ERF 'European' (1975)

Saviem:
Evening Gentlemen…the Journalists…

Well, perhaps I should be a little cautious at this juncture…having enjoyed/endured/enraged(because of my comments…critical at the most mild) , various scribes, and their “distinct” driving styles over a fair few years, perhaps I should declare my rather reserved opinions…

By far, the average UK “journalist” would exceed his mainland counterpart by far, in extracting from the test vehicle, its best/worst features. It came from a distinctly different set of parameters in their reporting style…in the UK you were evaluating a vehicle to very “critical” readers, (engaged in a far more competitive market place,than mainland Europe). And in the main, “nationalistic” fervour was ignored.

Most had some form of engineering background, John Barras ex Dodge, Graham Montgomerie, ex Leyland, Pat, ex Leyland,John Dickinson Simpson, Anthony, P (Tony), Wilding, Mike , (cruncher) Cunningham, all the way from the Isle of Wight objective in the extreme, and determined to do their best for both Manufacturer, and vitaley, their readers.
When that doyen of the motor Press, Iain Sheriff appointed a young photographer Brian Weatherley as his successor, as editor of Commercial Motor he made a good choice.

Now as to our European friends…

Apologies, have to go, a major problem down on the Water Meadows…will finish up later…

Ah-ha, the water meadows, Monsieur Saviem! Don’t want big, heavy, green bales to lug about later… My father was the chief sub-editor on Farmers Weekly in Fleet Street before it decamped to ‘Slurry House’. Before that he was sub-editor on the Farming Express, also in Fleet St. Alas, he is no longer with us; but for the last four decades of his life he was a very fine craft potter! So now you know where I got the blue-print for switching from being a head-teacher to a long-haul trucker and back again! :laughing: Robert

[quote="ro

3300John:
Hiya…Robert the Foden with the extended front was for the 240 Gardner and the 350 ■■■■■■■■ on the S 80 (large headlights) the front was also protruding to fit in the Gardner 240…
John

Cheers for that, John. ‘Zb Anorak’ made a significant remark that I suspect resonates among many of us: why such a pronounced protrusion? You have already explained to us why there was a protrusion at all; but if you look at the much less pronounced (and, in my view, more attractive) protrusion on the Scammell Crusader, which used the same tall version of the mark 4 Motor Panels cab, you could be forgiven for wondering why ERF put such a podgy front end on the 7MW! Robert

Robert if your love affair with erf is so deep and you think so much about the mark ,why when u was running your own truck you didnt u have a erf ,instead of a iveco eurostar what were complete dogs :frowning: :frowning: i would have thought a erf olympic would have been more up your street :unamused: :unamused:

seth 70:
Robert if your love affair with erf is so deep and you think so much about the mark ,why when u was running your own truck you didnt u have a erf ,instead of a iveco eurostar what were complete dogs :frowning: :frowning: i would have thought a erf olympic would have been more up your street :unamused: :unamused:

Spot-on question Seth70! The answer is that I bought an Iveco that I was already driving and knew about. My first thought, when deciding to go ‘Owner-driver’, was to buy an ERF Olympic exactly as you suggest. The thing is, I would have had to find an EC14 to compare with my Eurostar, and EC14s were already out of fashion. The 14 litre low-tech ‘Fiat’ engine in my Iveco, coupled to an extraordinarily well-installed Eaton Twin-splitter meant that the Iveco already met my needs. I’ve driven many ERF ECs, and I enjoyed them, but to be honest I never really liked the way the ■■■■■■■ ‘Select’ hi-tech engine communicated with the Eaton Twin-splitter. Frankly, the Iveco was a far nicer drive. As far as I am concerned the last good ERFs (for me) were the E-series, BUT I have a strong suspicion that the early low-tech EC14s with the non-select ■■■■■■■ would have been ideal for me - however, I never drove one! I hope that fully answers your interesting question! Robert

robert1952:

seth 70:
Robert if your love affair with erf is so deep and you think so much about the mark ,why when u was running your own truck you didnt u have a erf ,instead of a iveco eurostar what were complete dogs :frowning: :frowning: i would have thought a erf olympic would have been more up your street :unamused: :unamused:

