ERF 'European' (1975)

[carryfast]

newmercman:

Carryfast:

harry:

[zb]
anorak:

harry:
0

This was the coffin I escaped from.

Hi Harry. What was your overall opinion of the lorry? Did ERF stand a chance in Europe, or was the assemble-it-from-bits method just not good enough?

When they were introduced to Switzerland the Swiss O/D’s thought they were a bargain due to the price. At the time they were doing mainly M/E work were constantly breaking down & cost them dear. The main lump -■■■■■■■■■■■ good but it rattled to pieces all the accessories ,compressors,water pumps,alternators,even clutches wore out quickly.They couldn’t stand up to hard wear.

Assuming that the components in question there are all basically similar to what would be fitted to something like a Kenworth for example then how did that combination work ok in the Australian outback and the North American mountains but not Europe and the Middle East.

You’ve been watching Smokey and the Bandit again haven’t you

Apart from the power rating and a bigger cab shell the US trucks are the same as the UK market gaffer’s wagons, i.e. Crude and simple, drive a Volvo and then get into a KW and you go back twenty years in comfort

Don’t forget that I also got good all round education concerning the colonies by watching Skippy too.

Regardless of the arguable merits of the comfort levels of a contemporary KW compared to the ERF European.The relevant bit is that for some reason the basic mechanics of the two different wagons,at least in regards to engine ancilliaries,although obviously being very similar,in regards to mountings and fitment and type,seem to have varied from being more than up to the job in the case of the KW to falling to bits in the case of the ERF. At least in Harry’s experience.

youtube.com/watch?v=lYYncUuHUMs

[zb_anorak]

harry:

[zb]
anorak:

harry:
0

This was the coffin I escaped from.

Hi Harry. What was your overall opinion of the lorry? Did ERF stand a chance in Europe, or was the assemble-it-from-bits method just not good enough?

When they were introduced to Switzerland the Swiss O/D’s thought they were a bargain due to the price. At the time they were doing mainly M/E work were constantly breaking down & cost them dear. The main lump -■■■■■■■■■■■ good but it rattled to pieces all the accessories ,compressors,water pumps,alternators,even clutches wore out quickly.They couldn’t stand up to hard wear. The stupid thing had great big contact breakers instead of fuses… spent days in mid-Winter without the engine or night heater working. Grim.

Did other ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ lorries suffer from the same faults, on that work? I am thinking mainly of the Transcon- that even had contact breakers, if I am not mistaken.

[harry]

Yeah, White Road Commander2 same probs. totally unreliable on the old bumpy roads of Spain and Portugal .The one above had the alternator pack up down in Porto,had to get it back to Swiss for spares which they stripped off new vehicles in the Swiss showroom.

[harry]

This one was also a pain,rush hour 1700hrs in Barcelona ,stuck across a central boulevard & the gear stick came away in my hand! Shoddy workmanship.

[carryfast]

harry:
0
This one was also a pain,rush hour 1700hrs in Barcelona ,stuck across a central boulevard & the gear stick came away in my hand! Shoddy workmanship.

I had a similar thing happen at the roundabout on the northbound exit slip at Luton with a Merc 2534.I blamed it on zb German design standards in that the linkage wasn’t up to the job of shifting that nasty heavy slow synchro box without breaking in half.

[newmercman]

I have had alternator failure on both Volvo and Scania and a gearstick snapped off on a Belgian registered F10 I had, so those faults are not specific to crap lorries

[zb_anorak]

harry:
0

Yeah, White Road Commander2 same probs. totally unreliable on the old bumpy roads of Spain and Portugal .The one above had the alternator pack up down in Porto,had to get it back to Swiss for spares which they stripped off new vehicles in the Swiss showroom.

This is fascinating stuff- all we hear about ■■■■■■■ 14 litre engines is eulogies to their durability, yet now we are finding that rough roads cause them to shed their ancillaries. Newmercman mentioned, some time back, that the American style of driving was flat out, regardless of the condition of the road- I wonder how the Yanks coped? Given that Transcons have been slated for their dodgy electrics, accelerator linkage and other items, I am surprised that I have not read of similar tales to these, regarding bits falling off. Maybe the Transcon’s suspension gave the engine and gearbox a smoother ride than the ERF and White?

[harry]

This was a common fault on this model. The bolt used to sheer on the linkage to the gearbox. It happened to a Swiss OD at traffic lights in Germany.the police turned up and banned him for DD. he never drove a truck again. Stuck to forklifts.

