Incidentally, does anyone know who took this picture? It was clearly taken immediately before or after the first trip to Baghdad because there are no Kysors on the roof. Perhaps it was a press photo. Robert
robert1952:
0
This picture is made by Niels Jansen, during his visit when also outside the DEA.044 in the
snow was captured with the KRUPP ‘enjoying’ retirement at the left.
ERF-Continental:
robert1952:
0This picture is made by Niels Jansen, during his visit when also outside the DEA.044 in the
snow was captured with the KRUPP ‘enjoying’ retirement at the left.
Thank you. That’s useful to know. I have amended the caption to reflect this. Robert
I bring you the good news that Lorries of Arabia 2: ERF NGC is now completed and is lodged with the publisher. Should be out in March. Incidentally, I have already started work on ‘book 3’, but this will probably be created as a series of illustrated magazine articles. Robert 
Towards the end of the introduction to my next book, Lorries of Arabia 2: ERF NGC (hopefully due out in spring), I make a strong case for the NGC being ERF’s main long-haul tractive unit built for purpose at the time. I attempt to show that it was certainly not a ‘stop-gap’ between the 3MW and the B-series, not least because the B-series was a replacement for the A-series (not the NGC), was only offered with a day cab and comparatively low-powered engines and because ERF didn’t bring out the LHD big sleeper cab until ’77 when they terminated the NGC.
I am delighted to see that Patrick Dyer, in his new book ERF B, C, CP & E-series, makes the same point and backs it up with more evidence. On pages 11 and 24 he makes it quite clear that the B-series day cab was not designed to be turned into a sleeper (just as the A-series wasn’t). He also makes it clear that it wasn’t even designed to be taken on cross-channel trips, let alone exported to the continent. Basically, it was a very good shopping trolley in its original concept.
Robert
robert1952:
Towards the end of the introduction to my next book, Lorries of Arabia 2: ERF NGC (hopefully due out in spring), I make a strong case for the NGC being ERF’s main long-haul tractive unit built for purpose at the time. I attempt to show that it was certainly not a ‘stop-gap’ between the 3MW and the B-series, not least because the B-series was a replacement for the A-series (not the NGC), was only offered with a day cab and comparatively low-powered engines and because ERF didn’t bring out the LHD big sleeper cab until ’77 when they terminated the NGC.I am delighted to see that Patrick Dyer, in his new book ERF B, C, CP & E-series, makes the same point and backs it up with more evidence. On pages 11 and 24 he makes it quite clear that the B-series day cab was not designed to be turned into a sleeper (just as the A-series wasn’t). He also makes it clear that it wasn’t even designed to be taken on cross-channel trips, let alone exported to the continent. Basically, it was a very good shopping trolley in its original concept.
Robert
Maybe more evidence that ‘something’ happened regarding the business relationship between Motor Panels and ERF.Which obviously resulted in the B series having to replace all of the lost MP cabbed product development line.With as I said the SA 400 - series taking over the natural development line of the NGC. 
Which leaves the question did ERF let pride get in the way of good sense.Or did SA put an exclusive supply rights clause on the 400 series cab design ?.The fact that Foden or Leyland Group also didn’t seem to take obvious advantage of a ready made competitor to the foreign competition,thereby saving all the costs of the development of the inferior T45 cab in the case of Leyland group,and bearing in mind Leyland’s previous MP connection in the case of the Crusader,suggests that maybe it was the latter.Which would possibly explain the apparent forced change in market placement of the B series.
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Towards the end of the introduction to my next book, Lorries of Arabia 2: ERF NGC (hopefully due out in spring), I make a strong case for the NGC being ERF’s main long-haul tractive unit built for purpose at the time. I attempt to show that it was certainly not a ‘stop-gap’ between the 3MW and the B-series, not least because the B-series was a replacement for the A-series (not the NGC), was only offered with a day cab and comparatively low-powered engines and because ERF didn’t bring out the LHD big sleeper cab until ’77 when they terminated the NGC.I am delighted to see that Patrick Dyer, in his new book ERF B, C, CP & E-series, makes the same point and backs it up with more evidence. On pages 11 and 24 he makes it quite clear that the B-series day cab was not designed to be turned into a sleeper (just as the A-series wasn’t). He also makes it clear that it wasn’t even designed to be taken on cross-channel trips, let alone exported to the continent. Basically, it was a very good shopping trolley in its original concept.
Robert
Maybe more evidence that ‘something’ happened regarding the business relationship between Motor Panels and ERF.Which obviously resulted in the B series having to replace all of the lost MP cabbed product development line.With as I said the SA 400 - series taking over the natural development line of the NGC.
Which leaves the question did ERF let pride get in the way of good sense.Or did SA put an exclusive supply rights clause on the 400 series cab design ?.The fact that Foden or Leyland Group also didn’t seem to take obvious advantage of a ready made competitor to the foreign competition,thereby saving all the costs of the development of the inferior T45 cab in the case of Leyland group,and bearing in mind Leyland’s previous MP connection in the case of the Crusader,suggests that maybe it was the latter.Which would possibly explain the apparent forced change in market placement of the B series.
C/F, There was nothing inferior about the T45 CAB, IMO, May I ask if you ever drove a Leyland with this cab or sleep in one at any time I think not otherwise you would not be calling these cabs inferior, Regards Lary.
