Experience

[newmercman]

I’ve seen drivers with many years of experience being baffled by things they have no experience of, the suzie for the sliding skellies being the most common, I love pointing that one out I myself have been scratching my head a few times too, but as an experienced driver I get a different reaction from other drivers, they may take the ■■■■ a little & then they show me what’s what, but put a rookie in the same situation & quite often the reaction is different, lots of raised eyebrows & shaking of heads, moans of ‘it weren’t like that in my day’ etc, so I can see the OPs point.

I also see the other side, it frustates the hell out of me when I see people on here moaning about ‘sheds’ like a 430hp Axor high roof sleeper cab with autoshift, air ride seat & suspension, night heater, A/C, CD player blah blah blah, when I first started out 230hp was the usual, sleeper cabs involved rolled up coats & a gear stick up your arse crack all night long, ok, there were sleeper cabs around, but not for everyone, now I consider the 2300 Daf I had as a complete shed, now ask my Dad the same question & tell him my answer & he’ll say that I’m a fairy, at least my Daf had power steering, a heater, a radio, not like the 1950s Fodens he drove, ask my Grandad… I think this is partly the reason & we’re all guilty of it to some extent, but the newbies do contribute, some of the questions are beyond ridiculous, like ‘What is the best thing to store water in while I’m tramping?’ the obvious answer is A [ZB]ING SEALED CONTAINER YOU MUPPET! or ‘Is there a law against having a non working fridge in the cab?’ still it’s entertaining reading & contributing to the responses

[dle1uk]

In my own exp Ive recieved help and assistance off loads of drivers, but I don,t want to class all with the following but I have also found the ones most likely to help are the old timers, younger guys seem to want to watch you struggle whilst filming you with their mobile phone and then texting it to their mates…

I now do multi drop and find that fellow multi droppers don,t want to know, if i pull up to a drop and find someone else there I will ask how long they have left, and either give em a hand or go and do another and come back ect, but in a lot of cases when others have turned up whilst i,m there I don,t even get asked the question, they just carry on doing their bit and in the end we are both getting in each others way and the guy/lass checking it in as lost the plot…

[robroy]

Just yesterday I pulled on services which was very busy due to standing traffic on Mway, 1 space available which was tight as 4r$3hole$, the trucks on each side both had drivers sat, I knew I could get in (30yrs experience…not boasting COMPLAINING ) neither of them bothered to get out to watch me, got out twice to check, they both just sat looking at me, didn,t even pull their mirrors in,I got in, the guy next to me says “Didnt think you could get in there mate” , I just stared at him Drivers

[redbob]

robroy:
Just yesterday I pulled on services which was very busy due to standing traffic on Mway, 1 space available which was tight as 4r$3hole$, the trucks on each side both had drivers sat, I knew I could get in (30yrs experience…not boasting COMPLAINING ) neither of them bothered to get out to watch me, got out twice to check, they both just sat looking at me, didn,t even pull their mirrors in,I got in, the guy next to me says “Didnt think you could get in there mate” , I just stared at him Drivers

I had a similar situation at a drop in L’pool.

Due to builing work it was a very tight blindside reverse between 2 trucks and I had jumped out to check to be met by a bloke out of a Downton truck who said “jump back in mate and i’ll guide you in”

Just shows are some good guys out there

But on the flip side, I do think some people dont want to be helped as they think they are ‘Billy Big Balls’ and will feel patronised that they needed ‘help’ in full view of other drivers. It’s them who will look stupid in the long run when ringing their bosses to report they’ve tw@tted into a brand new MAN.

[stan]

When i passed my test i was told if you go to load some thing that you have not loaded before always watch the old boy load his and learn but always ask questions off them makes you feel good when some body just starting asks you how its dun we all have to learn.Been at it for a for about twenty five years now and still learning hope i never stop

[santa]

When I first started I can remember asking for help and being told; “Effin agency drivers…”. I can also remember many times being helped, with or without asking.

