From a car driver to a truck driver (overtaking question)

[santa]

Christopher:

Driveroneuk:

Christopher:
Something else I’ve wondered - guys with half of the Blackpool Illuminations on the back wall of their cab at night. Surely all they can see in their windscreen is the reflection from all those LEDs?

Would these by any chance be the same ones that have tassled curtains pulled 1/2 way accross the side windows, fog lights on & blue lights on the front?

I don’t doubt that there’s a congruence! Very occasionally they can look alright but more often than not it’s like someone’s put four Christmas trees in their cab. If anything they must go through an alternator a week…

They all bat for the other team…

[bobthedog]

What’s wrong with lights??

[samiam]

bobthedog:
What’s wrong with lights??

I would’nt care what team I batted for if I could drive that truck!!! esp as I could’nt see any tasselled curtains I wonder if Santa will bring me one this year "I’ve been a good girl!(had no choice in that matter!!)

[44_tonne_ton]

Chris was referring to lights inside the cab, a point that’s occured to me over the years!

[bobthedog]

Nope, nary a tassle in sight…

Then again, I am considering putting curtains around the front of the cab and removing the divider to the sleeper because the heater in the front is way better than the one in the sleeper, and the heat vernts will warm without overpowering.
Another one…

And in the daylight… just for you, Sam.

[christopher]

bobthedog:
Nope, nary a tassle in sight…

Then again, I am considering putting curtains around the front of the cab and removing the divider to the sleeper because the heater in the front is way better than the one in the sleeper, and the heat vernts will warm without overpowering.
Another one…

And in the daylight… just for you, Sam.

pff, that’s a tiddler. Now these are both stylish AND practical:

The Japs have a nickname for this: dekotora (they use phonetic soundalikes for some names which have no Japanese equivalent: google.co.uk/search?q=dekotora

for e.g. also Anglicised names like Chris become “ku-ri-su” in Japanese. FACTOID

[bobthedog]

Bloody Hell!!

Full grown Hotwheels!!!

[darkseeker]

Driveroneuk:

darkseeker:
Why, at night, do car drivers flash their headlights as they pull out to overtake a hgv?

They are correctl!

They are giving a warning signal, “I am here, have you seen me”?

I do it myself when in the car/van and overtaking car drivers who are wandering around all over the road on ordinary roads at night.

Or worse still, put their high beams on?

Because they want to see where they’re going and are too dumb to realise you’re gonna get all that beam light in your mirror.

.

air enough, could sort of see what they were trying to do but never heard it suggested before, seems unnecessary really apart from maybe when overtaking a left-■■■■■■ (or, like you said, a wanderer). Id be worried the flash was taken as an invitation to overtake the 54mph micra i hadnt seen because the truck was so close to its bumper Surely a car approaching from behind usually means it’ll be alongside you pretty soon.

Thanks for trying to explain though.

[driveroneuk]

No problem. Its actually these days probably only done by advanced drivers as I can find no reference to it in the Highway Code.

Roadcraft says:

Consider the need to give information; is the driver infront aware of your presence, do you need to signal your intention to the driver behind? Consider the benefits of giving a headlight, horn or indicator signal.

Where’s Rog when you need him?

[samiam]

bobthedog:
Nope, nary a tassle in sight…

And in the daylight… just for you, Sam.

I’ll come keep you warm Bob, then we’ll see who bat’s for who’s team!! That really is the Muts Nuts!!! I love it!! I had a go in a Peter built RV that looked just like that same colour aswell but I was’nt so impressed with inside layout as was quite small,esp if like me you live in them full-time,and the turning circle was hard in this country with our roads, but I love the look of it outside. Much prefer yours tho, as thats a real truck! (sorry your prob going to given grief about my comments) but I’d be first in the que to help polish your bits I’ll keep wishing!!!

