Just an idle thought. Although a small number of LHD B-series units found their way into the circus/fairground world at the end of their lives, to my knowledge no NGCs ever did. Robert
robert1952:
[zb]
anorak:
Leyland set up a service network specifically for ME traffic- something to do with their support of the BRS effort to that region, IIRC. That would have made Leyland a competitor to Scania, in theory. Did ERF have that box ticked?No, ERF didn’t have that box ticked. And only hindsight informs us that with or without a support network, the ERF NGC arguably proved to be sufficiently more reliable than the Marathon not to require an elaborate network. I would love to have done a trip down there with a Marathon and then a 2nd trip with the ERF, but of course that is too simplistic because no two trips are remotely the same on M/E work. Robert
Realistically it’s doubtful as to whether Leyland’s ‘service network’ would have been any more effective than any of the other Brits even across the channel let alone East Euro and the Middle East.
On that note was the ERF any less of a sensible choice than Friderici’s Middle East operations using Kenworths for example.Bearing in mind an analogy,that worrying about service back up throughout the route between here and Iran/Saudi for example,would have been similar to Lancaster crews worrying about service back up facilities over Germany and vice versa in the case of Heinkels and Dorniers,if the plane broke down for whatever reason. 
In which case I’d agree that it was all about how good and reliable the product was to prevent breakdowns in the Arabian desert not where the nearest fully stocked and specialist trained staffed service agent was.In which getting anything major fixed was always going to be a lottery.The logical choice then just being that of the reliability of either US/Brit type American based engines and drivelines etc v German or Scandinavian.While Leyland were never going to be in that race regardless of the ‘service back up’ issue.With Friderici for one having made the choice in favour of American over the obvious ( for the Swiss ) Mercedes alternative. 
Carryfast:
robert1952:
[zb]
anorak:
Leyland set up a service network specifically for ME traffic- something to do with their support of the BRS effort to that region, IIRC. That would have made Leyland a competitor to Scania, in theory. Did ERF have that box ticked?No, ERF didn’t have that box ticked. And only hindsight informs us that with or without a support network, the ERF NGC arguably proved to be sufficiently more reliable than the Marathon not to require an elaborate network. I would love to have done a trip down there with a Marathon and then a 2nd trip with the ERF, but of course that is too simplistic because no two trips are remotely the same on M/E work. Robert
Realistically it’s doubtful as to whether Leyland’s ‘service network’ would have been any more effective than any of the other Brits even across the channel let alone East Euro and the Middle East.
On that note was the ERF any less of a sensible choice than Friderici’s Middle East operations using Kenworths for example.Bearing in mind the analogy that worrying about service back up throughout the route between here and Iran/Saudi for example would have been similar to Lancaster crews worrying about service back up facilities over Germany if the plane broke down for whatever reason.
In which case I’d agree that it was all about how good and reliable the product was to prevent breakdowns in the Arabian desert not where the nearest fully stocked and specialist trained staffed service agent was.In which getting anything major fixed was always going to be a lottery.The logical choice then just being that of the reliability of either US/Brit type American based engines and drivelines etc v German or Scandinavian.While Leyland were never going to be in that race regardless of the ‘service back up’ issue.With Friderici for one having made the choice in favour of American over the obvious Mercedes alternative.
Good point about Friderici, and interesting to bear in mind that they continued that strategy later on by purchasing a lot of LHD Fodens. Robert
robert1952:
Good point about Friderici, and interesting to bear in mind that they continued that strategy later on by purchasing a lot of LHD Fodens. Robert
Let’s just say that if I’d have been an owner driver doing Middle East the choice/dilemma would have been between whether to go for Detroit or ■■■■■■■ powered KW not KW or Mecedes/Scania. 
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Good point about Friderici, and interesting to bear in mind that they continued that strategy later on by purchasing a lot of LHD Fodens. RobertLet’s just say that if I’d have been an owner driver doing Middle East the choice/dilemma would have been between whether to go for Detroit or ■■■■■■■ powered KW not KW or Mecedes/Scania.
My dilemma would have been whether or not to stencil a legend on the bumper of my NGC. Robert
robert1952:
It is the quality of light in this shot of a Trans Arabia NGC in Jeddah that I notice first. Robert0
Great photo Robert. As you know, we were quite closely associated with Trans Arabia at Caravan, buying our ERF’s from Star Commercials. No NGCs though!
Just read your book ‘Lorries of Arabia’ , which was a birthday present. A great read, and I recommend it to anyone with an interest in lorry driving in the seventies. I’m not quite as analytical (give or take a few letters!) as you about the details of the engines and drivelines.
The best truck I drove in Saudi was a Kenworth 6x4 that I had on test for 2 weeks when I still owned the Saviem. It was a 290 I think. Can’t remember if it was 9 or 13 speed Fuller! It never (unlike the Saviem) overheated. Great big bunk and proper air conditioning! I loved it and should have bought it, but was talked out of it by Peter Best, who was TM at Caravan at the time. His argument was that I wouldn’t make any more money with that than I was making with the Saviem. I saved the money and sent it home - then I got divorced!