However I often do multidrop and, to be honest, I would only help another driver if he was really struggling. I have enough to do without doing other peoples jobs too. As for watching someone back — it seems to me that self preservation should encourage you to get out and make sure that someone doesn’t back into your truck.

[darkseeker]

Can see the original point though, it’s sad to see when someone asks a valid question on here and the minority lay into the poor guy.

I’ve only just started out on the artic’s so will probably have plenty of questions soon, some may seem rediculously simple - like what exactly is a “tilt” I’ve heard it many a time and I’m pretty sure it’s a kind of trailer but that’s as much as I know?

On the other hand are my class 2 days (the last 3yrs ish) I’ve been quite fortunate really in that I’m a hands on, practical person (qualified and experienced mechanic previously) and can usually suss things for myself. My very first day was a curtain side job and I asked the only person about (the t.m.) how to work the curtains, he wasn’t sure so I worked it out while he was there and ended up showing him! I asked a lady trucker at another place how to work the tail lift, I could probably have worked it out really but I didn’t want to end up trapping my fingers in the thing and was very grateful for the help.

Having said that, i’d neither say I was arrogant or couldn’t wipe my own arse Yeah I’ve got a lot to learn, and I’m not too proud to ask for help but I’ll have a bloody good try on my own first, if I can, as I seem to learn things better that way

[waddy640]

Obviously my response to a question was not as diplomatic as it should have been and I will bear this in mind in future.

My point was and still is, that although there is a wealth of knowledge available from the various sources already listed, the employers should have better training in place for those new to a particular aspect of the industry. We are using expensive equipment that can easily be damaged and can also be very dangerous if anything goes wrong.

I have never worked on containers and would need some help. I normally learn quicker by hands on training than a book or video. I doubt I am alone in this.

I do not know it all and hopefully I will continue to learn in the future.

If I have offended anyone by my post, then I apologise.

[caledoniandream]

It’s good to see on here that there are lot of people who would go out their way to help somebody.
I never mind to stop with my work or whatever else and help somebody with guiding him in, warn him for low bridges or show him how equipment works.
30 years on the road, and even more between trucks learned me a lot, but not everything…far from it

It’s a shame nowadays that there is no time to learn anybody properly the job, no apprentice scheme’s. no old hand who would drag you around the country and give you a slap if you let the gearbox crunch. (if you can’t find it, grind it, attitude would give you a sore ear)
In my driving time and still now, I have learned from “old hands” as much as from “newbies”
It’s not black and white that the old hand know everything and the newbie knows nothing, a fresh pair of eyes can do wonders!
But I have a problem with people who are to big to take a helping hand
I have always listen to advice from anybody, but made my own decisions. If I reverse a truck back, I have been at the back to see where I go, and expect that also from my drivers.

We had trucks at home, Scania Vabis 85 super (the bonneted version) but by the time I was able to drive them they already had a million on the clock and the wind was blowing through the cab. (nowadays they wouldn’t be accepted as a shunter )
They would regular break down, or the trailer would throw a wobble, and with no mobile phones, you had to give it a go yourself.
But if you was broke down other drivers (even competitors) would stop, and give it a go as well, God you learned quick, and you would stop yourself if somebody had a breakdown to see if you could help, with a lone of a spanner,hand, parts or a spare wheel (yes we changed punctures ourselves!) and learn even more.
You could do that, because the time pressure was not that big, your gaffer wouldn’t jump upside down if you where late for that reason, because he knew next time it could be you who needed help.

After that I worked for a local transport company, and they gave me a Daf 2300, old thing but it was my first own truck, and if you did your best you could work your way up to one of their 2800 ATI Daf’s, that was the holy grail.
What I try to say is, in the earlier times you had to work your way up in a company, and as you improved the money improved and the trucks improved.
It gave you the chance to learn and make mistakes, a scratch on your truck, is for many people a scratch on their soul, but for a companies point of view a scratch on an old banger could be dealt with the famous words “■■■■ happens”
I am still a big believer that this was a good thing, made me a better person, and learned me to appreciate and be appreciated.
The Dutch still use a system, that you start on lower money, and get “scaled” up as your experience rises. (an E6 driver should be able to make coffee, stir his spaghetti, and read the paper, while doing 56 mph down the “Route the Soleil”)
This gives them to take on inexperienced drivers who can grow in the job, and get a better chance to learn from the more experienced drivers.
The attitude of “He gets the same money as me so he should do the same amount of work” doesn’t play so much than.

