Quick google;
Average wage in 1989=£153pw, petrol=41p per ltre.
Average wage in 2011=£576pw, petrol=£1.40 per ltre.
So wages have gone up by roughly to 3.5 times the amount in 1989.
Petrol has gone up by about the same.
So no change really.
Rose tinted specs?
rambo19:
Quick google;
Average wage in 1989=£153pw, petrol=41p per ltre.
Average wage in 2011=£576pw, petrol=£1.40 per ltre.So wages have gone up by roughly to 3.5 times the amount in 1989.
Petrol has gone up by about the same.
So no change really.
Rose tinted specs?
No just typically rigged government bs figures.There were a lot more people earning a lot more than £153 pw in 1989 than there are who are earning £576 pw now and the average wage figures don’t reflect differences in hourly rates or hours worked to get make the money either.
Comparing the minimum wage relative to the price of fuel now with how many people would only have been earning £1.73 per hour in 1989,considering that I was getting over £2.00 per hour as a class 2 council driver in 1980 when petrol cost 28p per litre,is a more realistic comparison.
Carryfast:
kr79:
As a private motorist I’d like cheaper fuel but if say they knocked 10p a litre off fuel I guarantee haulage rates would be knocked back to reflect this within a few weeks. To a haulier it doesn’t matter if fuel is 50p or £5 a litre the fact is haulage rates are to low.I f they knocked 10 p a litre off fuel it wouldn’t make the slightest difference.It needs all of the taxes removed completely.The taxes add more than 100 % to the cost of the product.
If you’re right about haulage rates then being knocked back from what they are now in line with that then you’d almost be paying the zb customers to haul their loads for them.
However if you think that haulage rates are too low and if you’re happy enough with road fuel taxation as it stands then why don’t you raise your rates in line with the type of figure that you’d like to see and then see what happens.
Meanwhile those who don’t agree with you can get their fuel at 50 p per litre and then decide on the best rate to charge after that.
To be fair the 10 p figure was just picked at random. But the fact remains haulage rates are to low to make a good return on your investment. The fact remains there is over capacity in the uk haulage market and overseas hauliers can come here and work at lower costs than uk hauliers.
I think you will find most owner drivers and small hauliers are told the rate take it or leave it.
LandyLad:
Hiya Carryfast. Knew you’d be back as quick as a flash!QUOTE"
If OPEC (and every other oil producer) were to start charging the whole world what the Brits are presently stupid enough to charge themselves for road fuel at the pump after taxes,just because the Brits finally realised that it was their government who was robbing them not (so much) the Arabs,then you’d probably see the whole economic system of the whole world collapse.Starting with the air transport industry.The difference is the Arabs know it and there’s no way that they would be as stupid,as the British government is in wrecking the British economy,by then wrecking the whole world economy,including their own,instead.So your maths is definitely a lot worse than the average camel driving Arab.
" END QUOTEI dont think your counter argument shows any defect in my maths at all.
What your counter argument suggests is that I am blaming the wrong people for the end price.
I have simply taken out the myth of percentages from the calculations.
YES our government IS robbing us all soft to have a pool of money that they can dish out little tiny bits of to us and fool us that they are looking after us. WE all really do know that they are not looking after us at all.
YES they DO take a massive amount of money from us in fuel tax. (Robbing thieves)
But if the base price was something like 30 pence per litre, then we would only pay 90 pence per litre.
The government COULDNT put the tax up to 300% or 400% because that would be political suicide.
The percent number would enrage more people then they would like.BUT if they keep tax at 200% and OPEC puts its prices up by only 10 pence, the govt. will get an extra 20 pence for doing NOTHING.
Ha Ha, if the OPEC guys DROP their price by 10p per litre, the Govt. will get 20 pence LESS. Ha Ha Ha on them!
See you soon.
If it’s not political suicide for the government to charge the level of road fuel taxation that they are getting away with now it would be no different if the pre tax price was reduced to 30p per litre the government would just increase the tax on road fuel to keep the pump price exactly the same.It’s all a deliberate political policy of making road transport uneconomic and it’s working.
As for your idea of it all being OPEC’s fault the fact is things weren’t much better here when we were actually self sufficient in road fuel oil supplies.We were still paying more at the pump than Luxembourg and Germany relative to earnings let alone the US and Canada.