Trans Arabia bought some of those KWs later on, so they were obviously good for the desert!
John
robert1952:
It is the quality of light in this shot of a Trans Arabia NGC in Jeddah that I notice first. Robert0
Robert
Sorry but this picture not in the desert with the hill view behind and that tip of house also the vehicle along side is my Chev Blazer
Must get a copy of your book - got the first one
Regards
Ken b
Kenb:
robert1952:
It is the quality of light in this shot of a Trans Arabia NGC in Jeddah that I notice first. Robert0
Robert
Sorry but this picture not in the desert with the hill view behind and that tip of house also the vehicle along side is my Chev BlazerMust get a copy of your book - got the first one
RegardsKen b
Glad you enjoyed book 1, Ken 
. Funnily enough, I was only thinking last night that it has been a while since we heard from you. By the way, I think you will enjoy book 2 because you get much more of a mention in there. If you remember, I sought your permission to quote you on a few details, which you gave . Enjoy! Robert
robert1952:
Kenb:
robert1952:
It is the quality of light in this shot of a Trans Arabia NGC in Jeddah that I notice first. Robert0
Robert
Sorry but this picture not in the desert with the hill view behind and that tip of house also the vehicle along side is my Chev BlazerMust get a copy of your book - got the first one
RegardsKen b
Glad you enjoyed book 1, Ken
Oh - I forgot to say that TA117& 118 were bought new direct from Sandbach for cash!! for the Almasarne contract but were a disappointment as they kept falling to pieces and spent a week n the garage being rebooted and welded back together after a trip there or even worse shunting in everyday off the man highway to site
I have been going the TA site a wide berth as I believe some of the comments made have been bordering on sue ing for slander and a lot of what has been printed is not correct and someone is either high on something or dreaming - shame
I keep in touch with Martin as he lives not to far away
You can always msh me for any details that you may require help with
Cheers
Ken b
Kenb:
robert1952:
Kenb:
robert1952:
It is the quality of light in this shot of a Trans Arabia NGC in Jeddah that I notice first. Robert0
Robert
Sorry but this picture not in the desert with the hill view behind and that tip of house also the vehicle along side is my Chev BlazerMust get a copy of your book - got the first one
RegardsKen b
Glad you enjoyed book 1, Ken
Oh - I forgot to say that TA117& 118 were bought new direct from Sandbach for cash!! for the Almasarne contract but were a disappointment as they kept falling to pieces and spent a week n the garage being rebooted and welded back together after a trip there or even worse shunting in everyday off the man highway to site
I have been going the TA site a wide berth as I believe some of the comments made have been bordering on sue ing for slander and a lot of what has been printed is not correct and someone is either high on something or dreaming - shame
I keep in touch with Martin as he lives not to far awayYou can always msh me for any details that you may require help with
Cheers
Ken b
Cheers Ken. TA 117 & 118 were B-series 4x2s and part of a cancelled Swiss batch, I understand. Interesting to hear that the0se B-series weren’t as robust as the NGCs, but that theme has recurred in my researching.
I’ve been alert to the dynamics of the TA thread all along and I could see quite clearly at the time why you slipped away. I’ll keep out of that one!
If you find any more NGC material in your archives, do PM me for my email, or pop it on here. Regards, Robert
robert1952:
Cheers Ken. TA 117 & 118 were B-series 4x2s and part of a cancelled Swiss batch, I understand. Interesting to hear that the0se B-series weren’t as robust as the NGCs, but that theme has recurred in my researching.
That’s interesting.You’ll have noted previously from just a logical engineering perspective I’ve discounted the B series as arguably being inferior to the NGC and gone for the KW as a good Middle Easter.When experience in the field seems to be confirming my view.
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Cheers Ken. TA 117 & 118 were B-series 4x2s and part of a cancelled Swiss batch, I understand. Interesting to hear that the0se B-series weren’t as robust as the NGCs, but that theme has recurred in my researching.That’s interesting.You’ll have noted previously from just a logical engineering perspective I’ve discounted the B series as arguably being inferior to the NGC and gone for the KW as a good Middle Easter.When experience in the field seems to be confirming my view.
Indeed. As argued before on here, the B-series was initially designed to be a domestic day-cabbed replacement for the A-series. It was later developed into a suitable replacement for the NGC. The NGC was designed from the outset to be a robust long-hauler. Robert
robert1952:
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Cheers Ken. TA 117 & 118 were B-series 4x2s and part of a cancelled Swiss batch, I understand. Interesting to hear that the0se B-series weren’t as robust as the NGCs, but that theme has recurred in my researching.That’s interesting.You’ll have noted previously from just a logical engineering perspective I’ve discounted the B series as arguably being inferior to the NGC and gone for the KW as a good Middle Easter.When experience in the field seems to be confirming my view.
