ERF-continental, many thanks for your info, I will respond seperate to your email and highly appreciate
your contribution to this thread! Van Steenbergen is quite familiar to me as I often tried to pursuade
them to try/purchase Mack’s however they sticked to ■■■■■■■ then having more than 30 years of non-
problem experience and a very good relation to the Denonville-brothers! Also Foden did not work out,
strange as CDB did Foden themselves later, but due to bad Gardner-experience and lack of spares.
Their experience with other US-trucks (Kenworth-tractor and GMC-tipper with GARWOOD-body) was
not that good, but the door was open for visits there. Even in Turnhout Gillis-Cos was convinced by the
fact that Van Steenbergen was CDB-minded and purchased some White’s. In the eastern part of Belgium
I frequently experienced strong competition on Mack as CDB offered tailor-made Autocar and White
(Construcktor) at attractive conditions and service locally! They had a branch-workshop for Cockerill as
the ran quite some ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ locomotives for their steel-works and insisted on local service.
Large construction-companies as Sogetra, Betonac and others were confident CDB offered the best!
robert1952:
ERF-Continental:
Alexander, I am happy you joined with good feedback and new information! Could not agree more on REVS as I had several
attempts to share information/documentation but strange enough without the expected acceptance nor co-operation. Good
to hear Robert has/had some influence/contact with them but to me they are TOTALLY not impressed by this heritage and
piggyback a lot on what WAS written, even with quite a lot of discrepancies in the relevant articles, e.g. Wobbe Reitsma as
a good friend of Robert and without him (to be expected) book would be ‘only’ a déja-vu on some early volumes of REVS.I meanwhile emailed you an extraction of the CDB-files on Belgium/Luxemburg on both 5MW, 7MW and B-series sales-figures.
Not bad to experience CDB was that active, even in Holland and France then!
I won’t argue with you about your experiences of REVS. Perhaps the chairman should answer your concerns on this thread. Your remark about the extent of Wobbe Reitsma’s influence on my book is a little insulting, and certainly untrue. Although I gained a colossal amount from him, I had researched and written much of the book before I was put in touch with him. It mustn’t be assumed that the timeline started with Wobbe. In fact, I had already interviewed Jerry Cooke and written up much of the UK and Middle-East stuff first. Then Wobbe met Jerry by chance at a show and my details were handed over. It was Wobbe, not REVS, who gave me the articles. Robert
Perhaps NOW the moment that the REVS-chairman gives an introduction and not a disguised presence till now?
3300John:
Hiya Robert. you mention the ERF letters going missing of the lorries, this was not a manufacturing fault but more
of a little “bratt” Fault, where kids tried to pull the letters off and pulling apart the construction of the letters,
in the 70,s you saw many lorries with little white blocks bolted where the letters would have been the letter had
been tugged off. later E series had the large logo backed with plastic coloured lines fitted in the top corner of the
grill that was inpossable to nick. it seems ERF had tried to overcome this little problem.
John
Ah! So that was it. I expect the little [zb]s had run out of Atkinsons and Mercedes to pull the round shiny things off! I should never have doubted ERF build-quality for a moment! 
Robert
En-Tour-Age:
As I am “new” over here but quite an oldtimer with 64 years on the clock…I appreciate and comfort the clarification to be crisp for both cab- and chassis-
typification, preventing all of us assume on ourselves. Actually this extensive thread (a compliment to all contributors to produce this number of pages on a
‘single’ type of lorry) should result in a good summary, to avoid polution with wrong data and assumptions later corrected or clarified.Then hand it over to appropriate responsible people of REVS as YOU all here did research and unfortunately not the development, but with thanks to the late
Mr. Sheratt, Turner and Cooke! Further all operators gave their valued feed back out of operation, however ears and eyes shut when feedback from Europe
as of the continent, where the majority of NGC’s went…
I stand by what I originally wrote:
‘This model had what was essentially an A-series chassis; albeit a highly-developed, very sophisticated, top-of-the-range, left-hand-drive, intercontinental one. When ERF started building ‘Europeans’ with 5MW cabs in 1971 they used the A-series chassis, gave it LHD and modified it to European standards. ERF called it the latest A-series in its Earls Court brochure. This process evolved the following year with the introduction of a heavy-duty version of the chassis which ERF, in its 1972 Earls Court brochure, described as the new A-series configuration. A year later, in 1973, the luxurious tilting 7MW-cabbed version was unveiled with that same ‘new A-series’ chassis (unchanged apart from an improved air-filter system). Throughout this brief evolution ERF was clearly marketing an evolving A-series based tractor.’
