Prior to ,say, 1980 which was the better firm to work for between ERF & Foden over the previous 30 or 40 years and which was the larger of the two operations ? Cheers Bewick.
Undoubtedly Foden was the bigger company of the two. At its peak, circa 1970, Foden employed some 3,000 people. Of course, it had a large in-house manufacturing facility and made most of its own components. By comparison ERF employed fewer than 1,000 people at its peak. Production figures reflect this as well, although not as a reflection of comparative work forces. Foden registrations in its peak years averaging about 1,800 chassis, plus several MoD orders that aren’t included in SMMT figures, nor were the off road Foden dumpers. ERF’s peak years saw an average of about 1,200 chassis registrations. It must be taken into account that both Foden and ERF were active, in the main, in the premium class heavy chassis markets for 4 wheelers, six wheelers, eight wheelers and artics. Neither of them ever had a serious presence in the premium medium weight class, which back in the day was massive, and dominated by Leyland (including Albion), AEC, Guy, and Seddon.
Your post is very interesting GF as I knew nothing about Fodens ! but I believe you are under stating the ERF production figures as I recall once attending a lunch in the later 70’s where Peter Foden was also present and I recall him telling me that ERF were producing 3000 chassis per year at that time and of this number there were 1500 ■■■■■■■■ 1000 Gardner and 500 RR. He also said that the biggest favour we as Hauliers could do ERF was to specify a ■■■■■■■ or RR engined chassis instead of clamouring for Gardner engine chassis ! He couldn’t have said a worse thing as it just convinced me that Scania was the way forward which ultimately happened ! Cheers Dennis.
I wonder if the Foden family’s from both company’s got on with each other ?
Not surprised that Elworth had the larger workforce, I went there many times and they had their own foundry (did ERF?) and also made their own cabs (apart from the Motor Panels ones presumably?) whereas ERF outscourced theirs from Jennings I believe? A Foden factory tour was very interesting, we went around there one evening in 1976 and a lot of it was very antiquated, plus the cab shop had several different types being produced at one time including the fibreglass S39 ones and the smell in there was awfull even though production for the day had finished several hours before our visit. They were still producing the two stroke engine in small quantities for the Navy, their rescue launches used them. I’m guessing that under Paccar ownership the workforce was greatly reduced though seeing as, like ERF, they became assemblers more than manufacturers?
I occasionally do vintage rallies with one of Fodens old line managers and I mentioned that I had once worked for Tilcon, he said they welcomed a big order from Tillings because if they got a ‘one off’ order for a basic eight wheeler tipper chassis (and most of Tilcons were very basic, forget all about fitting radios, air seats and cross locks etc! 
) from a new client they could simply divert one of ours so that the customer got his vehicle in double quick time and would be impressed! 
Pete.
The ERF registrations figure for 1981 was 1,180 chassis and production did increase through the 1980s, with employees figures peaking at around 850. I met Peter Foden on a few occasions and found him to be a straightforward type of man. 3,000 chassis per annum would have easily have put them into the best selling category, and its possible that they could have achieved that in the late '80s, their best years. When the ERF factory closed employee figures were roughly half the peak figures.
I will add that Foden’s definitely had the better works brass band of the two companies. 
windrush:
Not surprised that Elworth had the larger workforce, I went there many times and they had their own foundry (did ERF?) and also made their own cabs (apart from the Motor Panels ones presumably?) whereas ERF outscourced theirs from Jennings I believe? A Foden factory tour was very interesting, we went around there one evening in 1976 and a lot of it was very antiquated, plus the cab shop had several different types being produced at one time including the fibreglass S39 ones and the smell in there was awfull even though production for the day had finished several hours before our visit. They were still producing the two stroke engine in small quantities for the Navy, their rescue launches used them. I’m guessing that under Paccar ownership the workforce was greatly reduced though seeing as, like ERF, they became assemblers more than manufacturers?I occasionally do vintage rallies with one of Fodens old line managers and I mentioned that I had once worked for Tilcon, he said they welcomed a big order from Tillings because if they got a ‘one off’ order for a basic eight wheeler tipper chassis (and most of Tilcons were very basic, forget all about fitting radios, air seats and cross locks etc!
Pete.
There is often confusion about ERF and Jennings. This letter from Peter Foden himself states that ERF took over Jennings in the early '60s. Robert
Didn`t Foden build a new modern plant shortly before going bust?
ramone:
Didn`t Foden build a new modern plant shortly before going bust?