PinkLadyTrucker:
I cant believe most of you lot!!You know that the Owner operators / Small Companies are so much priced out of the Market due to Fuel costs, You advise do not go Owner op etc etc
What a bunch of self righteous, brown tongue guys you seem to be
Get a Back bone and Fight for what you believe in what is right, but then again, you rather bend over and take the shafting from government and companies
The situation hasnt changed due to progressive governments always taxing fuel, its a proven fact that reduce tax at the pump and JOBS WILL BE GENERATED, and thus MORE Tax will be generated due to those jobs than would be generated by higher fuel taxes
I recon most of you didnt even hear about the Nigerian Fuel protests
Nigeria fuel protests intensify | Nigeria | The GuardianHeres a thought for you guys, 1 guy can make a difference
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cts=1330945082884&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Ds9dWZc5Z3qs&ei=NJxUT5nsD-nA0QW1_ejaCw&usg=AFQjCNFrnEqLRQfzLX4ZyvCI42Ebqh2HFw&sig2=_FxAiS9QZXan9H3mw1iMIQ
+1 you wont get no backing of here cos they aint got the balls,they just go with the rest of the sheep
kr79:
Carryfast:
kr79:
As a private motorist I’d like cheaper fuel but if say they knocked 10p a litre off fuel I guarantee haulage rates would be knocked back to reflect this within a few weeks. To a haulier it doesn’t matter if fuel is 50p or £5 a litre the fact is haulage rates are to low.I f they knocked 10 p a litre off fuel it wouldn’t make the slightest difference.It needs all of the taxes removed completely.The taxes add more than 100 % to the cost of the product.
If you’re right about haulage rates then being knocked back from what they are now in line with that then you’d almost be paying the zb customers to haul their loads for them.
However if you think that haulage rates are too low and if you’re happy enough with road fuel taxation as it stands then why don’t you raise your rates in line with the type of figure that you’d like to see and then see what happens.
Meanwhile those who don’t agree with you can get their fuel at 50 p per litre and then decide on the best rate to charge after that.
To be fair the 10 p figure was just picked at random. But the fact remains haulage rates are to low to make a good return on your investment. The fact remains there is over capacity in the uk haulage market and overseas hauliers can come here and work at lower costs than uk hauliers.
I think you will find most owner drivers and small hauliers are told the rate take it or leave it.
It’s not so much an issue of overcapacity as one of a deliberate British (and increasingly European) government policy of transferring as much freight as possible from road onto rail.If not then they’d allow road transport to be using untaxed/red diesel throughout Europe which would mean more chance to compete for long distance work.
The issue of East European competition and employers here using cheap East European drivers is a totally different one to the fuel cost issue.The only way to deal with that would be to leave the EU and use quota permits.
maverick72:
Heres a thought for you guys, 1 guy can make a difference
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cts=1330945082884&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Ds9dWZc5Z3qs&ei=NJxUT5nsD-nA0QW1_ejaCw&usg=AFQjCNFrnEqLRQfzLX4ZyvCI42Ebqh2HFw&sig2=_FxAiS9QZXan9H3mw1iMIQ+1 you wont get no backing of here cos they aint got the balls,they just go with the rest of the sheep
The problem in the US during the 1970’s was more one of speed limits than tax on diesel that the Brits have always been lumbered with since the DERV regs.
Anyway they got rid of the double nickel limit and they’ve never been ripped off on the price of road fuel like the Brits but they’ve still ended up losing most of their long distance traffic to the rail freight industry and now the zb Mexicans are coming. 
Wheel Nut:
Trukkertone:
I bought a gallon of petrol in 1970… it only cost me 3 shillings and sixpence… (( that’s 3.85 pence per litre if anyone is curious ))Do you still have a wage slip from 1970?
Footballers were earning £4 per week
I was a year out when i said 1970…
my first wage slip was for
Fine Fare Supermarkets .1st Feb 1969.
gross pay £5.9.6 ( thats 5 pounds 9 shillings and sixpence)
net pay £4.17.10
Anyone who believes Thatcher had little to do with the crap economy/living standards etc we find ourselves in today should google -
Thatcher+Reagan+Neoliberalism.
Solly:
:lol: Anyone who believes Thatcher had little to do with the crap economy/living standards etc we find ourselves in today should google -Thatcher+Reagan+Neoliberalism.