I stand y that line about the B-series tractive unit basically having an A-series chassis too. Actually, I got that information from a senior REVS member who has worked on ERFs all his life, and whose information is very reliable. It certainly wasn’t me making ‘assumptions’. If you look at the chassis diagrams of A and B-series 4x2 units you could be forgiven for thinking that there was little difference. The esteemed Pat Kennett in his book World Trucks: ERF wrote this on page 45:
‘With a whole range of new and up-to-date engineering tried and proven in the A-series, it was in 1974 the B-series made its bow. Chassis engineering was based on the A-series with some changes like the chassis frame width which was reduced to 37 inches from 40 inches, mainly to accept the large 12.00 tyres demanded in some applications.’
Robert
tetragaz:
excellent pics Robert, keep’em comin,cheers
gaz
You’re welcome! I’m doing my best, but this thread’s becoming an uphill battle at the moment. Robert
By the way, I notice quite a few harsh words from abroad about REVS. In order to be in a position to be so outspokenly critical, I imagine that you are members; that you have tried through the proper channels to gain the cooperation you desire; and that you have attempted to use the contacts given in the regular magazine. REVS has over 650 members, but it must not be assumed that they all (including the chairman) use TruckNet. Robert
@Robert: well, you yourself brought in your good experience and contacts with REVS and perhaps
it had all to do with a sort of patriotism or ‘desinterest’ on export-models outside GB? I was some
years a member of Dutch CONAM and was not very impressed with the depth in Revs-articles and
remember exchange of information/documentation was not ‘appreciated’ to say the least. Well,
perhaps with 650 Revs-members, there should/could be more facts to input here as you are very
much the ‘padre familias’ on all ERF-threads? Convince them that their knowledge is appreciated!!!
@ERF-Continental: I recall Rynart Trucking being one of the first Middle-East-operators (same time
as Centrum Transport of Daris-family of Valkenswaard) with quite some Zwaans-Mack’s and some-
where there is an article on them testing an ERF-European, I think it was in “Transmobiel”-magazine.
I however miss this company in your sales-listing, so it will not have succeeded in a purchase at last.
Alexander
En-Tour-Age:
@Robert: well, you yourself brought in your good experience and contacts with REVS and perhaps
it had all to do with a sort of patriotism or ‘desinterest’ on export-models outside GB? I was some
years a member of Dutch CONAM and was not very impressed with the depth in Revs-articles and
remember exchange of information/documentation was not ‘appreciated’ to say the least. Well,
perhaps with 650 Revs-members, there should/could be more facts to input here as you are very
much the ‘padre familias’ on all ERF-threads? Convince them that their knowledge is appreciated!!!@ERF-Continental: I recall Rynart Trucking being one of the first Middle-East-operators (same time
as Centrum Transport of Daris-family of Valkenswaard) with quite some Zwaans-Mack’s and some-
where there is an article on them testing an ERF-European, I think it was in “Transmobiel”-magazine.
I however miss this company in your sales-listing, so it will not have succeeded in a purchase at last.Alexander
You may be right, but I would not assume patriotism (because export models should appeal to patriots!) or disinterest, even though it is tempting to do so. I think it is simply because no one is out there who knows much about this stuff. Once the export vehicles left these shores, they went off the radar so to speak; and the only people concerned with them were those involved in after care, most of whom are dead and gone I imagine. Like you, I was tempted to blame the disinterested: when I started researching my book, I placed a request for information about the ‘ERF 7MW European’ in REVS magazine. Apart from the fantastic amount of material I got from senior REVS member Jerry Cooke, I received a ZERO response, and I believe that was because hardly anyone knows about them. I also placed a notice in Classic Truck and received one single response: from Philippe Mathurin in France!!
