newmercman:
And how did that work out for you? [emoji38]
Sorry NMM - just seen this. Please accept my outright apology for misrepresenting you. Robert 
First letter is the cab type.
L = 7LV or 8LV fibreglass cab.
M = MW steel cab.
N = MW ‘7MW European’ steel cab.
I wonder if this is where the idea that 7MWs were the only ones called ‘European’ comes from. This ‘European’ business continues to be a bit confusing, doesn’t it! Robert
robert1952:
newmercman:
And how did that work out for you? [emoji38]Sorry NMM - just seen this. Please accept my outright apology for misrepresenting you. Robert
I was pulling your leg mate, no need for apologies 
@ERF-P…thank you very much for posting your overview concerning types and relevant codes!
In the approx 10 books on ERF there was hardly information on types and now we can proceed.
robert1952:
Kenb:
robert1952:
Friday 13th isn’t yet over for the ERF NGC / 7MW. Amazingly, there is even more news. After reading this from ‘ERF’:5.34 Metre Wheelbase.
Despatched 22nd December 1977.
■■■■■■■ NTC E290, Engine Not Recorded. Gearbox - Fuller RT 9509A 54705. Axle ratio not recorded.Jerry Cooke rang me up with more interesting new about Falcon Freight. When he saw the 5.34 metre wheelbase it jogged his memory of seeing Falcon Freight NGCs in a grey livery hauling flat trailers for a cement plant in Jeddah. The thing he remembers especially is that they had enormous wheelbases and were driven by local drivers. He wonders if perhaps they were planning to add a second axle but didn’t bother in the end. Jerry was working in Jeddah for Trans Arabia on and off from '77 to '83 and he remembers them being there throughout this period.
This means that Falcon Freight did after all have a second depot (to their Dubai one) in Jeddah. I imagine that all five of the 2nd batch units went to Jeddah. It makes one wonder if there were not more cement plants around the Gulf being serviced by Falcon Freight with NGCs!
Jerry knew someone who serviced those lorries and he will try to get in touch with him for us. Thanks Jerry! Robert
Now Mr Gerry
You have thrown a spanner in the works!!!Jeddah never had a cement plant as such!!
In 1976 when I went all cement came in by ship and was helicoptered off the ships standing off port to a compound - the helicopters ran from dawn til dusk and were operated by ex Vietnam US pilots - there was a bagging plant in the port and the rebagged material was loaded onto local tonka wagons
Afterwards they brought in a bagging plant ship onto the key where the cement bulk carriers would berth alongside and the cement pumped off into the bagging plant and then onto local Tonka trucks again - quite a slick operation as in remember - but I cannot remember those ERF s !! Could be my ageing memory, pity Bill Smiths not around he would have known.Keep the the threads coming - I must get my photo gallery’s out
Cheers
Ken Broster
Thanks Ken! In fairness to Jerry, he did say that he couldn’t remember a cement plant but that there must have been one somewhere because of all the cement lorries! Now you have filled in the gaps. Cheers! Robert
Further thinking - yes it does happen at my age!! It was not uncommon for the local Tonka drivers to remove flat beds from rigids and put 5th wheels on - set well back on the chassis - so the steering when loaded was very light - so if those ERF’s were there, maybe they had originally planned for flat beds etc - it’s all subjective at this stage
Going back to those helicopters - there was a constant stream of helicopters running ship to shore carrying netted bags of cement some of which were burst and leaking into mid air, so you could constant cloud of cement dust - wonderful for the lungs
Cheers
Ken Broster
Kenb:
Further thinking - yes it does happen at my age!! It was not uncommon for the local Tonka drivers to remove flat beds from rigids and put 5th wheels on - set well back on the chassis - so the steering when loaded was very light - so if those ERF’s were there, maybe they had originally planned for flat beds etc - it’s all subjective at this stageGoing back to those helicopters - there was a constant stream of helicopters running ship to shore carrying netted bags of cement some of which were burst and leaking into mid air, so you could constant cloud of cement dust - wonderful for the lungs
Cheers
Ken Broster
Yes, I know what you mean about tonkas becoming tractive units. This practise is still commonplace in North Africa & the Middle-East. I suspect that those ERFs may have started life with the intention of becoming SWB draw-bar prime-movers, but ended up being Arab-style units. Who knows?! Cheers, Robert
ERF:
Here is our Saturday teaser gents…Chassis Nos. 30355 and 30256 were both 12’ wheelbase MCC402.060 units.
Both had ■■■■■■■ NHC 250 engines.
