kr79:
Carryfast the reason the British truck industury failed is the products fell behind what was on offer else where. I’ve got a soft spot for fodens a lot of my early driving was in the foden 4000 range but that and the contempary erf felt like a kit car build wise where scania Volvo and merc had build quality decent quality car.
Great driveline but the whole package didn’t cut the mustard.
Not according to the colonial markets which is where,because of it’s historical,more sensible (sane),buying habits,I’ve always preferred to base my views on not the British market.I think in that case it was dropped because of the obvious in house competition between two similar products and the Americans/Australians finally woke up to the fact that they were helping the Brits to compete with themselves.But I don’t think it was dropped because it’s customers weren’t demanding it.
I’d say more like brand loyalty. I worked for and know people who were foden men until the day they stoped making them. In our line of work they were a great workhorse but just wasn’t quite up to the league of the swedes and Germans drivelines yes but as a whole product never until they fitted the daf type cab. The old 4000 cab was like comparing a garden shed to a house.
kr79:
Carryfast the reason the British truck industury failed is the products fell behind what was on offer else where. I’ve got a soft spot for fodens a lot of my early driving was in the foden 4000 range but that and the contempary erf felt like a kit car build wise where scania Volvo and merc had build quality decent quality car.
Great driveline but the whole package didn’t cut the mustard.
Not according to the colonial markets which is where,because of it’s historical,more sensible (sane),buying habits,I’ve always preferred to base my views on not the British market.I think in that case it was dropped because of the obvious in house competition between two similar products and the Americans/Australians finally woke up to the fact that they were helping the Brits to compete with themselves.But I don’t think it was dropped because it’s customers weren’t demanding it.
I’d say more like brand loyalty. I worked for and know people who were foden men until the day they stoped making them. In our line of work they were a great workhorse but just wasn’t quite up to the league of the swedes and Germans drivelines yes but as a whole product never until they fitted the daf type cab. The old 4000 cab was like comparing a garden shed to a house.
No more like the Brit customers have just never had a clue about how to spec a truck except in very rare cases which is what you’re confusing with ‘brand loyalty’.The only way they could compete in the colonies was by being good enough to compete with Kenworth the cab issue was an easy fix and the engine and driveline stayed the same as always .Unlike the typical,predictable,Brit idea of Scania or Volvo with synchro box.(After they eventually realised that a Gardner powered Foden with 6 speed DB was no good).Although nothing changes in that most Brits still think that the way to drive a truck is to use as few gears as possible and run it up to peak power in every gear.
My old guvnors were right in thinking that the Brit market’s customer base has always been a case of no hopers with a few exceptions that proved the rule.
Although having said that the Foden in the ad probably would have been better with a bit more power than just 450 at 55 t gross but which,contrary to Bewick’s ideas,shows how good a CAT engine actually is.
While this shows that even the colonial markets now seem to be losing the plot.
Why didn’t paccar put a kenworth style cab on a foden?
Bit rich a bloke who worked at a defunct fire engine factory and night trunking telling a man like bewick who had 100 odd lorrys on the road and was signing the cheques he didn’t have a clue what he was doing. Fact is all the British motor industury from motorbikes to trucks rested on there laurels and didn’t adapt.
I’d bet if bewick was mad enough to start again today it wouldn’t be a 730 scania going on the road either.
kr79:
Why didn’t paccar put a kenworth style cab on a foden?
Bit rich a bloke who worked at a defunct fire engine factory and night trunking telling a man like bewick who had 100 odd lorrys on the road and was signing the cheques he didn’t have a clue what he was doing. Fact is all the British motor industury from motorbikes to trucks rested on there laurels and didn’t adapt.
I’d bet if bewick was mad enough to start again today it wouldn’t be a 730 scania going on the road either.
You can bet that an old V8 Scania would be closer to the top of his list now than an old Gardner 240/265 powered SA though.
That’s only because the Ozzie type locally produced Kenworth option isn’t there though.
kr79:
Now who’s been ridiculous comparing a 265 seddon Atkinson with an r 730 scania. Like saying a shire horse could win the grand national
I wasn’t comparing it to the 730 I was comparing it to any V8 Scania ever built,of which,according to bma,there’s still plenty out there earning their operators a living unlike any 265 Gardner powered SA’s.No surprise that Bewick did actually run a few after ditching the boat anchor powered Brit heaps.
leylandlover:
Kr79,You are so right,I also saw the demise of the motorcycling industry.
Or maybe just a question of taste between buying a zb kamikaze overpowered Jap two stroke that was worn out after a few miles or a decent bike assuming the aim of riding a bike is to get there in one piece while enjoying the scenery and being fast enough.As opposed to in the ditch or wrapped round a lampost having lost the thing or not being able to stop it at bonkers speeds.
Check out the comments nothing there about it being a zb product of the British bike manufacturing industry.
It’s ironic how the Brits seemed to be all about having loads of power in something that doesn’t need it and zb all in something that does and again the bike issue proves that it was the customer base that lost the plot not the British manufacturers.
I would imagine that a Gardner coupled to a DB six speeder would be a little sluggish, we had a Sed Ak 400 with the six speed box but that was soon changed to a DB 8 speed range change that improved it slightly. It was Foden’s 12 speed box that made the difference, at least you could change up on hill’s instead of being stuck in a low gear which was likely with the DB setup?
windrush:
I would imagine that a Gardner coupled to a DB six speeder would be a little sluggish, we had a Sed Ak 400 with the six speed box but that was soon changed to a DB 8 speed range change that improved it slightly. It was Foden’s 12 speed box that made the difference, at least you could change up on hill’s instead of being stuck in a low gear which was likely with the DB setup?