[rob_k]

Christopher:

Driveroneuk:
Hello Christopher, welcome to Trucknet.

ta

The reason I half thought of asking this in the first place is because my poor little motor (1.25 Fiesta) can barely do 80, never mind a ton - maybe downhill with a tailwind! - but you sometimes see the Audi / BMW / Merc driver hoofing it down Lane 2 past HGVs and think bloody hell, I wouldn’t like to be that driver when his car gets sucked into the side of the trailer.

Glad that what I’m doing is actually half sensible and won’t just make nighttime drivers think “wtf is he doing?” - I usually move into Lane 3 when I see more than one lorry on an uphill stretch, hopefully they notice and know they can pull out if needs be. Very hilly around Brum.

A while back I started to go Lane 3 when passing any lorries if the road was clear, I’ll keep on doing it if you think it’s worthwhile. You always get some nob who’s doing a ton or more down Lane 2 irrespective of road conditions though and that annoys me, at night I usually go Lane 2 (for the reasons like blowouts etc you mentioned) - yet I still get highbeamed every so often by one of those jokers doing 120 in Lane 2 when I’ve been doing 80!

I have an appreciation for all (good ) lorry drivers, our country’s economy and retail system essentially depends on them - and the more I learn about the ins and outs of a day in the life, the more I see they have just as much [zb] to deal with as the rest of us (the least of which being bloody H&S rules!)

Are there any other things you wish car drivers would do (aside from the usual things like not moving into lane 1 right in front of the cab or thinking that the braking distance between lorries is an invitation for them to move in) that would make your lives a bit easier? Personally I know I’d lose an argument with an artic so I keep my distance but some people who I see on my commute every day seem to think that even rigids can stop on a 5p piece just like they can, it worries me a bit!

Is this post for real?

1. There is no problem doing a ton or more in lane 2, or lane 1 for that matter. If you are getting “sucked in” (WTF?) then learn how to drive or get a vehicle more suited to motorway driving.
2. If you are getting high-beamed by “jokers” when you are in lane 2 it is because there is nothing in lane 1 and you should be in it.

Another one that doesn’t have a [zb] clue how to drive. Some reading for you : direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr … /DG_070202

[mrpj]

Christopher:
ACPO sentencing guidelines advise rozzers to not prosecute unless people are going over 99mph

Discretion’s one thing but where did you hear this?

[rob_k]

mrpj:

Christopher:
ACPO sentencing guidelines advise rozzers to not prosecute unless people are going over 99mph

Discretion’s one thing but where did you hear this?

From his mate down the pub. Obviously.

[coca_cola_kid]

As to the speeding, I used to do Avonmouth to home, 140 miles, in an 1 3/4 hours at night. I say get the thing rolling…
[/quote]
Bobthedog tell me the make of car you did that in & i’ll tell you where the hand brake is.

bobthedog:
What’s wrong with lights??

As for this must agree see & be seen

[mickfly]

Mr B:
Although cars have little or no effect on a truck as you over take I would ask you to move over when passing trucks parked in laybys mind you other truck drivers could try this too.

Winding your landing gear down helps stop buffeting BUT leave a note on the steering wheel, although you shouldn’t miss seeing them in your pre-trip check… should you?

[christopher]

Rob K:
Is this post for real?

1. There is no problem doing a ton or more in lane 2, or lane 1 for that matter. If you are getting “sucked in” (WTF?) then learn how to drive or get a vehicle more suited to motorway driving.

I’m fully versed in the Highway Code thanks, I passed my test just as you did. Scored highly on HP and road awareness too.

I never said I was getting sucked in (why do you think I partly change lanes? To avoid anything like that potentially happening. My car will get moved by an unexpected crosswind far more quickly than your lorry will.)

Nevertheless a smaller vehicle passing a larger vehicle will encounter an element of pressure differential given relative speeds and displacement capabilities of the two vehicles. A little similar to how an aerofoil creates upward lift, but in a different plane; some people call it the “suction and release” effect (sounds a bit saucy to me ). Have you never encountered this when driving a car? It’s usually gentle but can catch people out if they’re just gently holding the wheel when passing a slower vehicle in Lane 1. (We’ve all done it at times.)