Indeed. As argued before on here, the B-series was initially designed to be a domestic day-cabbed replacement for the A-series. It was later developed into a suitable replacement for the NGC. The NGC was designed from the outset to be a robust long-hauler. Robert
Robert
TA Fleet
101/2/3. Pre A series ERF 4 X 2 ■■■■■■■■ David Brown. Ex S Zjones fleet
104 was a 5MW. 4 X 2 Ex S Jones fleet
105/6/7/8/9/10. We’re 7MW ERF 4 X 2 brand new ex Sandbach
111/12/13/14/15/16. Were Mack 6 X 4 conventional caned New ex States
117/118 were B Series ERF 6 X 4 with sleeper cab brand new ex Sandbach
119/20/21/22/23/24 were Kenworth 6 X 4 cab overs purchased from GCC Damman
Then there were second hand ERFs details I do not have
There have been pictures on this date of 117/118 on the Almasarne job on this site as 6 X 4 Taffe Bill and Goggi were the drivers at New
Cheers
Ken b
Thanks for that, Ken! I have got the 7MWs covered, and Cookie has a good list of the 2nd hand ERFs, along with the one’s converted into 6x4 tractors by S Jones. Robert
robert1952:
Thanks for that, Ken! I have got the 7MWs covered, and Cookie has a good list of the 2nd hand ERFs, along with the one’s converted into 6x4 tractors by S Jones. Robert
Robert you are very polite - thank you
I think I could be wrong after 116 Mack - will have yo dig out my fleet lists - my memory is playing me up - I remember I bought a truck from Beresfords. It may have been a 5mW - this was after I had been to Holland and Belgium with no luck - Holland phoned Belgium and got the door closed - there were 5 & 7mw’s had been stood for years but wouldn’t sell!! Never got to the bottom of that one
Cheers
Ken
Kenb:
robert1952:
Thanks for that, Ken! I have got the 7MWs covered, and Cookie has a good list of the 2nd hand ERFs, along with the one’s converted into 6x4 tractors by S Jones. RobertRobert you are very polite - thank you
I think I could be wrong after 116 Mack - will have yo dig out my fleet lists - my memory is playing me up - I remember I bought a truck from Beresfords. It may have been a 5mW - this was after I had been to Holland and Belgium with no luck - Holland phoned Belgium and got the door closed - there were 5 & 7mw’s had been stood for years but wouldn’t sell!! Never got to the bottom of that one
Cheers
Ken
Good morning, Ken!
The 7MW you acquired from Beresford Transport, according to my notes, was JDF 132N which became TA 125. It started out as an ERF demonstrator with a ■■■■■■■ NTC 335 and 9-speed Fuller.
The 7MW, TA 124 was bought second-hand from Holland and had the same drive-line as above. Another 7MW, TA 126, came second-hand from Holland at the same time and this one was kitted out for HAZ-chem and was fitted with a ■■■■■■■ NTC 290 and 13-speed Fuller. It was almost certainly the one operated by Schaap. Vince Cooke remembers picking them both up from Harwich docks on a flat-bed trailer to be prepared for TA at S Jones’s workshops. A third Dutch unit (TA 139) had the 335/Fuller 9 combination.
The twelve TA ERF NGCs (7MWs) were numbered: 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 124, 125, 126, 139, 142 & 143. The first six were brand new, just as you stated. The middle ones we’ve just discussed.The last two were from Eric Vick.
I hope this jogs your memory! Thank you for your interest.
Cheers, Robert
I’ve been revising and updating my own ERF NGC ‘European’ register - something I do on a regular basis - partly in preparation for a revised (2nd edition) of my first Lorries of Arabia book which will happen eventually. So I thought I’d share it with anyone who is interested in the minutiae of my NGC project.
Firstly, you’ll notice that I’ve renumbered my own ID column on the left-hand side of the page. I keep doing this so don’t worry: those numbers are only for my own reference because they refer to folders with all the evidence for each unit, which I file away.
Secondly, you’ll notice that I have removed unregistered ERF Demo units. Those with registration numbers or identifying liveries (like JLG 35N, KDM 460N and the CDB unit with the Savoyarde trailer) remain on the list.
Thirdly, you’ll notice that I have clustered the five pairs of units thought to be one-and-the-same (but not conclusively verified yet) at the end, listed 68a/68b, 69a/69b, 70a/70b, 71a/71b, & 72a/72b.
Fourthly, I have added a section showing ‘false friends’: those other three non-NGC units which have had 7MW cabs retrofitted.
The tally sits at approx. 72 units at the moment. Please don’t hesitate to let me know if you spot any anomalies or errors.
Enjoy! Robert
Here is a scan of the picture that appears on the front cover of Lorries of Arabia Part 2. It was taken by Chris Till, who drove KFH 249P for five years on Middle-East work. It didn’t miss a beat. Many of his excellent pictures appear in the book, along with anecdotes told by Chris and by other members of the VIJORE team. Robert
Nice book review in the May issue of Vintage Roadscene. R