Pete.
Just to get away from “CF”'s bollox for a moment,IIRC the reason Seddons had the 240 LXB de-rated to 200BHP was because of the DB 6 speed they used,but as they never built very many I suppose it was the cheapest option for them ! Cheers Bewick.
Msieu Saviem I wonder if you realised when you started this thread what a Pandoras box you had opened, I doubt it. Everyones friend ie Lord Stokes s deputy Carryfast will dispute every word said in defence of Gardners products. In there heyday a 730 bhp Scania was nt on anyones drawing board nor for normal road application were his beloved Americans, lets face it why do you need these Mega hp motors in the UK unless you re on STGO.They re more than likely owned by ODs who have nt got the sense they were born with, look what I ve got isn t she lovely, 56 mph who gets there quickest, everyone is there together, no one changes gear on m ways any more we ve all got aminimum of 400hp so there are nt any hills anymore, I think i ve had my last look at this thread or at least made my last comment I ll content myself with my beloved330bhp F89. good night all Crow.
I was talking to a well known livestock haulier from Ludlow,at Gaydon Retro show.As the new Volvo FH16 was on display with 750bhp.I asked him do they need all this power. And he answered,no way ours are chipped to 500bhp and that’s plenty.
This is a man that Saviem should know and has ran big Volvo’s into europe for over 40 years.
Cheers Dave.
Dave the Renegade:
I was talking to a well known livestock haulier from Ludlow,at Gaydon Retro show.As the new Volvo FH16 was on display with 750bhp.I asked him do they need all this power. And he answered,no way ours are chipped to 500bhp and that’s plenty.
This is a man that Saviem should know and has ran big Volvo’s into europe for over 40 years.
Cheers Dave.
Hello Dave, yes,…and I used to tease him " that 300hp was all he really needed!! Sadly my life, and love stopped at the 330hp F89, what a lovely lorry,…easy revs, …super gearbox, (that even an iconic idiot that CF could use)!! short enough to be a gem to manouver,…and with a firm residual value!! (bit like anything with an 8LXB as a power unit…but not with that awfull David Brown Range change box…“the screamer, par excellence”!!! Cheerio for now.
Dave the Renegade:
I was talking to a well known livestock haulier from Ludlow,at Gaydon Retro show.As the new Volvo FH16 was on display with 750bhp.I asked him do they need all this power. And he answered,no way ours are chipped to 500bhp and that’s plenty.
This is a man that Saviem should know and has ran big Volvo’s into europe for over 40 years.
Cheers Dave.
I think that’s exactly what I’ve been saying if anyone could be bothered to actually read what I’ve said and (try to) understand it.At which point that Volvo motor is turning over at about 1,100 rpm which the driver could have done by just short shifting the thing at those revs without spending the money on altering the chip to rev limit it the same as the driver could do.Limited to that engine speed you can also bet that it’s a lot more economical on fuel at 44 t gross than either a 265 Gardner running at 32 t gross would be or the Crows screaming F 89.
Which,of course,goes against all the bs about upshifting at peak power in each gear which certain ‘experts’ think is the right way to drive a truck.
Dave the Renegade:
I was talking to a well known livestock haulier from Ludlow,at Gaydon Retro show.As the new Volvo FH16 was on display with 750bhp.I asked him do they need all this power. And he answered,no way ours are chipped to 500bhp and that’s plenty.
This is a man that Saviem should know and has ran big Volvo’s into europe for over 40 years.
Cheers Dave.
Hello Dave, yes,…and I used to tease him " that 300hp was all he really needed!! Sadly my life, and love stopped at the 330hp F89, what a lovely lorry,…easy revs, …super gearbox, (that even an iconic idiot that CF could use)!! short enough to be a gem to manouver,…and with a firm residual value!! (bit like anything with an 8LXB as a power unit…but not with that awfull David Brown Range change box…“the screamer, par excellence”!!! Cheerio for now.
And in your ‘expert’ opinion that is going to be more economic running at 38 t gross,let alone 40-44 t,than something which puts out over 500 hp at 1,100 rpm .
Lawrence Dunbar:
C/F Why Dont You Change your initials to F/O, & go & enjoy your useless crap elsleware & do us all a a treat, Regards larry.
Don’t fret yer’sel Larry,when “CF” finds Saviems new Bedford thread he’ll be off and onto it like a Blue arsed fly !! I do believe that Saviem has done it deliberately so as to lead him away from the Gardner thread !! Cheers Dennis.
And in your ‘expert’ opinion that is going to be more economic running at 38 t gross,let alone 40-44 t,than something which puts out over 500 hp at 1,100 rpm .
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Here we are again, a silly boy, in charge of a keyboard, who has never experienced “real” driving, let alone the “joys” of business, I wonder if his guardians do not know of “parental locks” on a keyboard■■?
.Unlike the typical,predictable,Brit idea of Scania or Volvo with synchro box.(After they eventually realised that a Gardner powered Foden with 6 speed DB was no good).Although nothing changes in that most Brits still think that the way to drive a truck is to use as few gears as possible and run it up to peak power in every gear. 
.