I think that should be Thatcher + Reagan = Communism because it’s the Chinese and the Russians that have gained most from their ideas.
No.
I stand by my comment.
Santa:
skids:
Haulage rates increase = rise in price of goods carried by said haulier.Quite true - but fuel is only a small part of the cost of most products. At one extreme think how many pots of yoghurt you can get in a trailer. Divide the cost of the fuel used and it comes to a minute amount.
Even where fuel is a larger part of the cost - take quarried stone for instance where the material is essentially free and the cost is made up of getting it out of the ground, processing and delivering it - doubling the cost of the fuel used would still only cause a small increase in the final cost.
The people who suffer are those who have a long commute and have no public transpot alternative.
Bit slow replying to this sorry.
Fuel is a larger part of the cost than a lot of people think. Its not just a case of the cost of fuel to move the product from the point of manufacture to the outlet. The cost of the final product is compounded by the price of the ingredients/parts/processing/packaging, all of which have had their own seperate transport (and costs) to the place of final assembly.
Your example of quarried stone I would have to disagree with, as it is a very bulky and heavy commodity and the price of the product is very cheap in proportion to that, there are not many customers for a delivered load, so fewer customers have to take a bigger share of the escalated price.
Quarried aggregates have their own tax at the point of sale; Plus a quarry is an expensive site to maintain, each water pump has a charge payable to the local authority just for pumping it around. Earthmoving plant is very thirsty and the electric bill for a gravel washing plant that processes 200t per hour is phenomenal. All this without the insurance costs, planning fees, mineral royalties to the actual landowner and the inevitable “contributions” towards NIMBY communities like new village halls, public footpath building, etc…
Solly:
:lol: Anyone who believes Thatcher had little to do with the crap economy/living standards etc we find ourselves in today should google -Thatcher+Reagan+Neoliberalism.
Point taken but these same policies continued throughout 13 years of New Labour and the Lib/Lab/Con parties still believe the same crap.
eddie snax:
I dont think that the feul protest’s as they happened then will ever be able to take place again. Also I remember that as we drove away with the promise of a hauliers forum and a reveiw of the price of fuel, the price went up 2p a litre
Certainly up here in Scotland, the hard fact is, that the fuel protests in September 2000 were never going to have any major impact beyond a few days because the momentum couldn’t be sustained.
And it was only ever an Owner Driver/small business issue. Yes okay, the likes of Malcolms, Yuill & Dodds and other big boys sent a few motors through to Edinburgh one morning, during that few days back in Sep 2000, and honked their horns in apparent support, but it was only a token gesture and nothing else!
One of the main reasons the protest at the Grangemouth Refinery lost it’s momentum was because of certain individuals/owner drivers at those gates who got their knickers in a real twist because the refinery drivers crossed their demo lines (self appointed picket lines!). I mean did they really think these guys were going to risk losing their jobs by refusing to work?!
And then when they did drive past those protestors they not only got serious verbal abuse from a handful, they got threatened with violence!
There were a lot of decent O/D’s at those gates in Grangemouth who didn’t get involved in that behaviour. But there was that handful who’s behaviour was nothing short of scandalous including one of the “Spokesmen”. And that self appointed “Spokesman” (who unfortunately I can’t name here), who was interviewed on the news, was a complete plonker! A complete plonker who seemed more interested in getting himself on TV than anything else: didn’t know his facts when interviewed (it was nothing short of cringeworthy). Indeed, he and some others were the reason why the protests at those gates came to an end so quickly. The decent guys just didn’t want to be involved anymore with the nonsense that was going on!
My apologies if I appear to be going off topic here (trust me, I’m not!), but at the end of the day - in my opinion anyway - there was a real, sheer hypocrisy about it all at the time - and there still is. That same “Spokesman” and two of his O/D friends, who were also present at those gates, were “invited” two years earlier to take on some of the workload at a well known Glasgow east end haulage company.
There were already eight regular drivers/employees there, who were doing a perfectly good job - loads done efficiently and on time.
But these Owner/Drivers/sub contractors were brought in to cover a really busy period. They covered the work with staggering efficiency! In fact it was miraculous! All three of them did double the loads per day than the regular drivers and bragged daily about it. But mysteriously when asked by the then transport manager to produce their tachos at any given time, they outright refused to do so. When asked by the regular drivers why they never took any proper, legal breaks, they just laughed it off.