Spot-on question Seth70! The answer is that I bought an Iveco that I was already driving and knew about. My first thought, when deciding to go ‘Owner-driver’, was to buy an ERF Olympic exactly as you suggest. The thing is, I would have had to find an EC14 to compare with my Eurostar, and EC14s were already out of fashion. The 14 litre low-tech ‘Fiat’ engine in my Iveco, coupled to an extraordinarily well-installed Eaton Twin-splitter meant that the Iveco already met my needs. I’ve driven many ERF ECs, and I enjoyed them, but to be honest I never really liked the way the ■■■■■■■ ‘Select’ hi-tech engine communicated with the Eaton Twin-splitter. Frankly, the Iveco was a far nicer drive. As far as I am concerned the last good ERFs (for me) were the E-series, BUT I have a strong suspicion that the early low-tech EC14s with the non-select ■■■■■■■ would have been ideal for me - however, I never drove one! I hope that fully answers your interesting question! Robert

You have baffled me with ■■■■■■■■ ,but i get your gist ,i think , :unamused: :unamused:

seth 70:
You have baffled me with [zb] ,but i get your gist ,i think , :unamused: :unamused:

The bottom line is that the old ex-Fiat 14 litre engine, Twin-splitter gearbox and strong Iveco chassis were superb. Everyone remembers that the cab build-quality was crap and the back-up wasn’t brilliant either, but the running gear on those Ivecos was good. Jeff Elliot’s descriptions of his old Turbostars bears this out on this forum. To be honest, this isn’t an ‘either-or’ argument: if I had already been driving a good EC that I could have bought out of service (as I did the Iveco), I’m sure that would have satisfied me too.

My ‘love-affair’ is not actually with ERF at all, by the way. It is with Fuller / Eaton manual constant-mesh gearboxes that are beautifully installed, well-matched to a really good engine, in the context of a comfortable cab with a satisfying driving position. It just so happens that several ERF models fall into that category, but you never hear me singing the praises of an ECX!

Robert

robert1952:
… but if you look at the much less pronounced (and, in my view, more attractive) protrusion on the Scammell Crusader, which used the same tall version of the mark 4 Motor Panels cab, you could be forgiven for wondering why ERF put such a podgy front end on the 7MW! Robert

While 3300John’s detailing of the structure of the cab may account for some of the extra length, the main culprit is the stylist. The ‘A’ post on the Motor Panels cab leans backwards from the bottom of the cab all the way up. The front panel on the Crusader, the Seddon and the 1/3/4/5MV/W is parallel to the ‘A’ post. In addition, the front panel is curved in plan view. However, on the 7MW and this:


the stylist has attempted to put a flat (IE no curvature in plan view), vertical front panel on the cab. This leads to a large step below the windscreen, which is even more pronounced at the corners, leading to the appearance of a protrusion. The sharp edges only serve to highlight it:

ALTRO_ERF_EXP.jpg

Here is a period ERF NGC 420 advert for Harry:

swiss spoof.jpg

Robert :laughing:

I was glancing though my ‘central gallery’ of NGC images this evening and I spotted 3 otherwise unrelated pictures that are interesting when put together. All three show the distinctive shape of the waisted NGC chassis. The first is a Mick Jones photo of an overturned NGC in Saudi, the second is a detail from from an ERF sales brochure and the third picture is a '73 lubrication diagram thoughtfully contributed earlier to this thread by ‘ERF-Continental’. Robert :slight_smile:

Pic 1 015.jpg


ERF-European-Lubrication-chart-1973.jpg

Adventures with an ERF NGC: Part 6.

Our intrepid NGC driver had the ‘old bill’ on his tail. He knew damned well he shouldn’t have roared through that village at 45kph and crossed that 10t bridge over the river. Never mind, he must press on. Nervously glancing in the mirror to make sure the law wasn’t pursuing him he headed for the next mountain where he knew that the ■■■■■■■ 335 would keep him climbing fast.

He hit the first ‘hairpin’ and dropped a couple of gears, before accelerating hard to the next one. As he straightened, he caught that terrifying glimpse of a green polizei car in his mirror and his heart missed a beat. Approaching the next bend, he got a better view of his pursuer……

tyk.jpg

….now he knew for sure that it would be a good day after all, so he sat back and rolled a cigarette while the big ■■■■■■■ rumbled away. Robert :laughing:

robert1952:
Adventures with an ERF NGC: Part 6.

Our intrepid NGC driver had the ‘old bill’ on his tail. He knew damned well he shouldn’t have roared through that village at 45kph and crossed that 10t bridge over the river. Never mind, he must press on. Nervously glancing in the mirror to make sure the law wasn’t pursuing him he headed for the next mountain where he knew that the ■■■■■■■ 335 would keep him climbing fast.

