.
cf Icant believe that you ve just written that absolute heap of camel droppings what a typical red communist 60s 70s Arthur ■■■■■■ Scargill view of the country your s but not for much longer if you keep speaking like that, who gave the World democracy forget the Greeks. The civilised world believe it or not operates on the British parliamentary system that includes the Krauts and your country cousins across the the pond, Rule Brittania with or with out Gardner,pour yourself a glass of Bourbon and reflect on the fact that Scotch is only distilled in Scotland any thing else is a poor imitation, have a peaceful night thinking about these things, you can apply for your green card tomorrow the US is so short of fire appliance designers that they re giving green stamps for the local supermarketto each successful applicant, you ve won hands down. Via con Dios Crow.
geoffthecrowtaylor:
cf Icant believe that you ve just written that absolute heap of camel droppings what a typical red communist 60s 70s Arthur ■■■■■■ Scargill view of the country
So you mean the country would have been better off run by a load of Thatcherite bankers calling miners and factory workers stupid and greedy. 
I always thought that’s what happened anyway and look where it’s got the place. 
Carryfast the reason the British truck industury failed is the products fell behind what was on offer else where. I’ve got a soft spot for fodens a lot of my early driving was in the foden 4000 range but that and the contempary erf felt like a kit car build wise where scania Volvo and merc had build quality decent quality car.
Great driveline but the whole package didn’t cut the mustard.
I think that almost everyone(with the exception of Carryfast)agrees that Gardner engines were the best in their day for reliability and economy.Having said that,their days are long gone.It’s easy to look back with rose tinted spectacles and extol the merits of them.The truth is that they have been superceded by superior modern engines which deliver better efficiency and economy.The arguments as to the reason for their demise will rumble on and on ad infinitum,with no one clear cut reason.It was a culmination of many things,which have been chewed over ad nausium and are all academic now.It seems to me that this thread should now be transferred to the nostalgic.
i think that’s it in a nutshell tony , i drove gardner fodens off and on for nearly 20 years and earned good money doing it . then i was given a foden with an e290 big cam ■■■■■■■ , what a revelation ! rose tinted glasses went out the window all that power and a heater that worked . gardeners went the same way as horses and carts , it’s called progress , cheers , dave
I only drove with one Gardner powered truck,it was a Atki with a 150 gardner.I had previously been driving a Volvo F86.Me and the Crow worked for Spingfield Transport in Trafford Park.We were paid by the 26 mile/hour,so, for every 26 miles we drove we got an hours pay.For us a fast motor was the order of the day.I was the first driver to earn over 100 pounds a week,which in 1973 was a considerable sum but also a lot of work(2 log books etc.).To go from that to a 150 Gardner whose top speed was 43mph and wouldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding when it was fully freighted was a big come down.From my point of view as a driver give me a volvo every time.From the bosses point of view a Gardner may have been more economical on fuel, but we got through a lot more work and consequently probably earned more for the company.In their hay day Gardners were the bees knees,but as soon as the Scandinavians came into the market their days were numbered.
Hiya i don,t see where all this ploding gardner comes from, harrsons of milton bought
off malcom harrison a ex richards and osborne 64g erf. wcv 126 j 47mph,
gordon scraped and sprayed the chassis ■■■■ a high ratio (of the shelf)diff in her
and painted the cab… 73 mph whoosh. he never touched the engine apart from the filters.
all harrisons lxb,s was 70 mph lorries. the 8lxb,s was 65mph i had a atki 8lxb that was 70 plus.
i know they was doomed when the comfort of the sweeds arrived but before the sweeds come.
what could you buy. AEC or leyland . gardner could,nt make enough engines as it was they still
needed to make the boat engines. ■■■■■■■ come and fell on there feet in the early 70,s…
the early ■■■■■■■ was to heavy on fuel.
carryfast you have to remember untill 1964 the speed limit for lorries was 28 mph. what
was wrong with your ploding gardner what was perhaps doing 34 mph, was.nt it somthing to do with
gearboxes / diffs and the law. what use would your Detroit/ bedford be at 28 mph you would,nt
keep the revs up and the plodders would sail past you. PLUS remember just how many lorries was on
the road no motorways when the gardner was adapeted for road use.
carryfast did you ever go to bikenhaed in the 60■■ bibby still used a steam engine unit untill 1968
around the dock area. you don,t seem to want to know about how thing have devloped
you just thought english manufactures should have fitted a v8 two stroke in a 1930 lorry
what had cable brakes.