2. If you are getting high-beamed by “jokers” when you are in lane 2 it is because there is nothing in lane 1 and you should be in it.

Another one that doesn’t have a [zb] clue how to drive. Some reading for you : direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr … /DG_070202

Would you consider it reasonable to travel in a rutted Lane 1 at 80mph or travel safely in the middle of the carriageway, allowing a greater margin for error should I have a blowout or encounter debris on the road? Or would you rather me travel in Lane 1, by the marbles at carriageway edge and any potential cruft falling off lorries / vans? I got a puncture driving in Lane 1 once, had to change a tyre on the motorway. Found a nail in the tyre. Also drove past one of those big jerry cans in Lane 1 in the night once, seems it had fallen off an HGV which had suffered a blowout on a load axle before stopping further up the carriageway. It shed a big strip of tread & cord in Lane 1 too. The jerry can would’ve ripped a hole in my front bumper, never mind if the blowout tread had got flicked up into my wheel arch and stuck in the suspension, I only have a small car!

I was in Lane 2 so missed all of that just sailed past.

What wound me up was that the last time someone did that, the bloke in his Audi started off in Lane 1, moved into Lane 2 as he approached and madly flashed when he was right up by my arse. Having pushed me into Lane 1, he floored it. As I’m sure you’re aware, the Highway Code states it’s perfectly legal to pass someone on the nearside (i.e., passing someone in Lane 2 by remaining in Lane 1) if you are travelling faster than them, as long as you didn’t change lanes beforehand to enter Lane 1 - which is an undertake, or passing on the nearside, and not allowed in the Highway Code. He did it purely to ■■■■ me off at half two in the morning when we were the only two vehicles on the motorway for half a mile either way.

I’m just a grumpy old ■■■■■■■■

Rob K:

mrpj:

Christopher:
ACPO sentencing guidelines advise rozzers to not prosecute unless people are going over 99mph

Discretion’s one thing but where did you hear this?

From his mate down the pub. Obviously.

Informal conversation with a solicitor who specialises in defending those accused of traffic offences. Officially the Sentencing Guidelines council doesn’t require a ban on motorways unless convicted of speeding over 90mph, in which case it can be a 7-28 day ban. Discretion on the part of the officers plays a part, sometimes people will get let off with a slapped wrist depending on circumstance. License revocation only occurs if the person was convicted of doing over a ton by some measurable means such as calibrated VASCAR, ANPR-enabled SPECS, HADECS (the digital gatsos on gantries) or bridge radar/Gatso - basically an HO type-approved measuring device.

PePiPoo has an amusing and useful calculator for estimating a potential sentence based on conditions, road type and confirmed speed: pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm

The actual guidelines are in a matrix on Page 131 of the MCSG: banksr.com/definitive_guidel … 08.pdf#131

[rob_k]

I’m struggling to know where to start with all this guff you’ve just written.

Christopher:

Rob K:
Is this post for real?

1. There is no problem doing a ton or more in lane 2, or lane 1 for that matter. If you are getting “sucked in” (WTF?) then learn how to drive or get a vehicle more suited to motorway driving.

I’m fully versed in the Highway Code thanks, I passed my test just as you did. Scored highly on HP and road awareness too.

I never said I was getting sucked in (why do you think I partly change lanes? To avoid anything like that potentially happening. My car will get moved by an unexpected crosswind far more quickly than your lorry will.)

Nevertheless a smaller vehicle passing a larger vehicle will encounter an element of pressure differential given relative speeds and displacement capabilities of the two vehicles. A little similar to how an aerofoil creates upward lift, but in a different plane; some people call it the “suction and release” effect (sounds a bit saucy to me ). Have you never encountered this when driving a car? It’s usually gentle but can catch people out if they’re just gently holding the wheel when passing a slower vehicle in Lane 1. (We’ve all done it at times.)

