[zb]
anorak:
Carryfast:
It would be interesting to sit in the passenger seat while you show me how to do perfectly smooth clutchless changes by just releasing the accelerator as you struggle to shift it into neutral between the time that the transmission loading changes from forward over to overrrun.
You apply a light load to the stick. It slips out with ease. I have done it in cars and lorries. On a car (synchro) 'box, I may dip the clutch pedal briefly, as I select the next gear. Why waste time wearing out the clutch and its actuation mechanism, if it is not necessary?
Carryfast:
Then you can sit there while I show you how to do the job properly and then how much faster the same process can be done using the clutch properly to make proper,by the book,double de clutched changes.Although somehow I doubt that you’d be able to understand the difference. 
Have you ever driven a vehicle, of any type? There are quite a few experienced drivers on here, and you disagree with all of them, about everything, all of the time.
So you’re saying that you can just release the accelerator using clutchless shifts in the same way as you could by de clutching the transmission first and having done so it’s then just a case of ‘applying a light load to the gear stick’ with a transmission that’s now under reverse loading having instantaneously changed from forward loading to reverse overunn when you released the accelerator and you’ve then got the nerve to ask me if I’ve ever driven a vehicle of any type.When your idea seems to be all about saving a penny of a bit of wear on the clutch mechanism and spending a pound on a zb’d up transmission,because not content with just using the short cut of clutchless shifts you then don’t even seem to know how to do them properly to at least give the transmission a chance.
But no I don’t know of any experienced drivers who could make any acceptable case that proper double de clutched gear shifts are an incorrect way of driving whereas the jury has always been out as to the arguable idea of using clutchless changes including any driving test conducted by any ‘experienced’ examiner during the days when the type of trucks and transmissions being discussed here were/are in widespread use.
youtube.com/watch?v=5XxuM75a … re=related 4.04-4.38 Nothing about clutchless changes being ok according to that.
youtube.com/watch?v=9_9kZB5-MyM Nor that but what would they know compared to your expertise. 
Piffle^^^^^^.
Let’s get back to the Guy/Gardner stuff. Has anyone managed talk to that bloke on Flickr- the GL Baker driver with the 240-badged J4 photo?
[zb]
anorak:
Piffle^^^^^^.
Let’s get back to the Guy/Gardner stuff. Has anyone managed talk to that bloke on Flickr- the GL Baker driver with the 240-badged J4 photo?
Aye “■■■■■■■ anorak” “CF” has probably never seen a Guy Big J never mind driven one eh! Cheers Bewick.
[zb]
anorak:
Piffle^^^^^^.
Let’s get back to the Guy/Gardner stuff. Has anyone managed talk to that bloke on Flickr- the GL Baker driver with the 240-badged J4 photo?
which Flickr member is that?
hiya,
I rarely used the clutch pedal after initial move off, in fact I brought an ERF
Gardner engined job home from Glasgow to Durham with the snapped off
clutch pedal lying in the passenger footwell the engine stop got a bit of stick
coming through the city and no doubt the starter motor got a bit warm but
arrived back at home workshops without incident, proper driver eh’.
thanks harry, long retired.
I have to agree with Carryfast 
, just pulling the lever into netral without declutching puts a massive strain on the gearbox internals unless caught just right. I remember reading a test report of a Eaton/Fuller equipped truck and the Fuller test driver used the clutch to disengage the gear and then just let the gearlever rub lightly against the next gear and it would feed itself into mesh, this was how I did it for 20+ years with no problems. The Sed Ak 400 I drove you couldn’t get the box out of cog without the clutch anyway, it would just hang in gear until I used the clutch although when the hydraulics went I HAD to bring the thing back from Meriden laden without it but it was heavy going and my arm ached for a week!!!
Pete.
fryske:
[zb]
anorak:
Piffle^^^^^^.
Let’s get back to the Guy/Gardner stuff. Has anyone managed talk to that bloke on Flickr- the GL Baker driver with the 240-badged J4 photo?
which Flickr member is that?
Here’s the link again. “barkingbil” is the man’s name.
flickr.com/photos/81958847@N08/8509946680/
I’ve had fullers in my motors for the last 26 years and still drive one with a 13 speed, fantastic gearboxes and I’ve never had to repair one yet, using the clutch or without they are a pleasure to drive.
Bewick:
Carryfast:
Bewick:
This thread has got a bit too heavy (technical) for me,I used to just change “up or down” with care,and never wore out a clutch or a gearbox ! But when “CF” comes on “spouting” a load of bollox the thread is obviously nearing the end of sensible discussion !! So I will freely admitt that there must have been,NO, have been numerous 8LXB engined Big J’s manufactured,so many in fact that they were thicker than flies on a cows arse at the height of British summer !!Cheers Bewick.
Blimey Bewick it’s just simple novice driver stuff.So not only loads of Gardner 8LXB powered Gardners but all of them could only be driven correctly by not using the clutch when changing gear.Especially if those clutchless changes weren’t carried out using zb’s method of just releasing the accelerator without declutching the transmission first and then applying light pressure to the gear lever to put it into neutral during an upshift especially when it was fully freighted and maybe going up a slight incline. 
I’d have loved to have seen you behind the wheel coming up “The nest” out of Keswick with 20ton of Rail or Pig Iron from Workington,and then [zb] about with the gears on a Big J,as you describe,well as long as it wasn’t a Bewick motor that is!! Cheers Bewick.
Since when was driving a truck properly using the clutch considered as zb’ing about with the gears.The fourth one is probably being driven by someone who’s listened to zb.
youtube.com/watch?v=dOx1-CInfzY
youtube.com/watch?v=FVE8s5aXkQs
youtube.com/watch?v=Z6WidCrECIk
youtube.com/watch?v=lPjpEutj0cc
Did Guy ever offer a 240 Gardner engine option in their Big J and if so as anyone got a side view photo with the engine sticking out the back■■?!!
Kev73:
What gearbox did those BigJs have? I read somewhere that the later ones had
fullers,yet on here,many say the Gardner/Fuller combination didn’t really work?
The 240 Percy Guy’s had Fuller boxes,at least the ones that were based in Manchester did,not sure of the rest of the Depots gearbox specification though,probably Fuller.
David
Trev_H:
I only ever used the clutch to pull away and when coming to a stop, with the revs right you could change fast without it.
Trev,
Most of SoM 220 ■■■■■■■ Guys were just like that,I remember one particular motor,as you say no clutch required on the move,like lightning the change,never tried it on the 240 Guy though so cant comment.
David
steady on dennis , if you keep getting stressed you will be up in harry’s league in the amber nectar consumption , then ann will cut your spends down . cheers , dave
rigsby:
steady on dennis , if you keep getting stressed you will be up in harry’s league in the amber nectar consumption , then ann will cut your spends down . cheers , dave
Now I ask you Dave,when you are given “nowt” by 'er who must be obeyed" how can it be cut !! Cheers Dennis.
man up dennis , i’m still on 10bob a week and i won,t accept any cuts no matter how she complains , oh , and i get a five bob bonus at christmas , cheers , dave