The work that was being carried out was extemely local - deliveries to a well known soft drinks manufacturer in Parkhead, and a well known brewery in Duke street. Very little chance of getting caught running bent.
The moral of the tale? A year after that plonker and his two mates came into that depot, six out of the eight regular drivers were made redundant. But the plonker OD/subbie and his two mates continued to work out of that same depot for another few months. Okay, business is business (as we always keep hearing).
However, it’s ironic if not uncanny, that those same three OD’s/Subbies only months later, were standing at the gates of a refinery with a few others, hurling abuse and threats of violence at regular drivers who they knew would be putting their jobs in jeapardy if they stopped driving. And no doubt these same hypocrites will be moaning today - alongside many others - about the big haulage companies not showing a united front.
I genuinely admire people who want to go and stand at a refinery these days at 7pm every Friday - but looking to the past…some individuals need to get real.
I can’t believe some of the comments on this thread either! why the hell should we have to buy a smaller car that does more to the gallon just because the rich have taxed us to hell? Does that not widen the gap between the rich, Roller, Jag, Bentley driving man, and the common working man, who let us not forget, HAS to pay the full rate of tax on his wages and cannot fiddle and hide his money from the exchequer. ALL governments WILL put up the price of fuel, wreck more haulage companies, and WILL make running a car to the middle/ lower classes a nightmare. But no, we should just let them get on with it. I think it was Santa who made the comment about yogurt I think it was filling a trailer. I was saying 20 years ago, put one penny on a tin of beer, and tell me why that has never been added to the haulers rate? I’ll tell you why, because the likes of some of the companies we know of on here would STILL cut the ■■■■■■■ rate, and we would be back to square one again. Just remember lads, the extra rise they want in fuel will help to pay for the subsidised bars and canteens in parliament and give illegals generous allowances and houses.Not to mention the payment ex-prime ministers get which was introduced my Major!! And Blair and those millionaires still disgustingly take money out of a cash starved country. We sent that bloke to America to stand trial for allegedly selling batteries to make bombs. what evidence have they given this country I wonder, And I am in no way defending him at all, but we can’t send a terrorist back to stand trial because of his human rights? Does that man In America not have the right to a book, a pen and a writing pad? If he done what he done they he should be dealt with, but I think the government of this country have gone too far now, and we need more protests. the gap between us has never been so wide since the 1930s in my opinion. It’s time this fuel price was sorted out by the people of this country; to help the people of this country, not the chosen few who have awarded themselves too much far too often. And I’m NOT a commie either, I just think we are being taken for one of the biggest rides known to man.
My employers are considering a SAFED style course for our plant operators so things must be bad even for red diesel prices…
If you are running your business as you should be with thought and the advantage of experience the price of fuel should not be a problem.
When negotiating contract we take the price of fuel into account as per the Shell price on the 1st of January and apply a fuel surcharge/rebate at the 1st of every month depending on how the fuel price fluctuates it either stays as it is goes up by 1 or 2% or down by 1 or 2% and we have found that most customers accept this with no problems at all if it is explained to them correctly, this system has been in place now for 5 years and works quite well, at the beginning we lost a couple of customers to others who thought they could offer the same service at a lower price but within 6 months the customers were phoning up again.
2 years ago we mothballed 40 trucks of which 25 are now back on the road and a few more expected back on the road again shortly, no we are not a big multi-national we are a family owned company which started with 1 truck and has twice reached 100 trucks and has twice cut back to get us through crisis times, average age of the fleet at present is 4 years but fluctuates depending on the behaviour of each individual vehicle.
If you can´t pass your costs on then don´t load it, others will take up the slack for a while runnung under price but they can´nt keep it up for ever.
Red Squirrel:
Solly:
:lol: Anyone who believes Thatcher had little to do with the crap economy/living standards etc we find ourselves in today should google -Thatcher+Reagan+Neoliberalism.
Point taken but these same policies continued throughout 13 years of New Labour and the Lib/Lab/Con parties still believe the same crap.
Agreed - R S.
B-Liar continued with Tory policies when he could easily overturned them and avoided the crap we find ourselves in now.