If you are too frightened of being “sucked in” when passing lorries then you need to either change to a more substantial car or get off the motorway as you clearly don’t feel safe driving on them. In my very early days of driving I had a 1.2 Nova (lighter than your Fiesta) and had no such problems that you describe so the problem appears to be in the driving seat.

You still haven’t answered specifically why “they” are idiots for doing a ton in lane 2.

2. If you are getting high-beamed by “jokers” when you are in lane 2 it is because there is nothing in lane 1 and you should be in it.

Another one that doesn’t have a [zb] clue how to drive. Some reading for you : direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTr … /DG_070202

Would you consider it reasonable to travel in a rutted Lane 1 at 80mph or travel safely in the middle of the carriageway, allowing a greater margin for error should I have a blowout or encounter debris on the road? Or would you rather me travel in Lane 1, by the marbles at carriageway edge and any potential cruft falling off lorries / vans? I got a puncture driving in Lane 1 once, had to change a tyre on the motorway. Found a nail in the tyre. Also drove past one of those big jerry cans in Lane 1 in the night once, seems it had fallen off an HGV which had suffered a blowout on a load axle before stopping further up the carriageway. It shed a big strip of tread & cord in Lane 1 too. The jerry can would’ve ripped a hole in my front bumper, never mind if the blowout tread had got [zb] up into my wheel arch and stuck in the suspension, I only have a small car!

I was in Lane 2 so missed all of that just sailed past.

What wound me up was that the last time someone did that, the bloke in his Audi started off in Lane 1, moved into Lane 2 as he approached and madly flashed when he was right up by my arse. Having pushed me into Lane 1, he floored it. As I’m sure you’re aware, the Highway Code states it’s perfectly legal to pass someone on the nearside (i.e., passing someone in Lane 2 by remaining in Lane 1) if you are travelling faster than them, as long as you didn’t change lanes beforehand to enter Lane 1 - which is an undertake, or passing on the nearside, and not allowed in the Highway Code. He did it purely to ■■■■ me off at half two in the morning when we were the only two vehicles on the motorway for half a mile either way.

I’m just a grumpy old [zb].

Again, if you are too scared of running over/into “something” in lane 1 that you feel it necessary to drive in lane 2 all the time then you shouldn’t be on the motorway. I travel at 90 in my car on clear and quiet motorways and have no such problems driving in lane 1, and I also have fat 225 tyres on the front which are far more prone to tramlining than your 155s will ever be. No punctures nor flying jerry cans either.

If I’d have been the Audi driver I would’ve been tempted to flash at you for not driving properly as well.

“As I’m sure you’re aware, the Highway Code states it’s perfectly legal to pass someone on the nearside (i.e., passing someone in Lane 2 by remaining in Lane 1) if you are travelling faster than them, as long as you didn’t change lanes beforehand to enter Lane 1”

As it happens I am not aware of any such legislation. Please quote the exact phrase from the Highway Code which you claim to be so up-to-speed with.

Rob K:

mrpj:

Christopher:
ACPO sentencing guidelines advise rozzers to not prosecute unless people are going over 99mph

Discretion’s one thing but where did you hear this?

From his mate down the pub. Obviously.

Informal conversation with a solicitor who specialises in defending those accused of traffic offences. Officially the Sentencing Guidelines council doesn’t require a ban on motorways unless convicted of speeding over 90mph, in which case it can be a 7-28 day ban. Discretion on the part of the officers plays a part, sometimes people will get let off with a slapped wrist depending on circumstance. License revocation only occurs if the person was convicted of doing over a ton by some measurable means such as calibrated VASCAR, ANPR-enabled SPECS, HADECS (the digital gatsos on gantries) or bridge radar/Gatso - basically an HO type-approved measuring device.

PePiPoo has an amusing and useful calculator for estimating a potential sentence based on conditions, road type and confirmed speed: pepipoo.com/Magistrates_guidelines.htm

The actual guidelines are in a matrix on Page 131 of the MCSG: banksr.com/definitive_guidel … 08.pdf#131

The clue is in the word “guidelines”. Nuff said on that one. Feel free to put it to the test and post the outcome here for the benefit of the rest of us.

