Even more NGC 7MW news, can you believe! It was nice to see this picture of KGH 250P pulling a 'fridge trailer in the latest REVS magazine. It was attached to a nice tribute to Richard Read senior, who passed away quite recently. I was fortunate enough briefly to interview him for my book: may he rest in peace.
The picture in the magazine is attributed to the John Yates collection but it is also in the Wobbe Reitsma collection.
Enjoy! Robert 
While Robert and Peterborough are investigating on the ‘last’ 5- and 7MW…I herewith post a
probably last ERF (then already affected by MAN) during a European Road Show for ■■■■■■■■
Perhaps nice to verify quantities of engines delivered in the ERF-decade since 1933: Gardner,
Perkins, Rolls Royce, ■■■■■■■■ Detroit, Atlantis…and perhaps some other strange ducks?
silly little drawing there Robert…you should think yourself the ERF register existed…nothing to do with REVs they had it given to them…
can you name another truck manufacturer that can come up with the spec of a lorry built 20 or 30 years ago well even 70ytears
youd spend a long time trying to find any documentation on a volvo built in 1974…i think id edit that photo
ERF did a good job for a long time IF Gardner had moved with the times and made the 450 ERF would have lasted longer…
by the way this is not a MW post its about ERF…
John
3300John:
silly little drawing there Robert…you should think yourself the ERF register existed…nothing to do with REVs they had it given to them…
can you name another truck manufacturer that can come up with the spec of a lorry built 20 or 30 years ago well even 70ytears
youd spend a long time trying to find any documentation on a volvo built in 1974…i think id edit that photo
ERF did a good job for a long time IF Gardner had moved with the times and made the 450 ERF would have lasted longer…
by the way this is not a MW post its about ERF…
John
Hello John! It was meant to be a ‘silly little drawing’. I was just making a very light-hearted attempt at poking fun at us lot running around like chickens without heads trying to find evidence. I was not having a pop at ERF, though I have to say, an awful lot more care could have been taken with preserving records - and if that goes for other manufacturers too then so be it: if the cap fits wear it!
Well, I suppose we have to be grateful that all the '70s ERF records were not on computers or we’d having nothing left at all. I pity the transport historians who seek to plot the models history of 21st century lorries! Robert 
In all fairness (this thread being the first) I got the strange feeling we are all awaiting the “verdict” with
regard to the “archives” of ERF, with or without being respectless (but grateful) towards the ones who did
preserve valuable documents and production-cards. It is at least STRANGE that no remarks (only two recent
pictures of current existing 5MW and 7MW) on the NGC or its predecessors are made on the REVS-website.
To be fair and honest…it should not be a very difficult task to split on types of chassis and cabs as with all
respect ERF was not that BIG…and we all might scrutinise on particular types. Since 2012 a nice thread
has been started by 380streamline and Robert did a wonderful job with getting others enthousiastic, we all
now know the vast majority of participants can be counted on two hands.
In other worthing: on the EUROPEAN NGC420 we roughly count/expect 70-100 vehicles known…let’s do it!!!
ERF-Continental:
In all fairness (this thread being the first) I got the strange feeling we are all awaiting the “verdict” with
regard to the “archives” of ERF, with or without being respectless (but grateful) towards the ones who did
preserve valuable documents and production-cards. It is at least STRANGE that no remarks (only two recent
pictures of current existing 5MW and 7MW) on the NGC or its predecessors are made on the REVS-website.To be fair and honest…it should not be a very difficult task to split on types of chassis and cabs as with all
respect ERF was not that BIG…and we all might scrutinise on particular types. Since 2012 a nice thread
has been started by 380streamline and Robert did a wonderful job with getting others enthousiastic, we all
now know the vast majority of participants can be counted on two hands.In other worthing: on the EUROPEAN NGC420 we roughly count/expect 70-100 vehicles known…let’s do it!!!
Good post! And thank you for your kind comments. I agree with the rest of it too. As A-J says: ‘lets’ do it!!!’ Robert
Interesting to note that from the unveiling of the ERF NGC on 19/01/73 to the despatch of the last one to Falcon Freight on 22/12/77 shows a full five-year production life span. Robert
Also interesting to note (from ‘ERF’s’ recent revelations) is that the day before the NGC 7MW cabbed model was unveiled on 19/01/73 the last 3MW unit was despatched and so was the first 5MW unit. So 18th January 1973 is a useful aide memoire for ERF cab purposes. Robert
More from the archives…
The first 7MW tilt cabbed ERF was definitely chassis 22993, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 tractor unit. Recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 1st October 1973 as a stock vehicle to ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ 623/629 Chausses de Haecht, Brussels 3, Belgium. This vehicle was subject to warranty claims for defects found on delivery, and on nine occasions subsequently, the last being the 10th March 1976.
Most of these related to the cab.
Interestingly the chassis number of this vehicle dates it to November / December 1971.
The chassis built either side of it were standard production ERF vehicles, ie just built and shipped out, and they both left the works in December 71.
That raises some questions.
