ERF 'European' (1975)

@Eric/Tiptop

You were hands-on! Robert stated earlier that this truck was exhibitioned at Brussels show and via Best Truck
in Holland went to Thibaut (probably via CDB/Denonville) in Strée (rue de la station, near mills) and they also
drove a tractor, which I experienced through the brief telephone-conversation with Mrs. Thibaut in my best
French. A picture of that tractor/trailer is given here some pages earlier, in front of the office at the Chaussee
de Haecht (coin rue de foyer schaerbeekois) in Brussels. So we might assume/confirme that’s the tractor!

Perhaps I will call some day as a certain M. Thibaut still lives at rue de la station (now in Thuin) and might also
confirm or (even better) has some pictures or details…the only thing I know was that they were very positive
and happy users of the both ERF’s!

“Gaan we buzze geven?” :slight_smile:

@Eric/Tiptop:

Delcon and Delsaert operated the 5MW version and with regard to NGC420/380, I was reminded by “saviem”
that Marcel Coulier from Hamme (odd as he was a dedicated customer at Van Hool’s for trailers and also via
Catrabel for FIAT-trucks) had a NGC/European, further Demeulemeester in Pittem, Thibaut (tractor and truck)
and last but not least (still existing) Eyckmans from Betekom.

Till now I did not recieve a reaction from “bald” through this thread but I guess when he comes back we can
exchange a lot on the other European to finalise that chapter as far as we get.

A-J

ERF-Continental:
@Robert: I will forward my (humble) listing by separate mail, not to confuse other and merely also because
I’ll respect your endeavours and hard work to obtain all this information much earlier…something went so
wrong with my previous input here, came not through as the highlight was nuts and bolts and 9-13-boxes.

My rough collection: 38NGC’s in NL, B, F and UK:

10 4x2 tractors in NL
10 4x2 tractors in B
01 4x2 truck in B
03 4x2 tractors in F
01 6x4 tractor in F
02 4x2 truck in F
10 4x2 tractors in UK
01 6x4 tractor in UK (double with 1 of Eykmans in B)

Ah! Now I understand, ERF-C. Well, it’s a bit more complicated than your breakdown because, as I’ve said before, many of these vehicles had several lives and to complicate this further some had their lives in different countries with new registration plates. I’ve even got some that were re-registered within the same original country of purchase. This, of course, is why I want to present the information in properly tabled form and not just a list. Once you see my register, you’ll have a wealth of information to play with. Between you all, you can then be detectives like I was (and Jerry Cooke and Wobbe Reitsma were) and see if between us all we can unearth pictures and information to fill the gaps. For example I have some registration numbers but no pictures and little info for some. Others I have pictures for but no information (like the white French picture I posted). I notice you’ve only got one Belgian 4x2 by the way: Van Steenbergen had six and there was that blue one pictured earlier in the thread from Pettem, and what about Thibaut? Delcon had MGC 380s not NGC 420s. Be patient, I will share my toys! I will not hoard, lest I fall under a Middle-East spec Mercedes 6x4 1924 on sand tyres while crossing the road in Cairo on my way to school, and all is lost for ever!! Robert :laughing:

ERF-Continental:
@Eric/Tiptop:

Delcon and Delsaert operated the 5MW version and with regard to NGC420/380, I was reminded by “saviem”
that Marcel Coulier from Hamme (odd as he was a dedicated customer at Van Hool’s for trailers and also via
Catrabel for FIAT-trucks) had a NGC/European, further Demeulemeester in Pittem, Thibaut (tractor and truck)
and last but not least (still existing) Eyckmans from Betekom.

Till now I did not recieve a reaction from “bald” through this thread but I guess when he comes back we can
exchange a lot on the other European to finalise that chapter as far as we get.

A-J

Hey ERF, it was not Coulier with the Fiat’s which went into Samat. (maybe he had one too■■?)
But Marcel Coulier was from Merksem too were they both started, He drove nearly all red Scania’s but had some exotics.
Even a heavy 6X4 Autocar for waste a real beast. And the same model and colour has driven long whit waste too but has forgotten there name (if that company still exists).

Cheers Eric,

This cutting has been taken from the Commercial Motor , January 10 th., 1969.
I hope it is of useful help to this interesting thread.

Cheers , cattle wagon man.

