I found this photograph here:
baumaschinenbilder.de/forum/ … readview=0
There is a 5MW brochure here, but I could not download it at a readable resolution. Those with an Imageshack account may have more success:
camionesclasicos.com/FORO/vi … 83&t=17879
@anorak
nice picture, very rare to see a drawbar NGC…and be comfort, I can’t open/handle the MW-brochure
[zb]
anorak:
I found this photograph here:
baumaschinenbilder.de/forum/ … readview=0There is a 5MW brochure here, but I could not download it at a readable resolution. Those with an Imageshack account may have more success:
camionesclasicos.com/FORO/vi … 83&t=17879
There appear to have been about three draw-bar outfits. ERF built and exhibited a 4x2 drawbar version at the 1973 Brussels Motor Show. This passed, via Best Truck Imports of Rotterdam, to Thibaut of Belgium (JJ 393). A draw-bar tilt was operated by an unknown French operator with the registration 4644FX94. This picture was taken by the truck photographer Pasquale Caccavale and it shows it looking very shabby and battle-weary with a three-axle tilt trailer in the backstreets of Torino. It was operated by Transports Gentilucci Freres of Villeneuve La Garenne in France. When I was researching my forthcoming book, the French transport historian, Phillipe Mathurin, told me that he was parked up with this vehicle in Milano in 1977 and had a meal in a local trattoria with the driver who turned out to be one of the brothers who owned it. The driver told Phillipe that the ERF pulled better than their Volvo F89s and was ‘a real beast’. The Volvos ran to Poland and Russia, but because ERF after-sales back up wasn’t so good, their NGC 420 saw only western European service. Hope this illuminates! Robert 
ERF-Continental:
@anoraknice picture, very rare to see a drawbar NGC…and be comfort, I can’t open/handle the MW-brochure
enclosed a NGC420 (bought in November 1975, registration L.423.R) when a load of timber/wood was
loaded in Waldthurn Germany, again with CARL on front, son of the driver and nowadays he is one of the
directors of a fleet of approx 200 tractors and 500 trailers over several countries throughout Europe!I do remember that in late seventies approx 20 trailers ex-BAFMA were bought…the nice wide-spread’s!
This was a great livery and the ERFs always seem to look resplendent in it, in all these photos. Niels Jansen took some really good ones of this fleet which he has given me permission, via Wobbe Reitsma to use in the book. Robert
To be frank…Niels Jansen has quite a very negative (commercial) reputation over here, but I don’t want to interfere
about that over here (he being more a one road harvester) and also I am very curious about the results and your book!
John
Hiya.
ERF-Continental:
To be frank…Niels Jansen has quite a very negative (commercial) reputation over here, but I don’t want to interfere
about that over here (he being more a one road harvester) quote]Evening A-J, well that you said that, often the operator that tries the “unusual lorry”, has a good reason! A common result in the UK as well!
Cheerio for now.
Did some research in old archives…I think you mean Bryan Hunt who started 1959 at ■■■■■■■ (his first order would probably have been the ■■■■■■■ engine for ERF 24-ton four-wheeler from Charlie ■■■■ of Northampton, who were frequently transporting ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ and retired in 1990?
Nice day, A-J
[/quote]
Evening all, A-J, totally correct, it was Bryan Hunt…the image of his face has been in my mind, and I could not recall his surname.
Very different personality from Cyril Acton, more of a “street fighter”. Lowered the cost of production per chassis considerably, by rationalising the ranges, and individual options available, and made ■■■■■■■ the standard engine option. Sales effort was concentrated on the market segments where the statistics told ERF that they were strong.
I recall that at the time that David, and Michael tried to purchase “in bulk” for Trans Arabia, ERF were struggling to satisfy to fleet orders in terms of chassis production. All were for UK operations, and would give ERF market leadership in the 28 tons plus segment of the market, as measured by registration statistics provided by the SMMT, (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders). This leadership would have given comfort to the Institutional Shareholders, so important to provide funding liquidity essential for ERFs future.
The potential afforded by the request for Europeans by S Jones must have been very tempting, but preservation of the penetration within the domestic UK market was essential for ERF, and ERF were struggling to evolve a credible European market strategy, as well as maintain, and increase their UK market share. The potential was there, but could they produce, and vitally support the sold product. Sadly the answer was no they could not!
Trans Arabia was a bold move for S Jones. The creation , with a local partner, into a market place where potential earnings from a limited capital investment base, could, within a five year period have equalled that of the existing Group was a stunning strategy. David Hughes was good with his numbers, but in relative terms S Jones as a Grouping, (all businesses, Transport, Shipping, Vehicle Distribution), was a mini supertanker, and turning it around was not going to be a quick fix! And so it proved.
The ERF European, and various other non UK market products offered by ERF are an interesting point of study. The products would stand equal alongside those of any other manufacturer, either vertically integrated, or assembler. But establishing, and making sure that the financial integrity of any European Dealer Network remained viable was a far harder problem to solve, and this latter point for any product is just as important as the build quality/economy of operation.