[newmercman]

My own experience, of an admittedly past its best, Transcon are not ones I look back on fondly. Glad I’ve had one as they were iconic, but all that aside, I think they were a heap of junk

I never completed a single trip without having to jack the cab over for some reason, usually because something had fallen off, or was about to fall off, if I was lucky

Poor brakes, temperamental electrics, throttle linkages freezing up, freezing cold cab, stupid bloody door locks that leave you stood in a layby in dealer boots and boxers when you jump out for a ■■■■ in the night, the list goes on…

[saviem]

Evening Gentlemen, gets more and more interesting does this!

I had a feeling, reading ERF-Continental, and Robert 1952, (are you really that young)? that I may have some details that may have been of passing interest to you…so…as sleep threatened to overtake me about 1100hrs in the forenoon…(for today is my day for filling out certain “legal” European documentation…think of it as an extended driver cpc, only twice as aimless, and unproductive).

So, to arrest slumber, and as a task to enjoy, I retrieved some old diaries from the 70s, and began to read.

December 1978, there are two diary entries…the first from an old colleague in Antwerp, asking me to ring a Dutch friend of his, who has some English lorries for sale, and needs a bit of advice where to sell them.

The second entry…and I will type exactly as it is written…(perhaps in haste)!
Called, 01804 22022,( Autobestebreurtje BV. Rijksstraatweg 29, Postbus 148, Rijsoord, Telex 20118)

.
For sale,
3x ERF B Serie, Cu 290, RTO9513, 3.5 wb double sleeper. Brand new lhd.
Reg 77, ex Demo, ERF B Serie, Cu 290, RTO9513, 3.3m wb 10k kms, painted orange Reg ex Demo, 77, Cu 250, RTO9509, 3.3m wb,single sleeper B serie, painted yellow, 15k kms
1xERF B Serie, Cu 250, RTO9513 3.3M wb, non sleeper painted yellow, lhd. New
1xB Serie ERF Cu290, RTO9513, 3.3m wb single sleeper. New.
1xERF NGC420, Reg `77, Cu335, RTO9509, 3.03M WB, Double sleeper, paint Olive Green, (90%) Reg 76, 200000kms, all good.

Total parts inventory…Eaton axles, gearboxes, diffs, cab parts also as a “job” lot.

Who ever I spoke to, (and there are three “first” names, on the page), I passed on the advertising telephone. numbers for Commercial Motor, Motor Transport, and Truck, plus Richard Read, and Beeches.

Wonder what happened to these lorries, obviously the outfit was baling out of ERF…am I right in remembering them as DAF breakers, and used men, or am I confusing them with someone else?

Worth keeping old records, amazing what turns up…

Cheerio for now.

[erf-continental]

Saviem:
Evening Gentlemen, gets more and more interesting does this!

I had a feeling, reading ERF-Continental, and Robert 1952, (are you really that young)? that I may have some details that may have been of passing interest to you…so…as sleep threatened to overtake me about 1100hrs in the forenoon…(for today is my day for filling out certain “legal” European documentation…think of it as an extended driver cpc, only twice as aimless, and unproductive).

So, to arrest slumber, and as a task to enjoy, I retrieved some old diaries from the 70s, and began to read.

December 1978, there are two diary entries…the first from an old colleague in Antwerp, asking me to ring a Dutch friend of his, who has some English lorries for sale, and needs a bit of advice where to sell them.

The second entry…and I will type exactly as it is written…(perhaps in haste)!
Called, 01804 22022,( Autobestebreurtje BV. Rijksstraatweg 29, Postbus 148, Rijsoord, Telex 20118)

Later the company name BEST(ebreurtje)TRUCK IMPORT B.V. was chosen and moved to Oud-Beijerland (close to Rotterdam)

.
For sale,
3x ERF B Serie, Cu 290, RTO9513, 3.5 wb double sleeper. Brand new lhd.
Reg 77, ex Demo, ERF B Serie, Cu 290, RTO9513, 3.3m wb 10k kms, painted orange Reg ex Demo, 77, Cu 250, RTO9509, 3.3m wb,single sleeper B serie, painted yellow, 15k kms
1xERF B Serie, Cu 250, RTO9513 3.3M wb, non sleeper painted yellow, lhd. New
1xB Serie ERF Cu290, RTO9513, 3.3m wb single sleeper. New.
1xERF NGC420, Reg `77, Cu335, RTO9509, 3.03M WB, Double sleeper, paint Olive Green, (90%) Reg 76, 200000kms, all good.
Probably this one belonged (will verify with Robert1952) to B. Sjouw (earlier seen with a “Van Uden”-TIR-trailer) who sold this truck
to buy the less thirstier B-series after roughly 1 year of operation. The register gets more and more reliable and that thanks to you
and other participants. Till now the figure is around 65 NGC’s examined, researched and confirmed more or less. Sometimes with
terrific pictures! Good job done!