[driveroneuk]

Rob, there are not many car drivers who bother to seek out an online lorry drivers community. Then register so they can post and ask how said lorry drivers might least be inconvenienced, whilst showing respect and thought for those drivers.

Give the guy a break!

Is it so long since you’ve driven a light vehicle that you’ve forgotten, that especially in a cross wind coming from the nearside, you have to steer into it, when you quite suddenly come into the lee of a trailer the light vehicle then wants to go towards said trailer?

Christopher, Rob has a go at everybody sooner or later, your turn just happens to be sooner.

[rob_k]

Driveroneuk:
Rob, there are not many car drivers who bother to seek out an online lorry drivers community. Then register so they can post and ask how said lorry drivers might least be inconvenienced, whilst showing respect and thought for those drivers.

Give the guy a break!

Is it so long since you’ve driven a light vehicle that you’ve forgotten, that especially in a cross wind coming from the nearside, you have to steer into it, when you quite suddenly come into the lee of a trailer the light vehicle then wants to go towards said trailer?

Christopher, Rob has a go at everybody sooner or later, your turn just happens to be sooner.

Don’t post such BS Jon. I respect anyone that a) knows what they’re talking about and/or b) doesn’t know what they’re talking about but is willing to educated. From Christopher’s posts so far, he is neither and claims to know how to drive when quite clearly he doesn’t and isn’t remotely interested in being educated. Sorry but I don’t have time nor patience for such people and will tell them so in my usual not particularly tactful way.

[christopher]

So kind of you to make sweeping assumptions about my willingness to be educated…

No worries Jon, it’s always nice in a way to meet the trolliest members first know where the high water mark is now, I may subtly wind him up in the future now I know his sore point.

Re undertaking / passing on the left, it’s an offence to undertake but the definition of “passing on the left” vs. “undertaking” is open to some interpretation, even by serving officers.

Example: 5ive-o.org/forum/showthread. … #post44877 (the only reason I’m aware of the distinction is because I was wondering about this last week, so went hunting)

I used to stick to the middle lane all the time at night because then I didn’t even have to shuffle from Lane 1 → Lane 2 → Lane 1 to work around HGVs, nowadays I tend to drive a little more slowly on motorways to get better MPG (urban car = NOT optimally geared for cruising at 80 ).

When I got flashed last time, it was done in such an aggressive manner - tailgating at 80, repeatedly flashing - so as to be quite intimidatory. Could be argued the other driver is guilty of careless / inconsiderate driving under S3 RTA as much as I might be for hogging Lane 2 (all on my own I might add! In the daytime I drive considerately on the mway, I do a lot of driving around inner+outer Brum, Aston Expressway / Gravelly Hill Interchange - Spaghetti Junction to foreigners - and then up and down between Brum and Berkshire.)

80mph is fast enough for any driver, even one specifically aware of conditions around him and taking into consideration road conditions, stopping distances etc as I try to do. The difference in stopping and reaction time between 80 and 100 is significant. You travel roughly 120feet/sec at 80mph and 150feet/sec at 100mph, thinking time is ~1.5secs for average driver then you have reaction time (~0.7secs) on top. If you’re anticipating a move, reaction time is how long it takes to move foot from gas to brake.

My speedo reads 5/6mph fast, so when it shows 80 I’m actually doing about 75. However I know what 90, 100, looks like from experience and you can gauge how fast another car’s travelling by duration of travel between mway lampposts.

If Mr. Audi was ADI or RoSPA qualified as an advanced driver, he’d know exactly how to deal with the situation I presented and this bloke was clearly used to being king of the road! It’s amusing in hindsight I suppose.

BUT, as we all know… it’s not an offence unless seen by a rozzer!

Cheers for the voice of support, I grew up with siblings though so I’m well used to being wound up.