They were both despatched 6th June 1975 to the New Zealand dealer I, S & P.
Both were supplied with 9MW cabs!.OK, one could be a typo - but not both. They check out as 9MW on the service spares list as well.
What on earth is a 9MW cab ■■.
I have no record of one at all.I’ll lay down in a darkened room for today I think…
Two theories about the 9MW cab:
1). For NZ it would have been a RHD cab, so did ERF deem RHD 7MW cabs to be 9MWs, in which case was Pountain’s cab a 9MW?
2). Did ERF perhaps experiment with a Motor Panels Mark 5 cab and call it 9MW?
Just conjecture… Robert
A third theory about the 9MW cabs for NZ in 1975. There is no reason to suppose that a 9MW was necessarily derived from the 7MW cab, as both the ‘round-fronts’ and ‘square-fronts’ were being built at the same time; a 9MW might well look like a 5MW.
Here’s a picture of a book about NZ ERFs. I haven’t got this tome, but if anyone out there has, perhaps they could check it for any evidence of 1975 9MWs. Robert
With regard to Van Steenbergen of Arendonk, we have Wobbe Reitsma to thank for finding out that all their NGCs had ■■■■■■■ NTC 335s in them. We also have him to thank for the picture below. We have ‘ERF’ to thank for discovering that at least one of them had a Fuller RTO 9509A gearbox. It’s highly likely that all six of them had the same 'box, as 335s were normally matched to 9-sp Fullers in ERF NGCs. Robert
[PIC removed]
robert1952:
A third theory about the 9MW cabs for NZ in 1975. There is no reason to suppose that a 9MW was necessarily derived from the 7MW cab, as both the ‘round-fronts’ and ‘square-fronts’ were being built at the same time; a 9MW might well look like a 5MW.
Just my thought - my master parts lists don’t mention a 6MW cab, but we now know there were lots of them. They just mention the 4MW and list all the (what we now know are 6MW) updates as separate parts lists.
Could the 9MW have been the 5MW day cab?.
We know there were a number built (nowhere near as many as sleepers though), there is the photo of a 6 wheeler with one fitted in one of the other threads. My books don’t list a 9MW, but again they do list the separate parts for a set back axle MW day cab. Could this be the illusive 9MW?.
Interestingly the decode list I typed out yesterday makes no allowance at all for an MW day cab.
The two vehicles with the 9MW cabs are both designated MCC, which would indicate steel sleeper cabs from ERF’s own decode list, so without a photo of a known chassis numbered MW day cab, we are going to struggle to bottom this one out!.
robert1952:
With regard to Van Steenbergen of Arendonk, we have Wobbe Reitsma to thank for finding out that all their NGCs had ■■■■■■■ NTC 335s in them. We also have him to thank for the picture below. We have ‘ERF’ to thank for discovering that at least one of them had a Fuller RTO 9509A gearbox. It’s highly likely that all six of them had the same 'box, as 335s were normally matched to 9-sp Fullers in ERF NGCs. Robert0
Good team-work indeed and also nice a lot is confirmed now, more or less.
A minor remark…read what the driver-side mirror bears as printed marque…or what 3300 John said. what is in stock?
I’ve just been reading the RHD 5MW thread, which is quite interesting at the moment because CF is still championing the NGC (bless him) - you’ve got to admire his tenacity - and I just couldn’t resist imagining the following scenario.
I can see the newsflash in Commercial Motor 1977 now:
It has been announced that Mr. G. Carryfast of Surrey has bought out the BRS Continental Operations Division in a brave new push to ensure that Britain maintains a fair chunk of European traffic. Taking the bull firmly by the horns, his order for 200 ERF NGC 420 ‘European’ tractive units with ■■■■■■■ NTC 335 engines will raise a few eyebrows in Scandinavia. These comfortable, fast and sturdy units are thought likely to be popular with drivers, who are already queueing up for Continental service. Our informers in Germany report that Willi Betz has ordered a pair of brown trousers. Report by Robert1952
Robert 
ERF-Continental:
robert1952:
With regard to Van Steenbergen of Arendonk, we have Wobbe Reitsma to thank for finding out that all their NGCs had ■■■■■■■ NTC 335s in them. We also have him to thank for the picture below. We have ‘ERF’ to thank for discovering that at least one of them had a Fuller RTO 9509A gearbox. It’s highly likely that all six of them had the same 'box, as 335s were normally matched to 9-sp Fullers in ERF NGCs. Robert0
Good team-work indeed and also nice a lot is confirmed now, more or less.
