner just like most of the other Brit manufacturers did sooner or later.
Dan Punchard:
Tnuk member Richard stanier has a double drive big j 335 ■■■■■■■ in restoration ,perhaps he can shed some light on the 240 saga from his collection of brochure s ?
The GUY Brochures may well have specc’d the 240 LXB ROF,but that didn’t mean you could get one,it was more of a “wish list” to boost Guys ego I believe,same as “CF” claims to be the prospective Monster Raving Looney Party candidate for Leatherhead,but he isn’t Bewick.
To be fair that was only after UKIP threw me out for being too anti German and anti
French.
They used similar engines, gearboxes etc, though Foden did still make their own 'box and axles at that time, plus Foden also used the Motor Panels cab for a while which I imagine would be more expensive than Fodens own factory built ones?
I am not,for one moment,claiming that there was never ever a BigJ built with a Gardner 8LXB engine two or three possibly,and yes “CF” you cretin I would have liked to have run one on the Bewick fleet,I may even have driven it my-self 
but for Guy Motors to have got their hands on 40 8LXB’s is just pure fantasy,Leyland Motors would never have allowed it to happen,period.I would be pleased to hear “Saviems” expert “take” on this matter but as far as I recall from my years in the business the 8LXB was always in chronic short supply even to their long time favoured customers,i.e.Atkinson,ERF and Foden other minor customers got “the scraps”.Cheers Bewick.
and the cellar grate made my other leg ache and you could not use the " cruise control " going over Brough with a 180 in 
but yes,it was me sat in the Big J cab,and I just managed to bail out before it was pushed into the hole at Ackenthwaite bridge 