1

He hit the first ‘hairpin’ and dropped a couple of gears, before accelerating hard to the next one. As he straightened, he caught that terrifying glimpse of a green polizei car in his mirror and his heart missed a beat. Approaching the next bend, he got a better view of his pursuer……

0

….now he knew for sure that it would be a good day after all, so he sat back and rolled a cigarette while the big ■■■■■■■ rumbled away. Robert :laughing:

Not so fast Englander.

Das ist der Schweizer strassen Polizei with their environmentally friendly pursuit interceptor and the ERF in question is Harry’s heap which as we all know won’t reach the top of the pass before it let’s go in a big way. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

Dear long-suffering bloggers and readers of this illustrious thread, if you will permit me ramble for a moment. I know we’ve discussed the subject of poor ERF back-up in Europe and beyond ad nauseam already, but with some excellent input from ‘ZbAnorak’, ‘Carryfast’, ‘Saviem’ and several others; however, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

An interesting question occurs to me: could British international operators have been ERF’s greatest ambassadors if ERF had made the NGC ‘European’ available from 1973 instead of 1975? And if so, would those two years have made any difference? Personally, I doubt it: UK operators could still buy the fixed-cab 5MW version of the ‘European’ but there was very little take-up — Beresford, S Jones, Richard Read/Vijore, Cadwallader, Partrick — only about 6 or so, then. When the NGC came along with its much-improved tilting cab only about twice that number sold in the UK. And only a similar number of LHD B-series units then sold in the UK after that.

These were really good lorries! It simply had to be about back-up down the road didn’t it? But WERE they such good lorries? We know that they were well-engineered, but were they well enough ‘put together’? We have a reliable witness in blogger ‘Harry’ that the two Swiss examples were not well-assembled. Poor assembly has dogged many a good lorry and I earlier made reference to my otherwise well-engineered Iveco ‘Eurostar’ that suffered from the same malaise.

The signature at the bottom of my posts, declares the NGC to be a ‘Kilmarnoch to Karachi’ machine because one of them actually made it to Karachi. But Coleman drove a 1922 Austin Seven to China: ANY lorry can do that distance but how many breakdowns would an ERF NGC suffer on a return journey to Karachi, compared to a Scania 140? This question is unanswerable because no two similar journeys are ever alike in terms of breakdowns.

I’ll bet you a pound to a pinch of camel sh*t that no one has ever produced lifetime breakdown distribution profiles on vehicles so that comparisons can be made (someone prove me wrong here!). We only have empirical evidence based on our memories. For example, I successively owned 4 Austin Maxis and 4 Volvo estate cars. The Maxis broke down as often as they could possibly contrive, and the Volvos just never broke down (my Volvo 960 GLE never broke down once in the six years I owned it, and it was already old when I acquired it).

Poor assembly is probably a much more important factor than I have been giving it credit for, in my eulogies of my ‘beloved’ NGC! I drove that Iveco ‘Eurostar’ of mine for four and half years and in that time the superb 14-litre engine, superb Eaton Twin-splitter gearbox, axles and chassis never failed once. But bits dropped off it regularly! At least two starter-motors packed up, the turbo came adrift, the climate-control matrix used to disintegrate, the curtain tracking used to drop into my lap every night, the driver’s door blew off when the wind caught it, air-driers didn’t last two minutes and countless other build-quality related things used to go wrong. It wasn’t about preventative maintenance either, because the unit was well cared for. Nonetheless, that ‘Eurostar’ was brilliant to drive; it saw me through three trips to the Arabian Gulf; it did eight years on the gruelling North Africa run and finished its tenth year with me on European work. Lorries are vulnerable creatures and none is immune to breakdown in arduous conditions.

In the end, I think blogger ‘Harry’ has got it right: a truck is either reliable enough to be economically viable, or it isn’t - discerning operators will always vote with their feet. This is why I am no longer an O/D, but just a romantic old fool who wants to drive ERF NGCs to Karachi or Shanghai!

This is where the human factor will always queer the pitch. Choosing a vehicle that is delightful (and fun) to drive and also ‘looks the part’, that is ALSO the best economical option is our constant quest for that mythical ultimate long-hauler.
Evolution has handed us a new generation of soul-less lorries, but they’re only ‘soul-less’ to those of us who drove B-series ERFs (or similar). I expect B-series ERFs were considered soul-less by ERF KV drivers in 1975 — it’s all relative!
Just draw up a list of all the lorries you’d love to drive from Barnsley to Brighton and compare it with your list of lorries you’d be prepared to drive from Sheffield to Shanghai. I’ll bet they’re not the same!