Your correct there “ramone” as I recall reading about the new moving track Fodens installed to speed up production, I reckon ERF should have taken them over after they went bust and they would have had an up to the minute production facility plus the two firms would have got back together after almost 50 years ! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
ramone:
Didn`t Foden build a new modern plant shortly before going bust?Your correct there “ramone” as I recall reading about the new moving track Fodens installed to speed up production, I reckon ERF should have taken them over after they went bust and they would have had an up to the minute production facility plus the two firms would have got back together after almost 50 years ! Cheers Dennis.
At least they would have had both companies interests at heart
ramone:
Bewick:
ramone:
Didn`t Foden build a new modern plant shortly before going bust?Your correct there “ramone” as I recall reading about the new moving track Fodens installed to speed up production, I reckon ERF should have taken them over after they went bust and they would have had an up to the minute production facility plus the two firms would have got back together after almost 50 years ! Cheers Dennis.
At least they would have had both companies interests at heart
I did an illustrated talk about Gardner Engines to the Foden Society at the Foden plant not long after Pacaar had invested quite a lot of money into the plant, including a new amenities block. My presentation took place in a state of the art lecture theatre, and the canteen, although not serving food whilst I was there, was very smart and well appointed.
gingerfold:
The ERF registrations figure for 1981 was 1,180 chassis and production did increase through the 1980s, with employees figures peaking at around 850. I met Peter Foden on a few occasions and found him to be a straightforward type of man. 3,000 chassis per annum would have easily have put them into the best selling category, and its possible that they could have achieved that in the late '80s, their best years. When the ERF factory closed employee figures were roughly half the peak figures.I will add that Foden’s definitely had the better works brass band of the two companies.
You may be interested to learn that Foden’s band are the current GB National Contest Champions, following their victory at the Albert Hall a few weeks ago 
GCR2ERF:
gingerfold:
The ERF registrations figure for 1981 was 1,180 chassis and production did increase through the 1980s, with employees figures peaking at around 850. I met Peter Foden on a few occasions and found him to be a straightforward type of man. 3,000 chassis per annum would have easily have put them into the best selling category, and its possible that they could have achieved that in the late '80s, their best years. When the ERF factory closed employee figures were roughly half the peak figures.I will add that Foden’s definitely had the better works brass band of the two companies.
You may be interested to learn that Foden’s band are the current GB National Contest Champions, following their victory at the Albert Hall a few weeks ago
I hope they can make a better tune than that of a Foden with gear cables
gingerfold:
The ERF registrations figure for 1981 was 1,180 chassis and production did increase through the 1980s, with employees figures peaking at around 850. I met Peter Foden on a few occasions and found him to be a straightforward type of man. 3,000 chassis per annum would have easily have put them into the best selling category, and its possible that they could have achieved that in the late '80s, their best years. When the ERF factory closed employee figures were roughly half the peak figures.I will add that Foden’s definitely had the better works brass band of the two companies.
I have just been having a “Butchers” at the ERF history site and it describes how in the later 70’s prior to the first Recession of 79/80/81&82 they were building 16 chassis per day which once the recession took hold they were only building 16 chassis per week. So taking the figure of 16 per day which was the period I was referring to so Peter Foden’s claim about the engine split between ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ & RR was about correct if you do the maths ! I was confident that that is what he told me but the passage of time can dull the memory ! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
gingerfold:
The ERF registrations figure for 1981 was 1,180 chassis and production did increase through the 1980s, with employees figures peaking at around 850. I met Peter Foden on a few occasions and found him to be a straightforward type of man. 3,000 chassis per annum would have easily have put them into the best selling category, and its possible that they could have achieved that in the late '80s, their best years. When the ERF factory closed employee figures were roughly half the peak figures.I will add that Foden’s definitely had the better works brass band of the two companies.
I have just been having a “Butchers” at the ERF history site and it describes how in the later 70’s prior to the first Recession of 79/80/81&82 they were building 16 chassis per day which once the recession took hold they were only building 16 chassis per week. So taking the figure of 16 per day which was the period I was referring to so Peter Foden’s claim about the engine split between ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ & RR was about correct if you do the maths ! I was confident that that is what he told me but the passage of time can dull the memory ! Cheers Dennis.
Didn’t they re-organise the production line when the B Series was introduced in 1975 to increase production?