This came up as a question on another forum so I thought those in the know on here might like to debate it for a bit of fun 
Is the total daily rest period to be a minimum of 9 or 11 hours (plus movements) within the 30 hour period for a ferry crossing when multi-manned?
This has not been resolved on that other forum as yet and someone I called about it 
went very quiet for a moment and then resolved to ākeep their head below the parapitā 
Perhaps there is not an answer ā¦
The answer is 9 hours due to deROGation
ROG:
Is the total daily rest period to be a minimum of 9 or 11 hours (plus movements) within the 30 hour period for a ferry crossing when multi-manned?
Interesting question
Regulations 561/2006 article 9 twice mentions a regular daily rest period which is 11 hours, so I would say the answer is āat least 11 hoursā, the 9 hours rest for double manning is a derogation from the rules but no mention of a derogation is made for the rest period required for an interrupted daily rest period.
Having said that I imagine that with proper planning this problem wouldnāt normally arise when double manning.
Article 9
- By way of derogation from Article 8, where a driver
accompanies a vehicle which is transported by ferry or train,
and takes a regular daily rest period, that period may be
interrupted not more than twice by other activities not
exceeding one hour in total. During that regular daily rest
period the driver shall have access to a bunk or couchette.
āregular daily rest periodā means any period of rest
of at least 11 hours. Alternatively, this regular daily
rest period may be taken in two periods, the first of
which must be an uninterrupted period of at least 3
hours and the second an uninterrupted period of at
least nine hours,
tachograph:
ROG:
Is the total daily rest period to be a minimum of 9 or 11 hours (plus movements) within the 30 hour period for a ferry crossing when multi-manned?Interesting question
Regulations 561/2006 article 9 twice mentions a regular daily rest period which is 11 hours, so I would say the answer is āat least 11 hoursā, the 9 hours rest for double manning is a derogation from the rules but no mention of a derogation is made for the rest period required for an interrupted daily rest period.
Having said that I imagine that with proper planning this problem wouldnāt normally arise when double manning.
Article 9
- By way of derogation from Article 8, where a driver
accompanies a vehicle which is transported by ferry or train,
and takes a regular daily rest period, that period may be
interrupted not more than twice by other activities not
exceeding one hour in total. During that regular daily rest
period the driver shall have access to a bunk or couchette.āregular daily rest periodā means any period of rest
of at least 11 hours. Alternatively, this regular daily
rest period may be taken in two periods, the first of
which must be an uninterrupted period of at least 3
hours and the second an uninterrupted period of at
least nine hours,
But in Article 8 at paragraph 5 it gives another derogation.
By way of derogation from paragraph 2, within 30 hours
of the end of a daily or weekly rest period, a driver engaged in
multi-manning must have taken a new daily rest period of at
least nine hours.
Wheel Nut:
The answer is 9 hours due to deROGation
That SHOULD be the correct answer
Wheel Nut:
But in Article 8 at paragraph 5 it gives another derogation.By way of derogation from paragraph 2, within 30 hours
of the end of a daily or weekly rest period, a driver engaged in
multi-manning must have taken a new daily rest period of at
least nine hours.
Yes but as far as I can see thereās no derogation for the requirement for a āregular daily restā period when having an interrupted daily rest period, and a regular daily rest period is at least 11 hours.
I believe there are two reasons why nine hours is perfectly legal and it will probably need a clever mind to put it into the correct words.
The term double manning is actually multimanning, there could be 3 crewmembers but let us stick with 2 for now.
Only one person can be āthe driverā
The laws says that the two movements must be completed inside an hour.
The law also says that a second crewmember does not have to be onboard the vehicle for the first hour.
My scenario. A double man team arrives at the dock, doesnāt matter where, but Harwich to the Hook is a short crossing (about 7 hours) Driver A is driving, Driver B in the passenger seat. Booked in and off for a pint. Driver B takes his bag on the ferry and has a shower, Driver A stays in the lorry talking to his mate in the next lorry. The lorry is called forward to load, the other driver has had his shower, chosen his bunk and is waiting in the bar. 7 hours later, Driver A moves the lorry of the boat. Driver B hasnāt done a stroke since 16.30 and he has had all the relevant rest, access to a bunk and uninterrupted period during which the driver (B) has freely disposed of his time. 
@ Wheel Nut
I assume youāre referring to the fact that driver B may have had 11 hours daily rest, is that right ?
If thatās the case then Iām sorry but your scenario falls down in article 1 (c) and in article 9.1.
A driver is anyone who is carried in the vehicle to be available for driving, so I would say that all drivers in a multi-manned vehicle need to have a regular daily rest period (11 hours) in order to take advantage of the interrupted daily rest derogation.
Sorry
Article 1
(c) ādriverā means any person who drives the vehicle even for
a short period, or who is carried in a vehicle as part of his
duties to be available for driving if necessary;
Article 9
- By way of derogation from Article 8, where a driver
accompanies a vehicle which is transported by ferry or train,
and takes a regular daily rest period, that period may be
interrupted not more than twice by other activities not
exceeding one hour in total. During that regular daily rest
period the driver shall have access to a bunk or couchette.
Of course nine hours would be enough if the drivers are taking the entire nine hour rest period on the ferry without needing to move the vehicle in that time, if the ferry journey was nine hours or more then the minimum daily rest required would be nine hours.
But I donāt think that was the idea behind **ROGā**s question as he specifically mentioned the vehicle movements in the rest period.
Perhaps ROG could clarify that heās referring to a ferry trip of less than nine hours
tachograph:
Perhaps ROG could clarify that heās referring to a ferry trip of less than nine hours
YES
EXAMPLE:-
Movements totalling 40 mins plus 9 hours of rest within 30 hours with the other 20 hours and 20 mins being driving, other work etc etc
tachograph:
@ Wheel NutI assume youāre referring to the fact that driver B may have had 11 hours daily rest, is that right ?
If thatās the case then Iām sorry but your scenario falls down in article 1 (c) and in article 9.1.
A driver is anyone who is carried in the vehicle to be available for driving, so I would say that all drivers in a multi-manned vehicle need to have a regular daily rest period (11 hours) in order to take advantage of the interrupted daily rest derogation.
Sorry
Article 1
(c) ādriverā means any person who drives the vehicle even for
a short period, or who is carried in a vehicle as part of his
duties to be available for driving if necessary;Article 9
- By way of derogation from Article 8, where a driver
accompanies a vehicle which is transported by ferry or train,
and takes a regular daily rest period, that period may be
interrupted not more than twice by other activities not
exceeding one hour in total. During that regular daily rest
period the driver shall have access to a bunk or couchette.Of course nine hours would be enough if the drivers are taking the entire nine hour rest period on the ferry without needing to move the vehicle in that time, if the ferry journey was nine hours or more then the minimum daily rest required would be nine hours.
But I donāt think that was the idea behind **ROGā**s question as he specifically mentioned the vehicle movements in the rest period.Perhaps ROG could clarify that heās referring to a ferry trip of less than nine hours
Driver B has had a 9 hour rest period.
Double manning is a crazy situation that should been addressed in 2006, previously 2 drivers could work for 30 hours with a rest period of 8 hours. In this thread someone is asking about splitting the rest period albeit it now being an hour longer. The alternative is now for the drivers to work 30 hours in the UK, drive south to the tunnel, cross without any facilities and then do another maximum shift of 30 hours
Nine hours is a regular daily rest period in multi-manning operations.
Thatās all.
Coffeeholic:
Nine hours is a regular daily rest period in multi-manning operations.Thatās all.
Not according to the regulations itās not.
āregular daily rest periodā means any period of rest
of at least 11 hours. Alternatively, this regular daily
rest period may be taken in two periods, the first of
which must be an uninterrupted period of at least 3
hours and the second an uninterrupted period of at
least nine hours,
tachograph:
Coffeeholic:
Nine hours is a regular daily rest period in multi-manning operations.Thatās all.
Not according to the regulations itās not.
You arenāt limited to only using the multi-manned rest three times between weekly rest periods therefore it is not a reduced rest period, which only leaves a regular rest period.
tachograph:
āregular daily rest periodā means any period of rest
of at least 11 hours. Alternatively, this regular daily
rest period may be taken in two periods, the first of
which must be an uninterrupted period of at least 3
hours and the second an uninterrupted period of at
least nine hours,
Has your body been taken over by ROG? 
You are picking only one bit of the regulations and ignoring other very relevant bits.
Article 8
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.
A daily rest period may be extended to make a regular
weekly rest period or a reduced weekly rest period.A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest
periods between any two weekly rest periods.By way of derogation from paragraph 2, within 30 hours
of the end of a daily or weekly rest period, a driver engaged in
multi-manning must have taken a new daily rest period of at
least nine hours.
Article 8.5 cancels both paragraphs of Article 8.2 in the case of multi-manning. Therefore when engaged in multi-manned operations you ignore completely Article 8.2 and instead use Article 8.5, which means 9 hours is in effect a regular daily rest period when multi-manning.
This question has come up a few times before on these boards.
Coffeeholic:
Has your body been taken over by ROG?
He is just filling in for me until I come off premod
Seriously, it is good to see various viewpoints being put forward which was the idea of the debate on this issue
I wonder if anyone would care to ask for the answer at their local VOSA office as that might produce some interesting answersā¦ 
ROG:
Coffeeholic:
Has your body been taken over by ROG?He is just filling in for me until I come off premod
I see. In that case his job will be done shortly and we can get back to normal.
BTW, I havenāt said whether you can interrupt a multi-manned daily rest when using a ferry or a train because I have absolutely no idea whether you can or not. I was simply pointing out that a multi-manned daily rest is a regular daily rest as far as multi-manning goes despite it being less than 11 hours.
My inclination would be that they couldnāt as I think Article 9.1 is referring to a regular regular daily rest period rather than a non-regular regular multi-manned daily rest period. Hows that for gobbledegook?
I wonder if this is the key?
Article 9
- By way of derogation from Article 8, where a driver
accompanies a vehicle which is transported by ferry or train,
and takes a regular daily rest period, that period may be
interrupted not more than twice by other activities not
exceeding one hour in total. During that regular daily rest
period the driver shall have access to a bunk or couchette.
A driver is clearly singular implying it maybe isnāt multi-manning.
Interesting one though. In the same way that Article 8.5 trumps Article 8.2 because it is further up the hierarchy and Article 9.1 does the same to all of Article 8 for the same reason, does that mean that Article 9 simple means any regular daily rest period rather than just the 11 hour single manning one?
What about two drivers in the same truck who work a shift of 12.5 hours, 12 hours driving and 30 minutes other work then take an 11 hour rest period in total, interrupted twice for a total of 30 minutes? Are they working to multi-manning rules? I know what I think the answer is in that situation but Iām interested to hear what others say.
Coffeeholic:
BTW, I havenāt said whether you can interrupt a multi-manned daily rest when using a ferry or a train because I have absolutely no idea whether you can or not. I was simply pointing out that a multi-manned daily rest is a regular daily rest as far as multi-manning goes despite it being less than 11 hours.
In hindsight I should have titled this thread - Split ferry rest when multi-manning - and then asked the question - Is the total daily rest period to be a minimum of 9 or 11 hours (plus movements) within the 30 hour period for a split daily rest ferry crossing when multi-manned?
Live and learnā¦
Coffeeholic:
we can get back to normal.
Hmmmā¦ I donāt think that the word NORMAL and ROG go together 
ROG:
Coffeeholic:
BTW, I havenāt said whether you can interrupt a multi-manned daily rest when using a ferry or a train because I have absolutely no idea whether you can or not. I was simply pointing out that a multi-manned daily rest is a regular daily rest as far as multi-manning goes despite it being less than 11 hours.In hindsight I should have titled this thread - Split ferry rest when multi-manning - and then asked the question - Is the total daily rest period to be a minimum of 9 or 11 hours (plus movements) within the 30 hour period for a split daily rest ferry crossing when multi-manned?
Live and learnā¦
Or even Interrupted Rest When Multi-manning, as there is no such thing as ferry rest, split or otherwise.
ROG:
Coffeeholic:
we can get back to normal.Hmmmā¦ I donāt think that the word NORMAL and ROG go together
I said we can get back to normal, not you.
A well respected member of this site who is superb on the regs has suggested the following might be worth considering -
Whilst the wording of Articles 8 & 9 does not make it crystal clear what the situation is regarding multi-manning and ferry interruptions an idea may be gained about the thought process behind the legislation from paragraph 17 of the preamble to the Regulation. For those that cannot be bothered to find the text, para 17 says;
This Regulation aims to improve social conditions for employees who are covered by it, as well as to improve general road safety. It does so mainly by means of the provisions pertaining to maximum driving times per day, per week and per period of two consecutive weeks, the provision which obliges drivers to take a regular weekly rest period at least once per two consecutive weeks and the provisions which prescribe that under no circumstances should a daily rest period be less than an uninterrupted period of nine hours. Since those provisions guarantee adequate rest, and also taking into account experience with enforcement practices during the past years, a system of compensation for reduced daily rest periods is no longer necessary.
His view is that you may interrupt the rest period when multi-manned but you need to take a total of at least 11 hours and not nine.
He went on to say that only a Court may actually rule on what the Regulation actually means
I personally think that the words āregular daily restā need clarifying in the case of multi-manning as I think that a 9 is the regular daily rest for that circumstance