was,nt many yank trucks PETROL sidevale engines up untill the 60,s
wow they,d have some pulling power would,nt they. was,nt the detroit used more in the milatry,
that was perhaps companies would rather stick with petrol engines what they knew more about
than a risky diesel engine
Hiya i see detroit engines have been made for 75 years, they started productioun in 1937.
gardners had made engines for 69 years before dd even started production. poor old ernie foden
would have been in the s…t as he needed engines 4 years before carryfast could have come up with
the goods, not to mention the bit of water between detriot and sandbach
John
Carryfast:
geoffthecrowtaylor:
cf Icant believe that you ve just written that absolute heap of camel droppings what a typical red communist 60s 70s Arthur ■■■■■■ Scargill view of the countrySo you mean the country would have been better off run by a load of Thatcherite bankers calling miners and factory workers stupid and greedy.
I always thought that’s what happened anyway and look where it’s got the place.
Last month’s manufacturing trade deficit with the rest of the world was just over £10bn. The service sector, on the other hand, made about about seven and a half billion profit. I wonder what services can be exported- maybe it is financial services? You should be thanking the bankers, cf. Their good work is keeping you retired revolutionaries in false teeth, winter fuel coupons and bus passes.
wasn,t it so that yankee,s used petrolengines whit out doubths ,until the energycrices 74 and in heavy delivery til 80,s.cheers benkku
I agree with 3300 John regarding the ‘plodding’ tag. Our 180 LXB powered Fodens ran from Ashbourne down to Kent, Essex, Somerset and even the Isle of Wight on a regular basis, there and back in the day. I dont recall Allinsons of Stockport Foden’s doing much ‘plodding’ over Long Hill or the Cat and Fiddle either, Rigsby can confirm that! 
W.H Phillips of Wirksworth also got a good days work done with their Atkinson eight leggers, possibly as much as you could do nowadays with modern tackle, though these days it would possibly be accomplished with a fresher driver at the days end!
Pete.
windrush:
I agree with 3300 John regarding the ‘plodding’ tag. Our 180 LXB powered Fodens ran from Ashbourne down to Kent, Essex, Somerset and even the Isle of Wight on a regular basis, there and back in the day. I dont recall Allinsons of Stockport Foden’s doing much ‘plodding’ over Long Hill or the Cat and Fiddle either, Rigsby can confirm that!Pete.
Well,I can only say as I find.I worked for Bridgewater Transport(Port of Manchester) for a little while.The Atkinson that I drove was a real plodder,it had a 150 in it with a DB 6 speed.If I was fully loaded with 20tons I even had to change down a gear going over Keele bank.The Swedes could beat it hands down.They may have been ok for some that had been re specked,but mine was a heap and I couldn’t get rid of it fast enough for an ERF with a ■■■■■■■■
hiya pete.i had a 12 speed s39 with a 180 in her… leek to haydock race corse 1hour 5mins on my way north.
burton services 2 hours 15mins still going north to alloa glass. i could get back to the pops in a day .
no plodding. we used to do 3 loads newark peterbourough good days work only 40 mph in those days
on dual carridgeway and many more roundabouts then nowadays.
i used to do leek… load burton down the 38 through brum(no spagatti then) past longbridge onto the M5 down to bridgewater,
M5 stopped their. through bridgewater onto taunton over to barnstaple tip and back the same night. did that for a month
NO PLODDING belive me
John
Hiya i had DVT496J at harrisons that was my first lorry for them, 205 ■■■■■■■ and a 10 speed fuller 54mph
uphill and down dale. but god what a racket. did,nt use ear defenders . oh how i wish i had done.
John
kr79:
Carryfast the reason the British truck industury failed is the products fell behind what was on offer else where. I’ve got a soft spot for fodens a lot of my early driving was in the foden 4000 range but that and the contempary erf felt like a kit car build wise where scania Volvo and merc had build quality decent quality car.
Great driveline but the whole package didn’t cut the mustard.
Not according to the colonial markets which is where,because of it’s historical,more sensible (sane),buying habits,I’ve always preferred to base my views on not the British market.I think in that case it was dropped because of the obvious in house competition between two similar products and the Americans/Australians finally woke up to the fact that they were helping the Brits to compete with themselves.But I don’t think it was dropped because it’s customers weren’t demanding it. 