The model was coded NCG420 at it’s 1971 conception. Did ERF build this first chassis and test it with a 3MW cab?. If so, it is not recorded. Again, at initial build it is recorded as being fitted with a 7MW ‘tilt’ cab - but that can’t be true as the cab did not appear from Motor Panels until mid 1972 did it?
Your thoughts please gents!.
Also - categorically there were NO Gardner engined 7MW’s at all.
Not one. The records have been searched, and returned nil results!.
There is also clear evidence of some UK operators trialing the 7MW NGC420 in their fleets, but returning them to the works and then ordering SP cabbed B’ Series. Why, we don’t know.
quote ERF
There is also clear evidence of some UK operators trialing the 7MW NGC420 in their fleets, but returning them to the works and then ordering SP cabbed B’ Series. Why, we don’t know.
Perhaps because all 7MW NGC420’s were LHD and those UK operators also had the 5MW’s? Hence the looks of a very mature cab-design, so time for
something new which the SP really was and offered?
A-J
ERF:
More from the archives…The first 7MW tilt cabbed ERF was definitely chassis 22993, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 tractor unit. Recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 1st October 1973 as a stock vehicle to ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ 623/629 Chausses de Haecht, Brussels 3, Belgium. This vehicle was subject to warranty claims for defects found on delivery, and on nine occasions subsequently, the last being the 10th March 1976.
Most of these related to the cab.Interestingly the chassis number of this vehicle dates it to November / December 1971.
The chassis built either side of it were standard production ERF vehicles, ie just built and shipped out, and they both left the works in December 71.That raises some questions.
The model was coded NCG420 at it’s 1971 conception. Did ERF build this first chassis and test it with a 3MW cab?. If so, it is not recorded. Again, at initial build it is recorded as being fitted with a 7MW ‘tilt’ cab - but that can’t be true as the cab did not appear from Motor Panels until mid 1972 did it?
Your thoughts please gents!.Also - categorically there were NO Gardner engined 7MW’s at all.
Not one. The records have been searched, and returned nil results!.There is also clear evidence of some UK operators trialing the 7MW NGC420 in their fleets, but returning them to the works and then ordering SP cabbed B’ Series. Why, we don’t know.
I have some thoughts arising from the above post.
The first NGC chassis being from 1971, when the first 7MW appeared in 1973 (perhaps built in '72): over the last couple of years it has seemed to me that all the NGCs had the heavy-duty ‘waisted’ chassis - you can tell by the angle of the diesel tank in most pictures. On paper (brochures), they were offered with straight-framed chassis but, like the Gardner engines, they appear not to have been ordered in practice. However, it is possible that that the demo chassis shown at Brussels in Jan '73 was an old straight-framed one. I’ve just looked at a press photo of it and it does look as if the diesel tank is exactly parallel with the chassis and not ‘angled in’ like the others - although that might just be an optical illusion; see what you think. Here’s the picture:
As for the Gardners, I’m just relieved that I was right in thinking that this option only existed on paper because it simply tidies things up by turning my speculation into history.
On the subject of NGCs being returned in exchange for B-series, there is some evidence that this was because the B-series was significantly more frugal - the old NTC 335 was a bit on the thirsty side.
Thanks for the updates ‘ERF’. Cheers! Robert
ERF:
…The first 7MW tilt cabbed ERF was definitely chassis 22993, a model NGC 420 - A6.4.CU335 tractor unit. Recorded as a ‘Show Vehicle’. Despatched ex Sun Works on the 1st October 1973 as a stock vehicle to ‘■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium’ 623/629 Chausses de Haecht, Brussels 3, Belgium. This vehicle was subject to warranty claims for defects found on delivery, and on nine occasions subsequently, the last being the 10th March 1976.
Most of these related to the cab.Interestingly the chassis number of this vehicle dates it to November / December 1971.
The chassis built either side of it were standard production ERF vehicles, ie just built and shipped out, and they both left the works in December 71.That raises some questions.
The model was coded NCG420 at it’s 1971 conception. Did ERF build this first chassis and test it with a 3MW cab?. If so, it is not recorded. Again, at initial build it is recorded as being fitted with a 7MW ‘tilt’ cab - but that can’t be true as the cab did not appear from Motor Panels until mid 1972 did it?
Your thoughts please gents!..
I’ll have a go at explaining this. I speculate that:
The vehicle was a development prototype. Although production (or pre-production) cabs did not come from MP until much later, ERF’s engineers would have needed at least one chassis to experiment with. Likewise, there would have been one or more prototype tilt cabs built, long before the design was signed off for production. I guess that, if the prototype emerged from the development process in a useable condition, it would have been used for something. It may have been monitored closely in service, so any design faults could be identified as soon as possible. The instruction to CDB may have been to return the vehicle if anything unusual happened to it, hence the warranty claims.