Bryan Hunt can be credited with starting to prepare ERF for Europe and beyond, and of course my friend John Bryant drove things forward at a great pace, but despite excellent products, ERF was a financial minnow in both European and world terms, Western Star became the suitor, then of course our Teutonic friends…and ERF is no more.
I applaud this discourse on the European examples of ERF, like so often just a glimpse of what might have been…
Cheerio for now.
Saviem said: ‘The ERF European, and various other non UK market products offered by ERF are an interesting point of study. The products would stand equal alongside those of any other manufacturer, either vertically integrated, or assembler. But establishing, and making sure that the financial integrity of any European Dealer Network remained viable was a far harder problem to solve, and this latter point for any product is just as important as the build quality/economy of operation.’
Hello Saviem. Your paragraph which I’ve quoted above, really sums up the position in which the ERF European model found itself. It was indeed a remarkably good quality product which suffered from a lack of infrastructure to see it all through. This was not all ERF’s fault: the financial climate was deteriorating fast at that time for UK manufacturers exporting. Robert
@robert: nice input again and good you show one of the three volumes of Belgian Truck Nostalgia by Mario Maes!
Volume 1 is no longer available however there is a listing with people interested in a reprint later.
It reminds me to mail Mario as in one of these volumes a picture of B-series of Gruwez is printed, he sure will
provide one for this thread.
Have a pERFect day! A-J
robert1952:
…It was indeed a remarkably good quality product which suffered from a lack of infrastructure to see it all through. This was not all ERF’s fault: the financial climate was deteriorating fast at that time for UK manufacturers exporting.
We have touched on this before, with regard to the failure of the GB lorry-builders, in threads about all periods from the 1950s onward. While the products may have been “remarkably good”, it is obvious that the GB makers lacked the engineering prowess of the Continentals. To be brutally frank, the 7MW-cabbed ERF seemed like the result of a bunch of farmyard fabricators trying to copy the Scania 140, half a decade after that vehicle commenced production. 3300John’s account of the assembly process of the cab is a literal example of this. The labour cost of that process alone would have made any of the Continental manufacturers wince.
What all this fails to mention is that Europe was not universally averse to the notion of a crudely engineered but functional, assembled-from-parts lorry. The positive testimonies of various Continental operators, mentioned on this thread, of the 7MW ERF are evidence that there was unfulfilled demand for vehicles like it. The challenge for ERF was not to beat the competition on details like interior trim quality, driver comfort or styling, but to generate enough sales to support a dealer network big enough. This Catch 22 situation would only have been broken by ERF’s having the cash to fund the building of that network, then waiting for the sales volumes to catch up, to a level which would sustain it. ERF had a good case for the injection of a lump of Government money, you might think.
[zb]
anorak:robert1952:
…It was indeed a remarkably good quality product which suffered from a lack of infrastructure to see it all through. This was not all ERF’s fault: the financial climate was deteriorating fast at that time for UK manufacturers exporting.We have touched on this before, with regard to the failure of the GB lorry-builders, in threads about all periods from the 1950s onward. While the products may have been “remarkably good”, it is obvious that the GB makers lacked the engineering prowess of the Continentals. To be brutally frank, the 7MW-cabbed ERF seemed like the result of a bunch of farmyard fabricators trying to copy the Scania 140, half a decade after that vehicle commenced production. 3300John’s account of the assembly process of the cab is a literal example of this. The labour cost of that process alone would have made any of the Continental manufacturers wince.
What all this fails to mention is that Europe was not universally averse to the notion of a crudely engineered but functional, assembled-from-parts lorry. The positive testimonies of various Continental operators, mentioned on this thread, of the 7MW ERF are evidence that there was unfulfilled demand for vehicles like it. The challenge for ERF was not to beat the competition on details like interior trim quality, driver comfort or styling, but to generate enough sales to support a dealer network big enough. This Catch 22 situation would only have been broken by ERF’s having the cash to fund the building of that network, then waiting for the sales volumes to catch up, to a level which would sustain it. ERF had a good case for the injection of a lump of Government money, you might think.
Dai Davies bears out much of what you say in his ERF book.