@Eric/Tiptop:

Coulier of Hamme, with tankers, the red livery…and with a lot of Fiat with the oval grill, the 690T etc

Perhaps you mean Van Der Weghe, close to where now Cardoen is located, with heavy haulage? They even
had a GMC Astro and several red scania’s

@cattle wagon man:

to me a real nice truck, sturdy and showing quality…picture was taken in Schaaerbeek, northern part
of Brussels, and CDB was a professional assembler…with restricted assembly area (John) spoke about,
it might utilise for ERF to transfer capacity to where it was needed, the continent,despite EC-regulations.

[quote=“cattle wagon man”

@Robert:

With regard to NL, B and F, I can’t hardly believe there were exports between these countries, but merely
internals, just like Kooij, De Regt and Willemstein…or were importers then sleeping? We Dutch take every
bit out of a product before we sell/scrap it :slight_smile:

@3300John:

for every Belgian cab they’ve should refund a crate of Trappist-beer to UK!

Bottoms up!

ERF-Continental:
@Eric/Tiptop:

Coulier of Hamme, with tankers, the red livery…and with a lot of Fiat with the oval grill, the 690T etc

Perhaps you mean Van Der Weghe, close to where now Cardoen is located, with heavy haulage? They even
had a GMC Astro and several red scania’s

Hey ERF, no no Marcel is of Merksem,think have a still a pic of it■■? But this one isn’t that big Coulier with the Fiat’s surely Their father started as a road surfacer only about 10/15 km from my door. And the sons went to Antwerp were all the tanker transport was. Marcel hadn’t mot so mutch trucks 10/20 max, but his brother with the tankers and cementliners had well about 80 or more.
And it is not Van De Wege I mean too. It was a small company from between Brussels and Louvain but not sure??

cheers Eric,

ERF-Continental:
@3300John:

for every Belgian cab they’ve should refund a crate of Trappist-beer to UK!

Bottoms up!

The ‘Belgian Cab’ was only really the same as the domestic UK ERF 5MW, except that it was left-hand drive and, in the ‘European’ version, better appointed inside. This has reminded me that I was originally going to include the 5MW-cabbed ‘Europeans’ in my book, but decided to stick to the 7MW (NGC 420) only. Here, below is a piece I wrote about the Belgian-cabbed European before axing it from the book:

The ERF 5MW ‘European’ 38-tonne tractive unit was displayed at the 1971 Brussels motor show. In practice they became 42-tonners in Holland and Belgium. The show model had the steel Motor Panels cab coded 5MW by ERF, which was already being used on right-hand-drive export tractive units. The 5MW cab had a rather pleasing curved front end with split windscreen but it didn’t tilt, which eventually led to the development of the 7MW two years later. The ‘European’s’ chassis was waisted and derived from the A-series, rather than from the LV-series and had a longer 3.09m wheelbase. The vehicle was designed to the standard of continental heavy goods vehicles with a single bunk, left-hand-drive, ZF power-steering (as standard), metric tacho, cab suspension, suspended Bostrom seats and a powerful ■■■■■■■ NTC 335 engine coupled to a 9-speed Fuller. It differed enormously from its right-hand-drive counterpart, being a much more sophisticated truck and it continued to be offered alongside the 7MW ‘European’. Interestingly, several features of both models evolved side by side until 1976 when production of both ceased.
Many 5MW ‘Europeans’ were exported in CKD (completely knocked-down kit) form to CDB, the ■■■■■■■ distributor in Brussels and Antwerp, who assembled them for local operators such as Transports Delcon of Leuven in Belgium who ran eight 335-powered units on regular round trips to Italy, Scandinavia and East Germany. These were described as A-series ERFs with 5MW cabs. Bearing in mind that Britain had yet to join the European Economic Community, it was necessary to avoid the high import duties imposed on complete vehicles, hence the CKD form. Once Britain had joined the EEC in 1975 vehicles were built whole in ERF’s works at Sandbach. In the first two years, 25 were assembled in the CDB workshops.
Drivers have described 5MW ‘Europeans’ as comfortable and lovely to drive. They had more sophisticated cabs than their domestic counterparts, with twin bunks and better insulation. Following a test drive, the Belgian editor-in-chief of L’Avenir du Transport Routier magazine praised its suspension and reported it to have first-class braking and handling characteristics. Wobbe Reitsma reports that these wagons were sometimes caught doing 80mph on the Belgian motorways. ERF’s in-house magazine, Chassis (issue no.18 summer 1971) describes those exported to European with ■■■■■■■ NTC 335s and 9-speed Fullers as 64CU335: the ‘4’ denoted 4-wheeler.

A LHD 38-tonne version of the ‘European’ for British operators was announced at the 1972 Earls Court motor show, designated MGG 380. In its show preview, Commercial Motor reported it as having a Gardner 8LXB 240 bhp engine (though the ERF brochure states that 250 bhp was available) and heavy duty eight-speed David Brown constant-mesh ‘box. The front axle was rated at 6.5 and the Kirkstall hub-reduction rear axle was a 13.2 tonne heavy duty D85 with a diff-lock. The chassis differed from the export version in that it was a lengthened straight-framed A-series frame. And of course it had standard left-hand-drive and ZF power steering. So British international operators were offered a version of the ‘European’ with a choice of Gardner 8LXB 250 engine with a David Brown 8-speed ‘box, Rolls Royce 220 engine with a Fuller 10-speed ‘box, or ■■■■■■■ NTC 335 engine with a Fuller 9-speed ‘box. British drivers often knew these as ‘Belgian sleepers’.
Richard Read ran a most inspiring LHD 5MW with the waisted heavy-duty chassis, a Gardner 240 and roof-mounted air-con on Middle-East work in Vijore colours (HDF 228N); it was driven by Graham Averis from new and was later converted to RHD and eventually received a B-series cab. Cadwallader operated a LHD 240 Gardner-powered tractive unit (BNT 939L). This was later converted to RHD following a mishap in France. Partrick of Northants ran a Euro-spec 5MW (RRP 68R) on European work (mostly Portugal), as did Calor (NTC 335 engine). Beresford of Stoke-on-Trent ran both models — the 5MW (both RHD and LHD) and the 7MW, alongside each other. One of Beresford’s LHD 5MWs (PVT 646R) had a Rolls Royce 220 and a 10-speed Fuller ‘box: it is believed that Beresford ran 15 like this but PVT was the only left-■■■■■■. S Jones of Aldridge ran one with the ■■■■■■■ 335 and 9-speed Fuller combination and the heavy-duty waisted chassis (SRF 304L). This vehicle became no.104 in the Trans Arabia fleet in Jeddah. It is a testament to the model that some thrived in the Middle East. Trans Arabia operated four 5MW ‘Europeans’ in Saudi with Fuller 9-speed ‘boxes coupled to NTC 335s.
Hye Gebroederen NV (registration AZC 289) and Van Drieche of Gent both operated 6x4 M-series LHD 85-tonners on heavy haulage work in the early ‘seventies. These were not thought to be called ‘Europeans’. The Van Drieche tractor pulled a seven-axle low-loader trailer with a 250-tonne Manitowoc crane.
The 5MW was surely one of the most pleasing ERFs in appearance. It was a nice blend of ancient and modern, with its gracefully curved front panels, twin headlamps and split windscreen. Even more pleasing in my view, were those later examples with the upright rectangular dummy radiator grille. Its distinctive sun visor really marked it out as a lorry bound for foreign parts. Although they lacked the ride-height and stature of the later 7MWs, those that ran on 12.00 x 20 tyres tended to have a less down-at-heel appearance. Many 5MWs had the traditional British-style moulded headboard bearing the operator’s name. A fine example of this was SRF 304L which bore the name ‘S Jones’ above the cab until it was retired to Jeddah and the name was altered to ‘Trans Arabia’. ERF 5MWs were particularly magnificent in the superb livery of Beresford from Stoke-on-Trent who ran them in both LHD and RHD forms; likewise Richard Read of Longhope. Robert :smiley:

@Robert: Impressive…you’re a genuine ERF-European!!!

By the way…as CDB did assemble 25 5MW’s, another 10-12 are to be catched?
For Delcon of Wilsele 8 4x2 for mainly transitliner, 4 6x4 for Hydrocar (tar-spray)
and X 6x4 Delsaert-tippers) besides Van Driesche Gent and Gebroederen■■? Very
unknown name…?