That’s a possibility. The possibility that an early waisted chassis with provision for a tilt cab was built in preparation is entirely realistic because ERF was building the waisted chassis in 1971. Furthermore, I have looked at the b&w photo above with a magnifying glass and I think that the tank is, after all, angled in towards the rear mudguard signifying a waisted chassis (compare the imaginary line that runs down the length of the tank retaining straps and the imaginary line that runs from the front wheel to the rear one. Robert
Regardless of our glasses…be assured that NO Gardner-engine was installed in the chassis on the Brussels’ Show
as then ■■■■■■■ would beat with CDB (■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium) having lost the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
In all fairness, before the archeologists started (I do appreciate their input and posts) to dig into the archives,
I had the feeling their would be a kind of strategic plan, hence marketing and production, but the gaps in the
various chassisnumbers make me believe that ERF was one of the first with refurbishing chassis towards what
at the end the market or a customer wanted and liked.
A gap of about 5.000 vehicles (with all respect I assume ERF was good for 20 vehicles a day) an entire year of
production is ‘hidden’ by finally delivering a chassis…by no means there were claims with Van Steenbergen on
the 7MW-cab nor the chassis…moreover, they were quite capable of handling odd situations on lorries though.
I notice the Gardner was also mentioned in the Dutch brochure…
ERF:
I notice the Gardner was also mentioned in the Dutch brochure…
So is the ■■■■■■■ NH250. Were any of these actually sold?
The '73 Dutch brochure offers NH 240; NTC 290 and 8LXB (as alternatives to the NTC 335).
The '73 English brochure offers NH 250; NTC 290 and 8LXB (as alternatives to the NTC 335).
The '74 Dutch brochure offers NH 250 and NTC 290(as alternatives to the NTC 335).
The '74 English brochure offers NH 250 and NTC 290(as alternatives to the NTC 335).
The '75 Dutch brochure offers NH 250 and NTC 290 (as alternatives to the NTC 335).
The '75 English brochure offers NH 250 and NTC 290(as alternatives to the NTC 335).
The French copy of the Driver’s Handbook makes no mention of Gardner.
Never heard of any NGCs with NH 250s in (or 240s). Robert
I want to bring up the slightly prickly subject of the ERF ‘European’ name.
To set the scene, here’s what I wrote near the beginning of this thread:
Significantly, I have discounted the use of the name ‘European’ on its own to describe this truck because there were arguably three ‘European’ models: the 5MW-cabbed version, the 7MW-cabbed version (NGC) and the B-series version. All three of these, in left-hand-drive form, were launched by ERF as ‘Europeans’, but only the NGC appears to have been continuously marketed with that name. For a brief period during 1976/7 all three were built alongside each other. These ‘Europeans’ were all left-hand-drive, upgraded long-haul models which were designed very specifically for the European market. References to the launch of the 5MW ‘European’ appear in ERF’s in-house magazine, Chassis, issue no.18 summer 1971. References to the launch of the B-series ‘European’ appear in an article by Phil Read in Motor Transport 20th May 1977.
Although one or two have raised the odd eyebrow at this, nobody has yet challenged it. And now we appear to have a fourth ‘European’ in the shape of the early 3MW-cabbed variety.
Somebody (was it John3300?) once ascerted that there was only one real ‘European’ and that was the one with the 7MW cab. The trouble is that over the years, all the steel cabbed sleepers ended up being called Europeans (or Belgian cab) so the whole thing is clouded by a sort of folk-myth!
I am happy to be challenged further on this, as I have no axe to grind on the subject. I would just say that my evidence for the B-series being a ‘European’ is rather flimsy and I doubt if anyone truely regards it as being one. Robert
robert1952:
I want to bring up the slightly prickly subject of the ERF ‘European’ name.To set the scene, here’s what I wrote near the beginning of this thread:
Significantly, I have discounted the use of the name ‘European’ on its own to describe this truck because there were arguably three ‘European’ models: the 5MW-cabbed version, the 7MW-cabbed version (NGC) and the B-series version. All three of these, in left-hand-drive form, were launched by ERF as ‘Europeans’, but only the NGC appears to have been continuously marketed with that name. For a brief period during 1976/7 all three were built alongside each other. These ‘Europeans’ were all left-hand-drive, upgraded long-haul models which were designed very specifically for the European market. References to the launch of the 5MW ‘European’ appear in ERF’s in-house magazine, Chassis, issue no.18 summer 1971. References to the launch of the B-series ‘European’ appear in an article by Phil Read in Motor Transport 20th May 1977.
Although one or two have raised the odd eyebrow at this, nobody has yet challenged it. And now we appear to have a fourth ‘European’ in the shape of the early 3MW-cabbed variety.
Somebody (was it John3300?) once ascerted that there was only one real ‘European’ and that was the one with the 7MW cab. The trouble is that over the years, all the steel cabbed sleepers ended up being called Europeans (or Belgian cab) so the whole thing is clouded by a sort of folk-myth!
I am happy to be challenged further on this, as I have no axe to grind on the subject. I would just say that my evidence for the B-series being a ‘European’ is rather flimsy and I doubt if anyone truely regards it as being one. Robert
The more important question is why were ERF applying obvious double standards as to what was ‘perceived’ as being good for ‘Europe’ but obviously ‘too good’ for ‘this part’ of ‘Europe’ as it supposedly was from 1973. 