I guess Robert1952 will read this tomorrow as he was not on-line here today, but I changed emails with him meanwhile. Have a good night!

Total parts inventory…Eaton axles, gearboxes, diffs, cab parts also as a “job” lot.

Who ever I spoke to, (and there are three “first” names, on the page), I passed on the advertising telephone. numbers for Commercial Motor, Motor Transport, and Truck, plus Richard Read, and Beeches.

Wonder what happened to these lorries, obviously the outfit was baling out of ERF…am I right in remembering them as DAF breakers, and used men, or am I confusing them with someone else?

Worth keeping old records, amazing what turns up…

Cheerio for now.

[erf-continental]

@Saviem, sorry I wrote between the quoted sentences and skipped something also.

Bestebreurtje was (and now still is) a DAF-dealer (I inputted a picture of their Autocar-
wrecker earlier here) and nowadays with more locations all in Rotterdam-region. Rijsoord
and Oud-Beijerland are small villages, probably long established and developped blacksmiths
with after WW2 a clever and creative continuation with tinkering on all kinds of Army-surplus.
Because of that also a lot experience with ■■■■■■■ and US/UK-vehicles…pleasant people.

A-J

[carryfast]

newmercman:
My own experience, of an admittedly past its best, Transcon are not ones I look back on fondly. Glad I’ve had one as they were iconic, but all that aside, I think they were a heap of junk

I never completed a single trip without having to jack the cab over for some reason, usually because something had fallen off, or was about to fall off, if I was lucky .

The obvious question is was any of that connected specifically,to ancilliaries falling to bits being in some way related to the ■■■■■■■ engine installation in the Transcon,as was being inferred concerning the similar comments relating to the ERF ?.

If it was,which seems difficult to understand,wouldn’t that have pointed to lack of testing at the pre market stage .You’d probably remember just how punishing the pave tests were at Chobham for example and I’m guessing that both the ERF and the Transcon were both subjected to such testing to the point where anything which could be broken,at least by most types of foreseeable rough surface running,would break ?.

[carryfast]

Saviem:
Evening Gentlemen, gets more and more interesting does this!

I had a feeling, reading ERF-Continental, and Robert 1952, (are you really that young)? that I may have some details that may have been of passing interest to you…so…as sleep threatened to overtake me about 1100hrs in the forenoon…(for today is my day for filling out certain “legal” European documentation…think of it as an extended driver cpc, only twice as aimless, and unproductive).

So, to arrest slumber, and as a task to enjoy, I retrieved some old diaries from the 70s, and began to read.

December 1978, there are two diary entries.

.
For sale,
3x ERF B Serie, Cu 290, RTO9513, 3.5 wb double sleeper. Brand new lhd.
Reg 77, ex Demo, ERF B Serie, Cu 290, RTO9513, 3.3m wb 10k kms, painted orange Reg ex Demo, 77, Cu 250, RTO9509, 3.3m wb,single sleeper B serie, painted yellow, 15k kms
1xERF B Serie, Cu 250, RTO9513 3.3M wb, non sleeper painted yellow, lhd. New
1xB Serie ERF Cu290, RTO9513, 3.3m wb single sleeper. New.
1xERF NGC420, Reg `77, Cu335, RTO9509, 3.03M WB, Double sleeper, paint Olive Green, (90%) Reg 76, 200000kms, all good.

Total parts inventory…Eaton axles, gearboxes, diffs, cab parts also as a “job” lot.

Who ever I spoke to, (and there are three “first” names, on the page), I passed on the advertising telephone. numbers for Commercial Motor, Motor Transport, and Truck, plus Richard Read, and Beeches.

Wonder what happened to these lorries, obviously the outfit was baling out of ERF…

It seems that was more or less the point in time where any connections which Euro operators might have previously had with British/American engineering were being severed.Which provides yet more evidence supporting my view,as opposed to Anorak’s and ERF’s management,concerning the inevitable outcome of the Brits investing resources in trying to break into the Euro market in a big way just as the Euros were actually baling out of such products in an even bigger way.