One of the reasons I chose to write about this model, is that I perceived that there was nothing available on the market. The reason why I shared every scrap of knowledge that I could find about the NGC with this thread (instead of hoarding it all up as a secret for my forthcoming book), was that I calculated that if I ‘educated’ the ERF enthusiast community as I went along, it would encourage them to become interested and start discovering new items to share with the thread. This ploy paid off, because it has resulted in some amazing contributions. The downside of sharing, however, has been that it attracted petty comments about the book’s progress from one quarter: well, we can’t win 'em all. It has been worth it for the greater good of creating a wider awareness of the ERF on the Continent.
This also encouraged vital contacts on the Continent, like Wobbe Reitsma, Philippe Mathurin, Eric Tip-top and even Albert-Jan (ERF-Continental, before he started to get disillusioned) to make valuable contributions - either directly by posting, or through me via emails. We actually need the aid of road transport historians from Belgium, France and Holland far more than you realise: REVS isn’t hiding a database - there isn’t one!
Thank you for your interest. Robert
PS! I’d go as far as to say that this thread is unique in that it almost certainly forms the single most comprehensive data-base about the ERF ‘Europeans’ on the planet. Robert 
robert1952:
PS! I’d go as far as to say that this thread is unique in that it almost certainly forms the single most comprehensive data-base about the ERF ‘Europeans’ on the planet. Robert
Good work Robert, much appreciated by me… Colin.
An indeed good result, however a restricted group-effort!
I meanwhile worked with Continental on the REVS-data-base that EXISTS,
but unfortunately without a owner to maintain facts and data. I believe
it is rather simple to narrow/exclude types of vehicles in certain groups,
as from 650 members, gross 65 will KNOW various vehicles out of that.
As an example to more clarity on LV-, A- and MW-vehicles (sorry as chassis-
and cab-typicfication is mixed) we ALL might select/freeze quite a lot. As
I also notice quite some specialists are here (Anorak, Bean, Saviem, John etc)
you might separate a lot. I was wondered that Best Truck Import had 33 MW’s
imported…which includes the 5- and 7-version? CDB only has 2 MW’s known,
but bear in mind that at least 25 MW’s were assembed out of CKD-packages.
No mathematics required, just common sense and vivid exchange of data?
Perhaps Robert than might highlight the 100-milestone on NGC before release?
En-Tour-Age:
An indeed good result, however a restricted group-effort!I meanwhile worked with Continental on the REVS-data-base that EXISTS,
but unfortunately without a owner to maintain facts and data. I believe
it is rather simple to narrow/exclude types of vehicles in certain groups,
as from 650 members, gross 65 will KNOW various vehicles out of that.As an example to more clarity on LV-, A- and MW-vehicles (sorry as chassis-
and cab-typicfication is mixed) we ALL might select/freeze quite a lot. As
I also notice quite some specialists are here (Anorak, Bean, Saviem, John etc)
you might separate a lot. I was wondered that Best Truck Import had 33 MW’s
imported…which includes the 5- and 7-version? CDB only has 2 MW’s known,
but bear in mind that at least 25 MW’s were assembed out of CKD-packages.No mathematics required, just common sense and vivid exchange of data?
Perhaps Robert than might highlight the 100-milestone on NGC before release?
Thanks. Some interesting observations there. I think the 33 figure was extracted from that (incomplete) list of chassis numbers that REVS uses. It shows MWs but doesn’t specify which. Perhaps there were more rigid tippers and tar-sprayers than we thought! As for NGCs, I very much doubt if there were any more than about 70. Robert
We do the math again but need to know how long both 5MW and 7MW were produced (REVS
refers to chassisnumbers) and sold. Knowing the Dutch they will not buy an (old) 5MW at the
moment a better 7MW is available, and less 5MW’s are known, maybe Beiten (NL) and Keulders (B)
had some. Thus 33 counted/known MW’s minus 12 7MW’s (NGC’s) might give an extra 21 unknown?
So close to 100…but not enough breath to blow all candles of that cake!