Lawrence Dunbar:
C/F, There was nothing inferior about the T45 CAB, IMO, May I ask if you ever drove a Leyland with this cab or sleep in one at any time I think not otherwise you would not be calling these cabs inferior, Regards Lary.
I never drove an SA 400/401 etc but I did drive a few T45’s which ended up in our fleet after a takeover.From what I’ve seen at face value the SA 400 cab design seemed to be more than a match for the DAF 2800 unlike the T45.Which probably partly explains the direction and fortunes of DAF v Leyland in terms of cab design at least.
As ‘[zb]Anorak’ has already pointed out: it made sense to bring the cab manufacture in-house. If the NGC had been allowed to continue after 1977 ERF would have had to sustain the already established dual system in which the B-series was made in-house and the NGC cab outsourced to Motor Panels of Coventry. Robert
I do not point things out. 
[zb]
anorak:
I do not point things out.
Well: as Anorak adumbrated in the silhouette of one of his recent suggestions… Robert
Here you go Carryfast: Motor Panels SA 400 LHD cab for the post '77 NGC European mark 2 (courtesy of ‘paint’). You are right: there was little wrong with that cab for the period (I drove a SA 400 for a short while).
The problem is, that with hindsight we can get carried away with all sorts of fantasies about what COULD have happened. For a start, if the NGC had been offered in RHD would that have transformed its fortunes? We’ll never know! Robert
Now then, to stray a little from the topic, here’s a potentially exciting possibility. Here is the only picture I know of that shows GEH 513N in its original Beresford livery. It is featured in Lorries of Arabia. This is when Albert Dale ran it as a Beresford subbie on Swiss work. However, we now know from a source I posted on this thread a little while back, that he eventually did Middle-East work with it running tiles down and carpets back to Glasgow. A closer look at this picture reveals that it has been fitted with those breather pipes up the back of the cab (which it kept, by the way, when it went to John Simmons). Only six Middle-East spec NGCs appear to have been fitted with them. These were retro-fitted by their operators. Albert Dale probably had his fitted when he embarked upon Middle-East work, so there is a very high chance that this picture (possibly taken on the seafront at Dover) shows GEH 313N on one of its Middle-East runs. Can anyone shed more light on this? John3300 perhaps? Robert
robert1952:
Here you go Carryfast: Motor Panels SA 400 LHD cab for the post '77 NGC European mark 2 .0
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Here you go Carryfast: Motor Panels SA 400 LHD cab for the post '77 NGC European mark 2 .
Might as well do the job properly! Here is a better manifestation of your vision, CF. With the more frugal ■■■■■■■ big-cam E290 or 350 fitted, and a choice of 9 or 13-speed Fuller, this would have made a magnificent Mark 2 NGC. You do have a point! Robert
robert1952:
Carryfast:
robert1952:
Here you go Carryfast: Motor Panels SA 400 LHD cab for the post '77 NGC European mark 2 .2
Might as well do the job properly! Here is a better manifestation of your vision, CF. With the more frugal ■■■■■■■ big-cam E290 or 350 fitted, and a choice of 9 or 13-speed Fuller, this would have made a magnificent Mark 2 NGC. You do have a point! Robert
10
That top pic is brilliant more or less like it was meant to be. 
When a single ERF NGC appeared on Stand 87 at the Earls Court motor show in 1974, Commercial Motor provided this very useful description in its 20th September issue:
The 42-ton-gtw tractive unit, the ERF European, is also new to Earls Court although it made its public debut at the 1973 Brussels Show. The sleeper-type cab is totally different from the B-series being panelled in steel on a steel sub-frame and many of these vehicles are already operating in France, Belgium and Holland. The engine is one of the larger ■■■■■■■ units, the turbocharged NTC 335, which develops 237kW (317 bhp) at 2,100rpm and a maximum torque of 1,261Nm (930 lb ft) at 1,500rpm. The rear axle is of 13-tonne (12.8-ton) capacity while the front is plated at 6.5tonnes (6.4 tons). Telescopic dampers are specified front and rear. Compared to the normal 270-litre fuel tank on the UK B-series, the European tractor has a capacity of 360 litres (80 gal). The wheelbase is slightly longer at 3.8m (lift 2 in) compared with 3.0 m (9ft 10 in).
Robert
Crisp and clear description! Herewith (again) the exhibitioned NGC.
ERF-Continental:
Crisp and clear description! Herewith (again) the exhibitioned NGC.
Yes indeed. That picture of the vehicle I have described above was an official photograph taken by Peter Davies at the 1974 show, and is copyright to him. I recently had the pleasure of discussing it with him. Robert
Last weekend Alexander got a confirmation that the ‘mysterious’ NGC on the CDB-yard IS a demonstrator.
Sales manager Michel Hansquine from CDB and also living in Mechelen added to him that this tractor was
on a semi-lease to customers for demonstrations. It was registrated with a (green on white) traders-plate
which was covered here on the accompanying picture. Those plates started with ZZA.111 towards …
Score till now is 11 NGCs for both Holland and Belgium…when the second Damco GG (NL) and the Wagner
from Gosselies-Charleroi (B) are excluded in this number.