There are a lot of ‘dreamers’ on this forum (as opposed to hard-nosed businessmen like ‘Bewick’ who successfully operated transport), and I’m one of those dreamers; but at least I made many of my dreams come true, in that I ran my own wagon for a while and I did Middle-East /North Africa for several years besides — and, for pudding, I even kept my foot in the education door. If I could have my time all over again I would change nothing: I saw some of the best of transport and some of the best of teaching — and I hope that my nearly 1500 posts reflects that! Robert :smiley:

Thanks for the compliment Robert, but my “excellent input” is ten percent working knowledge and ninety percent enthusiasm!

Referring to the “poor assembly” issue, modern engineering thinking dictates that the quality problems are designed in. Details on the drawings, inspection procedures, quality plans and people just doing it without breaking the rules are the difference between a reliable machine and a lash-up (or: a Volvo car and a Maxi, a Toyota and a Land Rover, an F89 and an NGC420). It needs lots of brains in the office and enough good work going out of the factory door to pay for them. The now-defunct British firms did not recognise this.

Carryfast:

robert1952:
Adventures with an ERF NGC: Part 6.

Our intrepid NGC driver had the ‘old bill’ on his tail. He knew damned well he shouldn’t have roared through that village at 45kph and crossed that 10t bridge over the river. Never mind, he must press on. Nervously glancing in the mirror to make sure the law wasn’t pursuing him he headed for the next mountain where he knew that the ■■■■■■■ 335 would keep him climbing fast.

1

He hit the first ‘hairpin’ and dropped a couple of gears, before accelerating hard to the next one. As he straightened, he caught that terrifying glimpse of a green polizei car in his mirror and his heart missed a beat. Approaching the next bend, he got a better view of his pursuer……

0

….now he knew for sure that it would be a good day after all, so he sat back and rolled a cigarette while the big ■■■■■■■ rumbled away. Robert :laughing:

Not so fast Englander.

Das ist der Schweizer strassen Polizei with their environmentally friendly pursuit interceptor and the ERF in question is Harry’s heap which as we all know won’t reach the top of the pass before it let’s go in a big way. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

That black and white snap is Hans Burkhard at the wheel. He was v.short btw.and had a white beard.

Sitting here under the dusty palms and cascades of magenta bougainvillea among the fountains of the candle-lit ‘Seven Veils’ in Cairo, I am pondering on the ERF NGC (as, I am sure, are all the Egyptians around me). The temperature lingers still in the forties and Arab music spills into the velvety evening from the grand piano in the corner.

Benkku’s fantasy Astran NGC drawing drifts into my consciousness, evoking the dreamy conjunction of Astran and ERF ‘European’. It’s all the Nile water they put in this Egyptian beer, you know - gives me strange notions!

Consider for a moment this Astran Scania 140 in the short-lived but rather tasteful brown and cream livery…

Now NGCs fell easily within the period of this livery in the mid to late '70s. Shamara’s 6x4 NGC was the only SWB conversion that we know about. Benkku’s drawing wasn’t so far-fetched after all. But for a quirk of fate, that unit might have fallen into the hands of an enterprising O/D to operate it as a brown and cream Astran subbie’s motor. Just add the livery, Kaisor, visor and a matching Astran brown and cream TIR-tilt and you’ve got the ultimate ‘Sandbach Scania’ long-hauler. I want one! Robert :laughing:


Astran ERF NGC 420 drawing.jpg

Sorry to use this thread for a message but need to contact En-Tour-Age urgently with the following :-

Hi there En-Tour-Age,

Wonder if you can help me. In the early 70’s I used to have my Mack R600 truck serviced at Van Hove in Brussels before they moved to Kobbegem. I am writing a thread called ‘My First Continental Job’ and I am stuck for the address of their original premises. It was in one of the suburbs but if you can locate it for me I would be very grateful!

Andy

1-Scania_140_Astran_1.jpg

Rotten looking trailer,I wonder what that floor looked like?

PS.That magenta bougainvillea can be dangerous stuff with spikes an inch long.

1-Scania_140_Astran_1.jpg

1-Scania_140_Astran_1.jpg

1-erf5.jpg

1-erf5.jpg

1-Astran%20ERF%20NGC%20420%20drawing.jpg

Well, I like the blurry Benkku one - it gives an impression of suitably indecent haste! Robert :laughing: