ERF-Continental:
[quote
I was lucky to discover one of these (limited to 100) paintings via Michael Small at Essen Techno Classica,
knowing that I am an early collector/enthousiast of ERF…don’t know what I paid then, but I still can
keep the good memories on this excellent marque vivid! The story behind this/my painting is that one of
the ERF-directors intended to abandon his (bad) experiences within the company…and sold it.
A-J
There were dozens of little refinements that marked out the 7MW cab on the NGC 420 from the fixed 5MW cab on the MGC 380. One of the more endearing features was a chassis-mounted tyre inflator. I’ve scanned the diagram in my French Driver’s Manual below. Robert
Sorry for bad quality…I’ve found this possible ERF NGC Mk2■■?
Well, I guess CDB might have influenced ERF with the Scania-front and that ERF expected same
results as well as general acceptance, with only a ‘minor’ adjustment due to technical need for
more engine compartment.
Evening all,
well my good lady wife of nearly 50 years saw me, at the controls of a faithful Deere,
(to use her words), " entering the farmyard like John Wayne leading the 5th Cavalry" at lunch time. So being a dutiful wife she set about fabricating a veritable mountain of smoked Salmon on Poppy Seeded wholegrain bread sandwiches, and boiled the kettle for the Earl Grey, to wash it down…40 minutes later she set out to find me…(fearing the worst, for I am of advancing years)!
She found me, hunched over a chest, in what now passes for the farm office, (for though I am now occupying the old cow shed, well the files…even the important EEC ones, are still in various storage recepticals) Pehaps it would be sensible to gloss over the ensuing conversation…once she had discovered that I was searching for my 1975 diary, and various bits of associated paperwork, and not something of major importance to the farm!!!
So dear friends, I will recount some background, and the details that I have found…no I never throw anything away!
I have spoken of my friendship, (of many years), with the late Pat Kennett. Not so how he met Andrew Frankl, (a man carrying a tailors maniquin on his shoulder), and the net result of that meeting…perhaps Europes most influential journal of the decade, Truck magazine.
Pat`s experience of lorries was truly world wide, and he was a true “lorry man”. Not a journalist, an engineering based critic of all things manufactured, and fierce opponent of the b… s… marketing man! And unlike so many of Europes lorry journalists, Pat could drive them…like a tipper man on bonus,…like we that have had to “make the boat” could do, and as the man who was paying for the fuel, can only do!!!
So the idea is developed…get a number of Europes manufacturers to submit their products to a comparative test procedure. The venue, lets use Belgium, really hard terrain, really hard roads, a real “transport” country…and since we British had cocked up their lorry manufacturing business…well they were neutral ground!!
So 1975 saw Mercedes, DAF, ERF, Scania, Volvo and Saviem, let Pat loose in, a 1932S (VW…8S) a 2800DKS, (5612FH), an NGC 420.260 (KDM460N), Scania 140 (4024HF), F89, ( HOF369), and one of our “old”, soon to be replaced by the PS30, Saviem SM340 V8s ( I never wrote down the registration of this demo, when I faithfully recorded everyone elses…well Im not that bright am I! but it would end in 92)!!Was she 762■■? I did a few press tests with this old girl…bit lethargic, but those MAN V8s could always get you there!!
So of course as the resident English speaker I was drafted in to do the interpreters role, and what a hoot that was…particularly as “our man” kept telling Pat that he did not know how to use a true synchro gearbox,she was fitted with the GV60 splitter, 10 speed column change. I kept laughing so much that I could not stay upright on the bunk!!!
But this thread is about the European…what a stonking hooligan of a lorry, so much power, such a crude final finish, such a DRIVERS motor. Shot up that big hill at Spa, and the bendy bit at Houffalize the ERF blew holes in the Scania 140. But it should with a 335 ■■■■■■■■ a straight RT9509 and twin plate, with a clutch stop. She coupled to the designated Trailor Savoyard, (perhaps one of transports best ever general purpose trailers, that bogie would follow you like a dream), with the 5th wheel pushed right back, yet Pat told me that the ride/handling was ok. I seem to remember that the Volvo F89 would not couple , and Pat had to seek an alternative
trailer for her test.
But much as we all may like the look of the Motor Panels European…she was a codge!!! The B series was designed initially without a sleeper option! The steel frame extending up the rear of the cab, precluding such a configuration. So the Motor Panels cab was used, and gave ERF perhaps one of her best looking lorries ever, but she was only ever a “stop gap”, for Europe the B series was the model.
One point that I remember clearly from this first Eurotest, was the investigation into product support…Scania, in Europe at that time was in advance of everyone, ERF …frankly…a joke, the rest of us, well as “mainland suppliers” we had our strengths and weaknesses. The best lorry at the end of the test procedure, (14 days overall) the F89 Volvo, the cab may have been old, but what a drivers lorry…and cheap to run as well!!
Saviems, (and very discreetly), Pat`s favourite, back in 75,( and tip for the future), the wonderfully quality assembled OM403 V10 powered Mercedes Benz 1932S. The nearest thing to a luxury car with a fifth wheel!
ERF, anorak has echoed my point that to make success in a market one has to have viable dealers, where sales/service revenue equal real profit and viability. ERF simply could not, for the reasons I outlined on 21.01. 14 achieve the production volumes to achieve this end.
3300 john confirms ERFs dilemma, they could not viably expand their facility to produce the volumes that the marketing needed. Middlewich was an expensive option, as so often so little, so late.
ERF Continental, your point about attaching dealerships to operators was one of the fundamental reasons for ERFs demise in the UK. You have your new ERF, and you take it into the local dealer…but the workshop is full of “his” vehicles…next thing he is after “your” traffic! The “big” UK dealers, Richard Read, S Jones, Beeches, haulage based companies, did as much to loose custom as create it! At first it is an attractive option they will buy your product, parts, vehicles for sub contractors etc, but later it turns sour, as they are limited in attracting customers to their premises and business. A pattern clearly shown across many marques of vehicle across all of Europe.
As I have previously stated Bryan Hunt as Managing Director laid the foundation stones to turn ERF and its products towards Europe. The real imputus came with John Bryant`s appointment, and the professional effort to establish networks in France and Spain, but the fundamental problem of under capatalisation, and limited production capacity remained.
The complimentary copies of Pat`s early Truck magazine mailed to me, soon disappeared into the wood panelled offices at Suresnes, never to return to my humble desk, so I have no idea how he treated the ERF NGC 420.260, (for that is what I have written in my diary as a model, as is the heavily underlined words…HOT ROD!..I suppose that says it all!!
Im away to my tea, for I fear another reprimand, and exortation to…grow up!!!..
Never had a drive in the ERF, never missed it until now!!
Bollinger heals all…Im away to my tea…I hope
Cheerio for now.
ERF-Continental:
Sorry for bad quality…I’ve found this possible ERF NGC Mk2■■?Well, I guess CDB might have influenced ERF with the Scania-front and that ERF expected same
results as well as general acceptance, with only a ‘minor’ adjustment due to technical need for
more engine compartment.
The cab looks lower-mounted than on the NGC420. The styling looks more mid-sixties than 1973. I doubt that ERF would be considering a Mk2 NGC420, given that the B series was launched only one year afer the NGC. Maybe this is a styling mock-up for the original NGC, or something completely different?
Saviem:
…ERF, anorak has echoed my point that to make success in a market one has to have viable dealers, where sales/service revenue equal real profit and viability. ERF simply could not, for the reasons I outlined on 21.01. 14 achieve the production volumes to achieve this… Cheerio for now.
Was ERF’s production capacity “maxed out” in the mid seventies? The company’s initiative with the MW-cabbed Europeans indicates that they were intending to sell more vehicles in Europe, so they must have had an idea how they were going to build them. Maybe they just did not think big enough- the extra dealers necessary in Germany and Southern Europe, plus the extra production capacity to supply them, might well have been too big an investment to fund. However, the sales would not have taken off overnight, even with those extra dealers. I doubt that production capacity was the (initial) reason for holding back on the extra European dealer coverage. If the company had been prepared to take things one step at a time- put the marketing in place, then add the extra production capacity as the sales increased, they would have had a viable strategy for carving out a sustainable niche in Europe. It might have required a period of a decade or so before it turned a profit, and I believe that it was this reluctance to invest in expansion that held ERF back. Of course, they were embarking on a journey that their competitors had started a decade or so before, so maybe the mountain had become too steep and too high.
That Truck magazine article reminded me how Mr. Kennett seemed to be on the happy pills every time he sat in front of his typewriter. Earnings factors doubling over a period of 17 years? I doubt it. The peak efficiency of engines improved from about 40% to 43% in that period (if you conveniently ignore Gardner!). The main technical influence on speed and fuel consumption came from aerodynamics- the NGC420/Trailor combination resembled a brick towing a brick, while the later E12 had a full air kit on it. Other influences are outside the field of vehicle engineering- the article mentions the improvements to roads, and economy-oriented driver training (although the characteristics of engines changed, during that period, to favour lower, more efficient engine speeds, so the engineers can take some credit for that).
I suspect that those early Eurotest entrants instructed the test drivers to drive for speed, rather than economy, which brings me to the subject of cheating- the article mentions that the NGC was 2% faster than the LB140, despite having a nominal 25bhp less (approx. 325 vs. 350 DIN). Its constant-mesh gearbox would not give it an advantage that great. The ERF’s ■■■■■■■ must have been making a lot more than 335bhp gross, to blow the 140 into the weeds. ERF’s aim seemed to be to promote their vehicle as a road-burner, to add to its driver appeal. The productivity improvement of the E12 against the NGC420 must be viewed in the light of these considerations. Given similar roads, production-specification engines and the same attitude in the driver, the difference between the two vehicles would be much less than Truck magazine stated.
ERF-Continental:
Sorry for bad quality…I’ve found this possible ERF NGC Mk2■■?Well, I guess CDB might have influenced ERF with the Scania-front and that ERF expected same
results as well as general acceptance, with only a ‘minor’ adjustment due to technical need for
more engine compartment.
I don’t think this is a picture of an ERF. During 1972, the year in which the NGC 420was being developed with its Motor Panels Mark 4 cab, a long-haul version of their new Mark 5 cab called the ‘Trans-continental’ was presented at the Earls Court motor show. Truck manufacturers could choose their own grille design. It had bunk beds, a shaver socket and a wash basin with taps and hot and cold water. Ford is believed to have shown an interest in it, but ended up choosing the Berliet cab instead for its ‘Transcontinental’ model. It’s not clear whether Ford acquired this name from Motor Panels. The 7MW cab probably benefitted from this programme. Robert
I read with interest Saviem’s diary notes above. I remember reading that Euro Test when it came out in '75 and being vastly impressed! When I was putting my book together I wrote my observations about the ERF’s performance in the test as follows:
In the June 1975 edition of Truck magazine the ERF NGC 420 was pitted against five other top continental long-haulers on Truck’s first ‘Euro-Test’ round its gruelling Ardenne route in Belgium. The other tractors featured were: a Mercedes Benz 1932S, a Saviem SM340, a DAF 2800 DKS, a Scania LB 140S and a Volvo F89-32. Each pulled a French-built tilt trailer and grossed thirty-eight tonnes. Their route was tougher than most continental operators would normally use. Pat Kennett wrote:
‘We selected our route carefully to show up the abilities and deficiencies of engine, transmission, suspension and steering. The 103 km stage down in the forested Ardennes region between Verviers and Bastogne was very tough indeed, climbing to over 1800 feet six times with gradients up to one in 7.5. One hill alone, at Spa, climbs over 1000 feet in one go!’
On the demanding mountain section of the route, the NGC 420 was described as ‘king’ because it’s overall hill-climbing ability was the best of the lot, largely because of the quick gear-changes possible with the constant-mesh Fuller RT9095 ‘box which had direct-top and a clutch-brake. For the uninitiated, a clutch brake — sometimes called an inertia brake — slows down the cogs for rapid upshifts and is activated by pushing the clutch pedal to the floor: it cannot be used for downshifts. The testers described the gears as follows:
‘Simplest was ERF’s with a normal H-shift and a vertical switch for high/low range; no snags, no fuss, and, with the clutch brake in use, very fast gear shifts. ERF introduced this design a few months back and it is very much better than the original.’
I think this referred to the introduction of the H-shift Fuller RT9095 from 1975 onwards, replacing the U-shift RT09095A. This gearbox performed far better than the ponderous synchromesh ‘boxes in the mountains (which should have come as no surprise to anyone who had used a 9-speed Fuller, I would have thought) and the turbo-charged ERF NGC 420 was ‘comfortably ahead’ of the opposition. It held the Euro-Test mountain section speed record for several years. The more powerful Scania wasn’t far behind though and to be fair, scrutiny of the tables shows that there was really precious little between the ERF and the Scania on the hill section. However, it was a salutary lesson in how the ERF’s constant-mesh gearbox could make up for the 15 bhp shortfall. Interestingly, the DAF had a thirteen-speed Fuller RTO9513, which let it down because the splitter mechanism was a bit ‘hit-and-miss’ and it finished forty-five minutes behind the ERF. Another factor in the ERF’s favour was its Jake Brake, which meant that not only was it able to ascend quickly, but descend quickly and safely too. The main picture, showing the ERF storming through a Belgian town, was captioned, ‘ERF King of the mountains’; perhaps a wry reference to Scania’s ‘King of the Road’ slogan of the period. Little did the testers know that NGC 420s would one day haul road-trains across the mountains of Arabia.
The NGC 420 was the only one of the six not to have independent cab suspension, though it did have a suspended driver’s seat. Testers found that in the ERF, the absence of any cab suspension meant that the chassis suspension did not ‘fight’ the driver’s seat suspension, as it did in the other trucks. They spoke very highly of ERF’s version of the old Motor Panels cab and although the quality of the door and window handles was criticised, as were the rear windows; the mirrors were praised and so were the self-cancelling indicators (which the ERF shared only with the Mercedes). Not surprisingly, given the gruelling test route, the ERF returned just 5.23 mpg overall but the Scania and the Saviem were thirstier. On the motorway the ERF returned 5.92 mpg but in the mountains, just 3.80 mpg. Belgian diesel cost under 40p per gallon at the time. The ERF NGC 420was deemed one of the better road-holders and the steering was declared accurate. With its engine brake (Jacobs Brake), it had by far the best downhill retardation of the six units tested. Frankly, the NGC 420 came out exceptionally well from this test and was the overall fastest truck in the mountains if, alas, the noisiest! It’s list price in 1975 was £12.750. Incidentally, the original test piece is a treasure-trove: a wonderfully professional, rigorous account of six classic ‘seventies long-haulers pulling tilt trailers; filled with important detail and subtle references. Pat Kennett’s admiration for the ERF ‘European’ shines through his analysis of its performance. It remains a great piece of period truck journalism that leaves the reader well-informed and wiser.
Reflecting upon that Eurotest seventeen years later in the December 1992 edition of TRUCK magazine, Pat Kennett wrote: ‘That tough-looking ERF was the fastest by far round our 439 km route in Belgium’. This comment was made whilst making a fascinating comparison between the old NGC 420 and the newly tested ERF E-series. Pat showed that in those seventeen years huge steps had been taken in terms of weight-saving, fuel-consumption, comfort, earnings factors and performance. Nonetheless, he shrewdly pointed out that ‘Perhaps the thing that has changed most over the years is the enjoyment of driving…One could enjoy the performance of a spirited truck such as the NGC 420.’ And it is this last comment that separates the science of progress from that ‘x’ factor I mentioned in my introduction: the sheer pleasure of driving ‘70s ERFs.As far as I am aware, no operator - and certainly no accountant - ever chose tractor units that were ‘more fun to drive’. But it is significant that a high proportion of NGC 420s was operated by owner-drivers, both at home and abroad. Using the ‘more fun to drive’ criterion as a serious consideration when choosing a long-hauler ran the risk of coming up with some eccentric winners, but in the case of the ERF NGC 420, the winner was be a well-made truck with a terrific driveline. Hope that helps, Robert:)
robert1952:
… Ford is believed to have shown an interest in it, but ended up choosing the Berliet cab instead for its ‘Transcontinental’ model. It’s not clear whether Ford acquired this name from Motor Panels…
Blimey- even the name was a bought-in part!
The orange - cabbed tractor posted by ERF Continental is in fact a prototype model from the Hungarian manufacturer, Raba. I think that image is a scan from one of my brochures that was posted on Big Lorry Blog or Flickr some time ago.
Ford did use a Motor Panels cab on the prototype of the Transcontinental, but it was not a Mark IV cab as fitted to the ERF MW, it was a Mark V as fitted to the Foden Fleetmaster, Scammell Commander etc. There might be something in the name being “bought in” though…
Here’s another Motor Panels scan, this time related to the subject in hand…
@Richard…sorry I ‘robbed’ probably your input from elsewhere…I can’t remember where and when I found
this image, but apparently Räba had a thorough research before applying the MAN- and DAF-cabs later on.
Your OWEN-input is very much appreciated!
With regards to ERF service network. I once met a Canadian driver on the boat singing the praises of Mercedes and their European network compared to ERF. I asked him why he thought Mercs had such a big network.
On another occasion I was south of Stuttgart heading for Singen in my E series 16ltr when I met a RH Stevens driver with an Iveco Wag & Drag’. He told me I was a braver man than him bringing that lump all the way down there. When I cast a glance at his rather tired Iveco he said that at least when that broke down he was never far from a service agent and asked what I did when I broke down.
I had to tell him I didn’t know as I’d only had the truck 2 years. 
SAVIEM: ‘what a stonking hooligan of a lorry, so much power, such a crude final finish, such a DRIVERS motor. Shot up that big hill at Spa, and the bendy bit at Houffalize the ERF blew holes in the Scania 140. But it should with a 335 ■■■■■■■■ a straight RT9509 and twin plate, with a clutch stop.’
‘Saviem’ I would love to add to my passage about the Euro Test in my book that you were actually present at that '75 EuroTest, quoting your colourful description above. I crave your permission to do so! Incidentally, that Euro Test was the first one of many. ‘Hot rod’ indeed - love it! Robert 
@Robert…thank you for your addition to Lowe’s…as well as
suggestions to offer ERF-literature…however I am afraid the
Driver’s Handbook in English is a very rare item, I am also more
or less strugling with the French version, but that is. Will keep
eyes and ears open if I find something appropriate for you, but
you will have noticed that ERF as well as NGC420 is chinese for
some people in the automotive.
By the way…did Smith of Maddiston (I have a very nice model
sheets and ropes on my desk of their A-series) went Continental?
A-J
If anyone has a copy of that Truck magazine Eurotest, featuring the NGC420, please scan it and post it here. It will provide plenty of inspiration for this discussion.
Evening all,well this old thread gets more interesting, and more complex as the days roll by…
Where can we start?
Richards posting of the Motor Panels European, (Transcontinental), brochure dates from the time that Sir Alfred Owens Darlaston, South Staffordshire, (for so it was before everyone started “mucking about” with county boundaries…Darlaston was never, never, never, ever in the “black country”), automotive manufacturing group decided to put the group name forward, rather than the individual company. Hence the cab produced by Coventry`s Motor Panels, rightly was marketed as an Owen Group product…as were the axles, chassis frames, agricultural equipment, and of course the stunning BRM racing car.
What is left now? Well the Church at Bentley, nr Walsall, at the heart of the estate built for the Rubery Owen workers…a malicious rumour said that one penny was deducted from everyones bonus to pay for it! And remember Owen was one of the original backers when Sydney Guy left Sunbeam Motor Company to set up by himself as Guy Motors, back in 1914!
ERF Continental, J&A Smith had a very active Belgium based operation in the late 60s and 70s. Though most trailers employed on this traffic were tandem axle 33ft box vans…behind Guy Big J tractor units…universally ■■■■■■■ powered, and to my knowledge most were day cabs! Their maroon and white livery was transposed so that the major colour was white, with maroon highlights.
Now ERF Continentals ERF “service” guide, (and is it not just sparse)! must date from the late 70s, (and I take on board Zzarbean`s comments regarding needing repair facilities)! But it shows Soc MABO as the French agent. I wonder did ERFs management ever realise just who they had appointed? Or as I suspect the approach probably came from MABO to ERF.
May I bore you all to tears with a little background to Soc MABO, 49 Rue de Paris, Clichy, Hauts de Seine?
Founded in 1946 by a Parisien Hotelier, Rene Marchais, and an up market hat manufacturer, with a shop and workshop on the Rue de Rivoli, Jean Boue. A new transport “adventure”, using a WW2 surplus Mack NR14, and based at Kremlin-Bicentre, Seine .
By 1956 MABO, (the name was created from the combination of the first two letters of each of the founders names), was out of transport, and concentrating on the supply of ex military surplus Mack parts. The founders having being joined by Rene Marchaises son in law, the Russian Igor Makharine. A man of immense business acumen and energy.
Any imported vehicle was subject to a large tax burden by the French Government, and virtually no new Mack trucks appeared in France despite a Mack importer Soc SIFTA exhibiting at the 1956 Paris Salon. But sales of surplus vehicles, and of more financial importance their parts via MABO prospered. 1960 MABO moved again to larger premises at Levallois Perret, then 62, Ted Zellor Vice President of Mack Worldwide, drove through the acquisition of the old French lorry manufacturer, (and Gardner engine licence builder), Bernard, and MABO lost its role as importer of Mack , to become, once more a Concessionaire.
This is not the thread to dwell upon the unhappy demise of Bernard and Macks operation by 1967 and the transfer of Bernards machine tooling to Iran,but MABO had moved again in 66 to the Clichy premises of some 3500 sq m, and once more they began assembling, and selling Macks for France. Igor Makhraine had negotiated the purchase of the entire Bernard /Mack parts operation, and the move to 10000sqm premises at la Briche Saint Denis, Seine-St Denis, at the end of 1973 where an assembly plant was created. Notable amongst the products built was the Motor Panels cabbed F715T 14 litre V8 280 bhp, sae, “ugly duckling” tractor unit, as well as DMs and F serie tractors.
But storm clouds on the horizon…Renault Vehicules Industriels, and Mack were coming together! MABOs premises suffered a serious fire, yet their parts business, (world wide), prospered, and in 1974 they began importing ERF product. Previous Mack clients , Christian Zucconi, (as per the brochure image), from Montreuil, and Val de Oise based Cosson were early conquests. But ERF could not satisfy the delivery required on product, nor did they have a suitable bonneted 6x4 for the rigid Traveaux Publics market, long a stronghold of Mack and Berliet. To satisfy this market MABO imported some White chassis.
The ERF importation slowly died, yet in MABO ,ERF had potentially a sub assembler, concessionaire, and real door opener into the French market. To give some idea of MABOs strength, from 66, to 74 Soc MABO sold 1073 Mack products in France.But to add a little more mystery to ERF in France, Igor Makharine once told me that the initial contract vehicles were to have been “Serie C”!!!
Im late for bed, for it is a full day tomorrow…
Cheerio for now.
[zb]
anorak:
If anyone has a copy of that Truck magazine Eurotest, featuring the NGC420, please scan it and post it here. It will provide plenty of inspiration for this discussion.
I have it and would have posted it earlier on, but it runs to about 20 pages I’m afraid. Robert
I posted a pic on the Comart thread, asking for the mystery blue and white to be identified, and received a response. Robert