3300John:
Hiya i don,t see where all this ploding gardner comes from, harrsons of milton bought
off malcom harrison a ex richards and osborne 64g erf. wcv 126 j 47mph,
gordon scraped and sprayed the chassis ■■■■ a high ratio (of the shelf)diff in her
and painted the cab… 73 mph whoosh. he never touched the engine apart from the filters.
all harrisons lxb,s was 70 mph lorries. the 8lxb,s was 65mph i had a atki 8lxb that was 70 plus.
i know they was doomed when the comfort of the sweeds arrived but before the sweeds come.
what could you buy. AEC or leyland . gardner could,nt make enough engines as it was they still
needed to make the boat engines. ■■■■■■■ come and fell on there feet in the early 70,s…
the early ■■■■■■■ was to heavy on fuel.
carryfast you have to remember untill 1964 the speed limit for lorries was 28 mph. what
was wrong with your ploding gardner what was perhaps doing 34 mph, was.nt it somthing to do with
gearboxes / diffs and the law. what use would your Detroit/ bedford be at 28 mph you would,nt
keep the revs up and the plodders would sail past you. PLUS remember just how many lorries was on
the road no motorways when the gardner was adapeted for road use.
carryfast did you ever go to bikenhaed in the 60■■ bibby still used a steam engine unit untill 1968
around the dock area. you don,t seem to want to know about how thing have devloped
you just thought english manufactures should have fitted a v8 two stroke in a 1930 lorry
what had cable brakes.
was,nt many yank trucks PETROL sidevale engines up untill the 60,s
wow they,d have some pulling power would,nt they. was,nt the detroit used more in the milatry,
that was perhaps companies would rather stick with petrol engines what they knew more about
than a risky diesel engine
So the conclusion of all that is why bother with making more powerful engines when all they needed to do was keep raising the final drive ratio of a 150 (who needs a 180 ) Gardner powered truck to whatever average speed the customer wants.In which case there’s been loads a money wasted over the years on the development of more powerful turbocharged engines.When just increasing the gearing would have done the same job.
As for your argument about Detroit motors you’re saying that in the most critical situation of being in a war the US military would be happy to use a ‘risky’ unreliable motor 
.
bma.finland:
wasn,t it so that yankee,s used petrolengines whit out doubths ,until the energycrices 74 and in heavy delivery til 80,s.cheers benkku
So you obviously never read that post concerning how Kenworth sorted out Scania in the colonies.
[zb]
anorak:Carryfast:
geoffthecrowtaylor:
cf Icant believe that you ve just written that absolute heap of camel droppings what a typical red communist 60s 70s Arthur ■■■■■■ Scargill view of the countrySo you mean the country would have been better off run by a load of Thatcherite bankers calling miners and factory workers stupid and greedy.
I always thought that’s what happened anyway and look where it’s got the place.
Last month’s manufacturing trade deficit with the rest of the world was just over £10bn. The service sector, on the other hand, made about about seven and a half billion profit. I wonder what services can be exported- maybe it is financial services? You should be thanking the bankers, cf. Their good work is keeping you retired revolutionaries in false teeth, winter fuel coupons and bus passes.
That sounds just like Maggie’s logic in action.We lost 10 bn but we made 7.5 bn which is actually a net loss not a profit.
Not forgetting that the banking industry just ‘banks’ it’s incomes,often abroad in places like Germany and China,not here,instead of ploughing them back into the domestic economy by employing lots of workers in domestic industry who can then use the wages they get to buy more stuff for themselves to make.
But if the inflation figures are any guide you can bet those figures are just bs anyway and the actual level of the country’s debts shows the real situation of where the country is now after over 30 years of Thatcher’s legacy.
Carryfast:
That sounds just like Maggie’s logic in action.We lost 10 bn but we made 7.5 bn which is actually a net loss not a profit.Not forgetting that the banking industry just ‘banks’ it’s incomes not ploughs them back into the economy by employing lots of workers in industry who can then use the wages they get to buy more stuff for themselves to make.
It’s better than a £10bn+ loss, which is what it would be without the service sector bringing foreign currency in. Significant manufacturing output in Britain is finished, thanks to the unions’ intervention. The sad thing is, British industry never got the chance to turn itself around, due to their selfish, cack-handed attempts to wrest the control of it from proper industrialists. If only a Thatcher-style government had arrived a decade or so earlier. Regarding the poor impoverished shopfloor, they had the opportunity to knuckle down and help the moribund firms rebuild. Effectively, they chose the alternative: fries with that, sir?
Regarding the banks, are you suggesting that they just stuff the money they make under the mattress? Economics is not your strong suit, is it? Best stick to engineering.*
*Sarcasm. The lowest form of wit, apparently. Horses for courses, I say.