I once again remind readers that a fair bit of info and pictures of NGC 420s appeared on the ‘Vijore Middle East transport’ thread. Earlier I posted a picture of PDF 444R which had made it to Karachi in Pakistan. ‘Factoryaprilia’ posted a nice piece about its driver, his late father, Pete Robson. Apparently, he not only drove this unit to Pakistan, but to Afghanistan, and Iraq (at least 15 times). Here is his picture, again, of the unit somewhere in Pakistan (judging by the surroundings and costumes). Robert
Meanwhile, I have tried to work out where this picture was taken (below). It appears that it was taken just east of Damascus on the road that goes directly to Iraq and so to Baghdad. Great pic! Robert
robert1952:
[zb]
anorak:robert1952:
…It was indeed a remarkably good quality product which suffered from a lack of infrastructure to see it all through. This was not all ERF’s fault: the financial climate was deteriorating fast at that time for UK manufacturers exporting.We have touched on this before, with regard to the failure of the GB lorry-builders, in threads about all periods from the 1950s onward. While the products may have been “remarkably good”, it is obvious that the GB makers lacked the engineering prowess of the Continentals. To be brutally frank, the 7MW-cabbed ERF seemed like the result of a bunch of farmyard fabricators trying to copy the Scania 140, half a decade after that vehicle commenced production. 3300John’s account of the assembly process of the cab is a literal example of this. The labour cost of that process alone would have made any of the Continental manufacturers wince.
What all this fails to mention is that Europe was not universally averse to the notion of a crudely engineered but functional, assembled-from-parts lorry. The positive testimonies of various Continental operators, mentioned on this thread, of the 7MW ERF are evidence that there was unfulfilled demand for vehicles like it. The challenge for ERF was not to beat the competition on details like interior trim quality, driver comfort or styling, but to generate enough sales to support a dealer network big enough. This Catch 22 situation would only have been broken by ERF’s having the cash to fund the building of that network, then waiting for the sales volumes to catch up, to a level which would sustain it. ERF had a good case for the injection of a lump of Government money, you might think.
Dai Davies bears out much of what you say in his ERF book.
In fact (everything is easy afterwards) ERF might propose/suggest their most professional operators with a good workshop to act as service-dealer. That was
also the case with Van Steenbergen/Transport Arendonk who had a ‘separate’ company “Garage De Arend” (Dutch for eagle) for servicing trucks in general and ERF (and White and Krupp) together with ■■■■■■■ in specific! Advantage…win-win for both ERF and service-dealer (as tools and mechanics together with the majority of spares might be available) and last but not least the driver/operator. In that way a professional network could have been built gradually and with to be overseen investments. The real problem was perhaps that no German-operators were there as also can be said from the more Southern countries, so in fact every operator has to deal with mobile shop to get their trucks on the road again.
"ERF-Continental:
In fact (everything is easy afterwards) ERF might propose/suggest their most professional operators with a good workshop to act as service-dealer. That was
also the case with Van Steenbergen/Transport Arendonk who had a ‘separate’ company “Garage De Arend” (Dutch for eagle) for servicing trucks in general and ERF (and White and Krupp) together with ■■■■■■■ in specific! Advantage…win-win for both ERF and service-dealer (as tools and mechanics together with the majority of spares might be available) and last but not least the driver/operator. In that way a professional network could have been built gradually and with to be overseen investments. The real problem was perhaps that no German-operators were there as also can be said from the more Southern countries, so in fact every operator has to deal with mobile shop to get their trucks on the road again.
The lack of dealers in outside Belgium, the Netherlands and France would have made the vehicles less attractive to operators, even the ones based in those countries. The only way to market a true European lorry would have been to have service back-up everywhere the vehicles were likely to travel. The likes of Volvo, Scania and DAF had been building such a network up since the 1950s, so ERF in the 1970s was in the position of needing considerable investment in parts stocks, premises and training, just to compete on a level playing field. Without that cash injection, their efforts were unlikely to be rewarded with sufficient sales to make the European business profitable. In my view. 
Hiya …its sad to say .
3300John:
Hiya …its sad to say …if you’d have seen what a small area ERF had to assemble trucks you’d die. the factory was so small.
Its some kind of mirical they could assemble anything. when it came to buy new land to build a factory they was stuck
with trying to buy land in one of the most expensive counties in country.It was years earlier ERF bought Jennings to expand
the old works by twice the size. there was still a problem as the plot was a triangle with a large school on one side and
two major roads on the others. the plot is now a(don’t know how to say)Mcdonalds… how could they.and health centre
The Foden works in Elworth must have been 5 times the size of sun works…(i always wondered if it should have been son
works as how he split away from the family outfit).
repair shop should come to where it said Jennings i think, but its quite close to how the building were set out.
i think the fibre glass shop was where part of the trim shop is marked.
you see the assembly part of the old works (1971ish)was quite small. Jennings had been making carrages for 150 years
before Edwin come along that,s why they had a large working area. Edwin put his works close to where the cabs was to be made.John,
I agree and standing aside it was a hard but good job assembling in this (restricted) area…something to be proud of and what
shows how eager and keen ERF was to provide best quality trucks! My jumping/adding here was merely meant to make operators
first ‘responsible’ to proceed and show on an active area and network. Also importers (e.g. Best Truck and Denonville/CDB) were
frequently assisting and combining efforts in terms of spares etc.Well, for the good memory herewith a (will make a better picture later) nice picture of the assembly from the painting distributed
to commemorate ERF 60 years in 1993.Nice day,
A-J