A minor remark…read what the driver-side mirror bears as printed marque…or what 3300 John said. what is in stock?
Brilliant observation! Yes, it says ‘White’! Well, as you’ve pointed out recently, A-J, Van Steenbergen were certainly resourceful with their ERFs. Robert
ERF:
Could the 9MW have been the 5MW day cab?.
We know there were a number built (nowhere near as many as sleepers though), there is the photo of a 6 wheeler with one fitted in one of the other threads. My books don’t list a 9MW, but again they do list the separate parts for a set back axle MW day cab. Could this be the illusive 9MW?.Interestingly the decode list I typed out yesterday makes no allowance at all for an MW day cab.
The two vehicles with the 9MW cabs are both designated MCC, which would indicate steel sleeper cabs from ERF’s own decode list, so without a photo of a known chassis numbered MW day cab, we are going to struggle to bottom this one out!.
I agree: I’d put my money on the apparently 5MW day cab. Here’s a pic. Robert
NGC gearboxes @ 15/03/15
We need to refine information about NGC gearboxes. They either had 9-speed or 13-speed Fullers as far as we know (though I’m not sure what that NGC 852 supplied to Cauvas had). Normally, NTC 335s were coupled to 9-speeds and NTC 290s were coupled to 13-speeds. I’ve looked at my register of NGCs and come up with the following data about gearboxes.
Total number of units with unknown gearbox (including the Cauvas NGC 852, which might have had a 15-speed Fuller for all we know) = 29
Total number known to have 9-speed (including those that were later converted to 13-speed) = 19
Total number with NTC 335 engine assumed to have left ERF with a 9-speed ‘box = 38
Total number known to have NT E290 and 9-speed ‘box = 1
Total number known to have 13-speed (not including those that were later converted from 9-speed, but including those with NTC 335s with no proof of retro-fit conversion) = 10
Total number with NTC 335 and 13-speed ‘box with no proof of retro-fit conversion = 1
Total number known to have been retro-fit converted from 9-speed to 13-speed = 2
Total number known to have 13-speed (including those that were converted from 9-speed) = 12
Robert 
.
Carryfast:
robert1952:
I’ve just been reading the RHD 5MW thread, which is quite interesting at the moment because CF is still championing the NGC (bless him) - you’ve got to admire his tenacity - and I just couldn’t resist imagining the following scenario.I can see the newsflash in Commercial Motor 1977 now:
It has been announced that Mr. G. Carryfast of Surrey has bought out the BRS Continental Operations Division in a brave new push to ensure that Britain maintains a fair chunk of European traffic. Taking the bull firmly by the horns, his order for 200 ERF NGC 420 ‘European’ tractive units with ■■■■■■■ NTC 335 engines will raise a few eyebrows in Scandinavia. These comfortable, fast and sturdy units are thought likely to be popular with drivers, who are already queueing up for Continental service. Our informers in Germany report that Willi Betz has ordered a pair of brown trousers. Report by Robert1952
Robert
The following edition containing the correction that the order in question actually specifies the Big Cam ■■■■■■■ on the basis that it has already been proven in the US market as providing a significant improvement in fuel efficiency.There also seems to be a question concerning the possible significant understating of the numbers referred to in the order.The customer in question having accepted the advantages in standardising the fleet in terms of both continental and domestic operations.
However there now seems to be a threat to the closure of the deal after ERF’s management explained that production of the vehicle in question is about to be discontinued and they hope that the order can be transferred to the more technically advanced B series.While expressing incredulity at having missed the discount advantages in having not put the order in around a year or two ago and settling for the 5 MW with the long proven naturally aspirated ■■■■■■■ engine option.
But nothing daunted, the entrepeneurial Mr Carryfast, according to recent sources, brushed aside being fobbed off with 5MW-cabbed ‘Europeans’ with ■■■■■■■ NH220s and thumped a few tables. ‘It is now 1978. If Falcon Freight can have an NGC with a 7MW cab and a ■■■■■■■ NT E290 unit in Jeddah,’ he was heard to roar, ‘Then I can wave the flag for Britain with a large order of these big-cam block-busters’.
Meanwhile, in Germany, Willi Betz changed his order from ‘brown trousers’ to ‘brown corduory ones’ and asked to see his most modern up-to-date weapon against the ERF NGC ‘European’ (see pic below). Robert
FFS. The E290 was not available until 1978:
If vehicles were built with those engines before then, they would have been experimental prototypes, IE not available for general sale. Do not pander to the loon.
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