Although I’m guessing that the '77 reg 420 would have been in more demand if the ad had said Big Cam 320 with Fuller 13 speed.

[newmercman]

My experience of ERFs is limited, I owned a C series daycab with L10-250 and never drove it, except around the yard, it was a bit plasticky inside and very brown, but it was a solid little lorry, which is more than can be said about the Cheshire assembled Big Henry.

Chassis wise ERF were highly regarded, especially when it came to braking and handling, which is always a good sign of a well designed and built vehicle.

And, don’t forget, the only negative press the NGC has received has been from Harry and we know nothing of the maintenance programme of that specific lorry, even so it’s only one or two breakdowns and the lorry that doesn’t break down is yet to be invented!!

Yes, the big can ■■■■■■■ may well have been a bad choice, but at the time it was well proven in the colonies, so why not use it?

I’m a little surprised that you don’t like the European ERF Geoffrey, in previous threads you have said a big square K100esque cab on a big banger ■■■■■■■ was your dream 1970s product, ok, it doesn’t have enough gears for your fuddled brain to accept, but the rest of it sounds like you had a part in its design

[carryfast]

newmercman:
My experience of ERFs is limited, I owned a C series daycab with L10-250 and never drove it, except around the yard, it was a bit plasticky inside and very brown, but it was a solid little lorry, which is more than can be said about the Cheshire assembled Big Henry.

Chassis wise ERF were highly regarded, especially when it came to braking and handling, which is always a good sign of a well designed and built vehicle.

And, don’t forget, the only negative press the NGC has received has been from Harry and we know nothing of the maintenance programme of that specific lorry, even so it’s only one or two breakdowns and the lorry that doesn’t break down is yet to be invented!!

Yes, the big can ■■■■■■■ may well have been a bad choice, but at the time it was well proven in the colonies, so why not use it?

I’m a little surprised that you don’t like the European ERF Geoffrey, in previous threads you have said a big square K100esque cab on a big banger ■■■■■■■ was your dream 1970s product, ok, it doesn’t have enough gears for your fuddled brain to accept, but the rest of it sounds like you had a part in its design

You’ve read it wrong if you think I don’t rate the 420 as a good Brit wagon.The bit that I think was the deal breaker was ERF’s management not having someone out there in the States on the ground supervising the supply of Big Cam 320 motors and 13 speed fullers to put in it instead of the by then obsolete small cam and 9 speed.Then I’d have made sure not to try to sell the result to the Euros who by then obviously couldn’t get their heads around decent engineering and sold the thing here on a take it at 32 t gross or go without basis and in Oz and NZ.Bearing in mind that in my world Shore and Powell were in a co alition running the government not Heath,Wilson and then Callaghan.Not bad for a 16 year old school leaver.

[newmercman]

The more I read about them, the more I like them, not a fan of the grille on the later ones, I like the more rounded look of the 5mw much better.

[zb_anorak]

newmercman:
The more I read about them, the more I like them, not a fan of the grille on the later ones, I like the more rounded look of the 5mw much better.

Yes. The 5MW looked like a proper European lorry. If the money that was wasted making tools for that silly fake LB110 front panel had been spent on a bit of fluff inside the cab, all would have been well.

[zb_anorak]

Carryfast:
You’ve read it wrong if you think I don’t rate the 420 as a good Brit wagon.The bit that I think was the deal breaker was ERF’s management not having someone out there in the States on the ground supervising the supply of Big Cam 320 motors and 13 speed fullers to put in it instead of the by then obsolete small cam and 9 speed…Blah

The Big Cam E290 ■■■■■■■ was introduced in 1977, after the NGC420 had ceased production. The E320 came out in 1981. ERF would have needed the help of HG Wells to buy those engines in 1973. Idiot.

[newmercman]

[zb]
anorak:

Carryfast:
You’ve read it wrong if you think I don’t rate the 420 as a good Brit wagon.The bit that I think was the deal breaker was ERF’s management not having someone out there in the States on the ground supervising the supply of Big Cam 320 motors and 13 speed fullers to put in it instead of the by then obsolete small cam and 9 speed…Blah

The Big Cam E290 ■■■■■■■ was introduced in 1977, after the NGC420 had ceased production. The E320 came out in 1981. ERF would have needed the help of HG Wells to buy those engines in 1973. Idiot.