You mention CDB as Brussels and Antwerp distributor…? I regard CDB as importer
and only know that Universel (Gent/Kortrijk) and DeBock (Antwerp) were dealers,
as Van Steenbergen was later for NGC.

ERF-Continental:
@Robert: Impressive…you’re a genuine ERF-European!!!

By the way…as CDB did assemble 25 5MW’s, another 10-12 are to be catched?
For Delcon of Wilsele 8 4x2 for mainly transitliner, 4 6x4 for Hydrocar (tar-spray)
and X 6x4 Delsaert-tippers) besides Van Driesche Gent and Gebroederen■■? Very
unknown name…?

You mention CDB as Brussels and Antwerp distributor…? I regard CDB as importer
and only know that Universel (Gent/Kortrijk) and DeBock (Antwerp) were dealers,
as Van Steenbergen was later for NGC.

Thanks for that! You ask if the 25 5MWs are to be included. My register is strictly NGC 420, I’m afraid. Perhaps you can start a register of 5MW Europeans - I can give you a good list to get you going. As for CDB, yes they were distributors as well as importers: I’ll look out the proof for you! Robert :slight_smile:

@Robert:

No, I want to keep things crisp and clear…my question was if the mentioned 5MW were included in
your stating 25 CDB did assemble. To be honest, I rather would like to have others piggy-back to a
definite/genuine overview and not to hide for data not to be released…my archive might be
not a very strong one, but has certain content which I frequently shared and was about to input for
‘my’ book “The life of Arthur Denonville and his succesful continuation” an in-house-publication from
1922-2002…dealing with Ford, Indiana, Federal, White, Autocar, Scania-Vabis, ERF, Foden and
finally Scania. Gross volume 100pages including Ets. Denonville, Sobelma, ■■■■■■■ Distributor Belgium
and other entities.

What would have been the European feeling of Arthur Denonville after he tried with his Denonville Diesel 1937-1940?

To remain EUROPEAN:

Two examples of early ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■

3300John:

ERF-Continental:
@John:

To be crisp…:

  1. so Albert Dale bought it (as subby for Beresford) new as 4x2-tractor

  2. later (when sold) converted in 6x4 for wreckage-purposes,

  3. bought by John Simmons in 6x4-version for heavy haulage (see picture JS-A)

  4. converted back in 4x2 tractor stil in ‘service’ with John Simmons? (see picture JS-B)

Important for the register as well as a fact operators were (more) active in maintaining
and converting towards the ideal vehicle for their regular orderbook/customers.

Hiya…NO i think geh has always been a 4x2 . the photo’s may just show a dolly that
makes geh look like a 6x2, i don’t think there are any better photos to show geh as a 6x2.
we need someone from John Simmonds to help us out.
John

This picture gives a better view of the tag dolly built for GEH. Also the difference between the 12.00x20 tyres on GEH and the 10.00x20 on the dolly.
Regards, Colin.

[quote="colinwallace1

3300John:

colinwallace1:

3300John:

ERF-Continental:
@John:

To be crisp…:

  1. so Albert Dale bought it (as subby for Beresford) new as 4x2-tractor

  2. later (when sold) converted in 6x4 for wreckage-purposes,

  3. bought by John Simmons in 6x4-version for heavy haulage (see picture JS-A)

  4. converted back in 4x2 tractor stil in ‘service’ with John Simmons? (see picture JS-B)

Important for the register as well as a fact operators were (more) active in maintaining
and converting towards the ideal vehicle for their regular orderbook/customers.

Hiya…NO i think geh has always been a 4x2 . the photo’s may just show a dolly that
makes geh look like a 6x2, i don’t think there are any better photos to show geh as a 6x2.
we need someone from John Simmonds to help us out.
John

This picture gives a better view of the tag dolly built for GEH. Also the difference between the 12.00x20 tyres on GEH and the 10.00x20 on the dolly.
Regards, Colin.

Hiya… thanks for that photo Colin…Robert talking of the first steel cabs to be built i think 32 tons had just become legal in the uk.
another question to be asked is John Simmond,s still alive?? i’ve seen a Diamont T in his livery dose that belong to him.
thanks John

Hi John, J Simmons is still alive. He owned the Diamond T for many years but I’m not sure if he still has it. There is a picture of it on one of the pages of this thread next to GEH.
Regards, Colin.