Agree with Alexander that we all can specify/verify more out of that REVS-list. Inevitably with an
extra survey on indicators, mirror-brackets, tear-plate entry, grab handles and bumper-form?
Would not be that much work to work this out, but pitty REVS had less time nor
interest to proceed on the base (still a luxury when you have some sort of files
with chassis-numbers) and let’s try to exclude ‘errors’ with type-identification and
proceed with WHAT we all have and know by sure. Hence this thread will become
a good base to future stories and assumptions?
I am sure A-J will release some treasures out of archives, so called ‘gems’ soon?
En-Tour-Age:
Would not be that much work to work this out, but pitty REVS had less time nor
interest to proceed on the base (still a luxury when you have some sort of files
with chassis-numbers) and let’s try to exclude ‘errors’ with type-identification and
proceed with WHAT we all have and know by sure. Hence this thread will become
a good base to future stories and assumptions?I am sure A-J will release some treasures out of archives, so called ‘gems’ soon?
A-J has done it before a few times, so I feel confident that he can do it again. Robert
A-J could, like “The engine that could” a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ but it’s
obvious that since some weeks apparently quite a lot of participants
to this thread are ‘gone’ or don’t want to mix up in our harsh contact?
Off the record…there WAS a lot of correct/genuine input, but for
some reasons not trustworthy or later to be doubted again and THAT
was what really made me restrictive to proceed my input.
No harm done as frequently said, but I’m really curious on your book
and WHAT you release then…though without any correction-mode!
You should have a comfortable feeling rather than show criticism here,
you gained a lot of input from people with different backgrounds and I
agree with the reflective description you had being “PADRE FAMILIAS”!
Show you have a network to move on this thread to a higher level now!
ERF-Continental:
A-J could, like “The engine that could” a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ but it’s
obvious that since some weeks apparently quite a lot of participants
to this thread are ‘gone’ or don’t want to mix up in our harsh contact?Off the record…there WAS a lot of correct/genuine input, but for
some reasons not trustworthy or later to be doubted again and THAT
was what really made me restrictive to proceed my input.No harm done as frequently said, but I’m really curious on your book
and WHAT you release then…though without any correction-mode!You should have a comfortable feeling rather than show criticism here,
you gained a lot of input from people with different backgrounds and I
agree with the reflective description you had being “PADRE FAMILIAS”!Show you have a network to move on this thread to a higher level now!
To be fair, the book never required much by way of a correction mode, because I gleaned my material from books, brochures, technical sheets, articles, interviews and personal experience. In as many cases as possible, I show my working (like maths!) by declaring the sources and naming them as I go. On the rare occasions I speculate, I make it abundantly clear that I am doing so. This leaves little room for undetectable errors. The reader can always go to those primary sources and see for themselves that I got it right. Where I have expressed an opinion about whether or not something is right, I make that abundantly clear too. This book was much more carefully crafted than you believe it to be!
I can’t show I have a network, but I’m sure it will continue to show itself, and of course we must spiral ever higher in level, insha’allah! Robert
The other thing that should be said, is that one or two on here are much too ‘hung up’ about the book. This thread is not the book. The book is not being written on this thread. The book is not being written by a committee. I completed it and submitted it to a publisher before I made my first ever postings on this forum. But because it got delayed, I was able to add in some details generated by this thread and add any newly discovered NGCs. Very little has changed from my original, because this thread has been nearly all about details and new discoveries. So let’s stop focussing on the book, and focus on the thread. You have the power to influence changes on thread, and to help refine it as a future data-base (you don’t have that influence over the book!). Here’s to the THREAD, then! Robert
The THREAD is yours!!! Inevitable however is the fact that YOU refer to the book
and the content (even which vehicle IS and IS NOT an European) meaning you are
guarding your written baby a lot, with all right and understanding.
To be honest…the more I read the many pages of this thread, YOU apparently
feel very much obliged to comment, (quote A-J: judge/doubt) the various
data and details to a level where the majority can and will not react nor correct.
Also I await your book with great interest next autumn or spring and we call it a day!
I think you are ok however easy to persuade to react and offend, only child of family?