[darkseeker]

waddy640:
Obviously my response to a question was not as diplomatic as it should have been and I will bear this in mind in future.

If I have offended anyone by my post, then I apologise.

If that’s because of what I said waddy - none of it was aimed at you or anyone else in particular, I just don’t like to be stereotyped. You’re right, there should be more oportunities to learn before you have to go and do it, none of it’s rocket science though and newbies have been learning as they go for some time now (myself included). There’ll always be the turds who won’t help even though they could and the same goes for those who should ask for / take advice but think they’re above it - thankfully we’re all different.

[waddy640]

The I’m alright Jack attitude applies in so many aspects of life today. Opening doors, giving up seats on buses or trains and all the other things that used to be done have all fallen by the wayside.

[wildgoose]

newmercman:
I think this is partly the reason & we’re all guilty of it to some extent, but the newbies do contribute, some of the questions are beyond ridiculous, like ‘What is the best thing to store water in while I’m tramping?’ the obvious answer is A [ZB]ING SEALED CONTAINER YOU MUPPET! or ‘Is there a law against having a non working fridge in the cab?’ still it’s entertaining reading & contributing to the responses

About water… I asked that, I don’t remember your contructive contribution added on that thread, either in the positive or negative. Plenty contributed useful advice though.

My opinion is that the only stupid question is one that isn’t asked, and with your attitude its not surprising many of us who are new to this are afraid to ask something so simple. Naturally, like most, I fail to appreciate how a simple question on a forum, can put you out so much that you feel the need to add a negative comment.

I’ll ask anyone, about anything, if i’m not 100% certain. I couldn’t give a monkeys about what people think about me or my ability as a driver, before or afterwards. If you think i’m an idiot, it doesn’t make much difference to my ability to sleep at night.

I’ve met an uncountable number of great guys so far willing to offer their advice, help with something I might be having difficulty with, or just generally shoot the ■■■■ about the ill’s of the job and the world. Of course with that, i’ve met a great number of idiots or those who consider themselves above helping me, all we can wish for is a world with fewer of these.

I’ve been incredibly lucky for my first few months on class 1 in that I found an employer who was willing to give me a chance without much experience, and also to send me out with other drivers for a while to help me find my feet. This isn’t the case for a great many of us, and it doesn’t seem unreasonable to expect us to do the same job of those with 20 years experience, without a single word of advice.

newmercman, mighty glad I am, that you are dragging things around many thousands of miles away from us, and no longer part of our little island. In my opinion, your attitude stinks.

[newmercman]

Well Wildgoose, you obviously have taken offence at my comment, I never made that suggestion on your original thread on the matter, I realised that you actually wanted advice, not a flippant remark, as I had no advice to give I stayed out of it, but I was using your question as an example, when viewed out of context it does indeed seem like a stupid question, to me at least, especially with an answer like the one I gave & that is why I used it, I was using it to get a point across, so don’t be so touchy, you may want to read my post again, ignoring the bit about your water container & you will see that I am actually saying the same things that you said in your response, minus the bit about your response to my response, if you know what I mean

[dinosteveus1]

WildGoose:
My opinion is that the only stupid question is one that isn’t asked, and with your attitude its not surprising many of us who are new to this are afraid to ask something so simple. Naturally, like most, I fail to appreciate how a simple question on a forum, can put you out so much that you feel the need to add a negative comment.

I’ll ask anyone, about anything, if i’m not 100% certain. I couldn’t give a monkeys about what people think about me or my ability as a driver, before or afterwards. If you think i’m an idiot, it doesn’t make much difference to my ability to sleep at night.

Agreed.

The way I see it, I’m a inexperienced newbie and I don’t expect the same pay, jobs or as good a vehicle as an experienced driver. Start at the bottom and work your way up is the only way to go, imho.
I’ll struggle like ■■■■ until I’ve lost the plot, then I’ll ask for help cos it’s obvious I ain’t gonna do ‘it’, whatever ‘it’ is. If someone was to offer help early on I’d be so grateful I’d happily accept and buy the Ts afterwards.
I love this job, it’s amazing what you can do with such a huge vehicle, where it can go and what it can do, in the rights hands of course.

[ollienotts]

Wheel Nut:

OllieNotts:
I agree with the sentiment of the OP. There is lot of ego’s on here only too quick to jump down someones throat because they have asked a question relative to them because a search would of done it Not everyone that comes on here is up with the internet and forums and doesnt know the basics but I feel such treatment of some is why you see so many posters posting very rarely and have 50 posts for 4 years or more being registered.
On topic of helping out newbies, I am still a newbie. Had class one 2 years in Dec but learning all the time, just passed assessment for kuene and nagel for manpower which most fail and the assessor really liked me from the feedback at the end despite me not knowing all there is to know so maybe I am on the side of the fence where willingness shows through rather then arrogance just because my license has a picture of a lorry on.
Just to add, I think its a sad show that when you are struggling like [zb] to get on a loading dock so many fat ■■■■ heads just sit there with a big grin on their face while the driver is sweating buckets and getting worse with every shunt I have got out of the cab in the early hours to help a foriegner do a blind side reverse in the pitch black in an msa because he was struggling and the guy infront of me just sat waving his arms around with no patience moaning instead of helping him get on his way I felt like telling him to ■■■■■■■■ Also not so long ago I was struggling to get onto a tight bay and I mean tight and the lorrys were also tight together and I was in fear of clipping a unit behind my blind side and the idiot sat there reading his paper until I shunted forward to try again and sat there laughing and tutting instead of just watching my back to make sure I didnt hit his unit I know we “should” be able to do it and I can but ffs it would of took him 3 seconds to jump down and 20 odd watching me in I always get out and watch any driver back if needed even in services.
And what about those who expect you to know the ins and outs of every job and every unit there is just because you have a class one license?
I have driven some sheds on agency, also I have driven nice new shiny ones but at the end of the day if it legal I wont complain. I can and do clean myself when needed, never heard anyone demand new expensive kit but I am sure it does go on but there are plenty of you old gits who demand the same
Rant over

Strange that because I have seen a couple of posts lately that you started and you have been given some very good advice.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61795&start=0

I seem to remember one when you knew best and told the people helping you the same

Funny how a few have echo’d my same view of the ego’s on here and the way they reply to folks threads but you dont pull them up on it
There are a few and I wont name names as it will no doubt be deleted anyway but I just choose to ignore them when I see their name above a post as I know what is coming.
As for that thread I made many references to the fact what I was saying wasnt coming across in the way I wanted and was meant tongue in cheek. Trouble is the ones with the big ego’s dont like anyone arguing with their supreior knowledge which leads to arguements becuase they know best and that is that

[newmercman]

OllieNotts:
Funny how a few have echo’d my same view of the ego’s on here and the way they reply to folks threads but you dont pull them up on it
There are a few and I wont name names as it will no doubt be deleted anyway but I just choose to ignore them when I see their name above a post as I know what is coming.
As for that thread I made many references to the fact what I was saying wasnt coming across in the way I wanted and was meant tongue in cheek. Trouble is the ones with the big ego’s dont like anyone arguing with their supreior knowledge which leads to arguements becuase they know best and that is that

I hope you’re not refering to me

Egos do play a part, but in exactly the same way as they would if you were asking the same questions in a yard full of drivers, sometimes I try to add constructive comments to posts, sometimes I take the ■■■■, just as I would in the aforementioned yard, but people are so touchy nowadays, take Wildgoose’s response to my sealed container reference, he got all upset about it, it was a ■■■■ take, plain & simple, when I read his initial post on the subject it took me back to when I first started having nights out, I had enough supplies & equipent for an Everest Expedition, a proper all the gear & no idea situation, by the time I’d loaded it all in the cab I had nowhere to sleep Over the years I’ve probably learned as much from having the ■■■■ taken when I’ve made a balls up than from when I asked a question, it’s a rite of passage, we had the ■■■■ taken out of us when we were starting out & we carry on the tradition, not always and not everyone, but it’s just banter, maybe because you can’t see the expression on the poster’s face it sometimes causes offence, but that’s the way it is with the written word

[ollienotts]

No mate not you I know you are a ■■■■ taker and agree totally with the touchyness of some folk on here
I read your helpful comments on a lot of stuff so obviously the poster didnt realise before he went off on one
I have had some great help on here, also made me change the way I look at certain things when it comes to onducting myself at work in the future and it has worked out well for me so far. Too many people get offended from ■■■■ taking comments that if you were in a yard you would reply with “yeah ok mate why dont you ■■■■ off” and instead they get right on their high horse of self importance and have a go at folk or make snide remarks because they dont know about something or god forbid ask for info on a subject we should all know

[waddy640]

newmercman:

OllieNotts:
Funny how a few have echo’d my same view of the ego’s on here and the way they reply to folks threads but you dont pull them up on it
There are a few and I wont name names as it will no doubt be deleted anyway but I just choose to ignore them when I see their name above a post as I know what is coming.
As for that thread I made many references to the fact what I was saying wasnt coming across in the way I wanted and was meant tongue in cheek. Trouble is the ones with the big ego’s dont like anyone arguing with their supreior knowledge which leads to arguements becuase they know best and that is that

I hope you’re not refering to me

Egos do play a part, but in exactly the same way as they would if you were asking the same questions in a yard full of drivers, sometimes I try to add constructive comments to posts, sometimes I take the ■■■■, just as I would in the aforementioned yard, but people are so touchy nowadays, take Wildgoose’s response to my sealed container reference, he got all upset about it, it was a ■■■■ take, plain & simple, when I read his initial post on the subject it took me back to when I first started having nights out, I had enough supplies & equipent for an Everest Expedition, a proper all the gear & no idea situation, by the time I’d loaded it all in the cab I had nowhere to sleep Over the years I’ve probably learned as much from having the ■■■■ taken when I’ve made a balls up than from when I asked a question, it’s a rite of passage, we had the ■■■■ taken out of us when we were starting out & we carry on the tradition, not always and not everyone, but it’s just banter, maybe because you can’t see the expression on the poster’s face it sometimes causes offence, but that’s the way it is with the written word

You’ve hit the nail on the head, the written word can so easily be taken out of context. This is a forum and everybody is entitled to pass an opinion as long as it doesn’t get personal. If you disagree with another persons view fair enough but that’s what debates are about.

[phil_the_book]

To all new drivers listen to the old boys then make up your own mind a lot of us old boys dont know everything in my time i have found that you will learn something new every day because things seem to change every day .Also if you know about something say your piece if not say nowt and you should get by when we all started we were green so if someone takes the pee at your wrongdoing you can bet your life he has done the same thing.

[bestbooties]

After 40 years in the job,I learned something new last week.
I was coupling up to one of our normal trailers with a new Axor tractor.
The suzzies had been left lying on the catwalk by the last driver,so I started to couple them up,but could I get the ABS plug in? no way.After 10 minutes just before I was about to go to the fitting shop,one of our shunters came over and and said,“Put the right plug in mate”,and showed me there was another ABS suzzie with the plug still in it’s park socket.The two suzzie plugs had different pin setups!
I’ve since noticed there are only two or three tractors on the park with TWO ABS suzzies.
YOU LEARN SOMETHING EVERY DAY!

Will this drivers CPC teach you all this,as well as roping and sheeting,(which is now a specialised game anyway)?