I recently drove by car from north west France to about a quarter way up Sweden and back. I was so struck by the difference in driving standards as you go from one country to another:
Sweden, drivers leave about 20m between cars. If they join a road 100m behind you, 5km later they will still be at least 100m behind you. Almost no one breaks the speed limit. People generous about letting other drivers out of junctions.
Denmark, slightly more frisky than Sweden but still in the safe zone.
German, a bit of aggression biting now but you get the sense it’s more about wanting to make progress on the autobahn rather than intimidate other drivers.
Netherlands, back to heaven. As calm, safe and courteous as Sweden.
Belgium, a little rough round the edges, but still nothing to worry about.
France, within 20 seconds of being over the border the bullying begins. 50cm from your bumper at 100km, driving a meter to the left even on a slip road where there’s no possibility to pass anyway, every man for himself, no quarter given, if a new car appears in your rear mirror as a tiny blot in the distance, ten seconds later you will be able to see the whites of the driver’s eyes.
The astonishing thing is how this changes the very moment you cross a border. Anyone else noticed anything similar?
wanderingstar:
I recently drove by car from north west France to about a quarter way up Sweden and back. I was so struck by the difference in driving standards as you go from one country to another:
Sweden, drivers leave about 20m between cars. If they join a road 100m behind you, 5km later they will still be at least 100m behind you. Almost no one breaks the speed limit. People generous about letting other drivers out of junctions.
Denmark, slightly more frisky than Sweden but still in the safe zone.
German, a bit of aggression biting now but you get the sense it’s more about wanting to make progress on the autobahn rather than intimidate other drivers.
Netherlands, back to heaven. As calm, safe and courteous as Sweden.
Belgium, a little rough round the edges, but still nothing to worry about.
France, within 20 seconds of being over the border the bullying begins. 50cm from your bumper at 100km, driving a meter to the left even on a slip road where there’s no possibility to pass anyway, every man for himself, no quarter given, if a new car appears in your rear mirror as a tiny blot in the distance, ten seconds later you will be able to see the whites of the driver’s eyes.
The astonishing thing is how this changes the very moment you cross a border. Anyone else noticed anything similar?
Get down to Nice and it’s getting a bit Italianate. Cross over and it’s more so. Rome…getting there…Napoli…even more so, but just crossing into Sicily!
Yep, you’re right there is a noticeable change at the frontiers, but there are marked regional changes too.
Plus the “normal” city vs countryside differences.
Very interesting Franglais. I have heard it gets progressively worse as you go south and I have heard also that the Italians are the worst of all the Latin countries at driving. Interesting the same pattern exists in Italy too - that the further south you get, the hairier it becomes. The basic correlation seems to be the better the weather, the worse the driving. I have no idea why!
Frec knows what jonny foreigner thinks about our driving habits when they drive over here. At least they dont sit in the middle lane for a fortnight overtaking fresh air.
The best way to compare driving standards between countries is to look at the stats on road mortality rates. France’s level is double that of the UK and of Sweden. Middle lane hogging really gets on my nerves but it’s not the most dangerous habit out there.
Maybe different driving attitude is because of the hotter the country, the later they eat their evening meal at night , some countries it’s normal to start eating at 22.00 , then socialising with friends and late nights in nightclubs .
With a few hours sleep, it takes four double expressos to wake you up, then a three hour lunch, then Siesta for a sleep, then back to work.
With all that caffeine, it can make them a bit moody behind the wheel.For Paris, all the cars have dents and scratches and aggressive driving.
wanderingstar:
The best way to compare driving standards between countries is to look at the stats on road mortality rates. France’s level is double that of the UK and of Sweden. Middle lane hogging really gets on my nerves but it’s not the most dangerous habit out there.
There is scope for error in the figures…of course…
France is a transit country and some of the trouble is from foreign drivers, especially in holiday periods. The accidents on Friday and Saturday in July and August are horrific. Week at wotk, dinner at home, then straight drive from Paris to the Med. Hence the rules on group and truck movement then.
French truck drivers comment on how polite the English are! I’m convinced that many UK drivers are tolerant of strangers and give them the leeway they wouldn’t give to locals. I reckon that works in a lot of places. As a foreigner I may be treated better than a local.
Not every one is a Mail reader!
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There seems more “policing” and resentment of poor driving in the UK.
If someone does summat silly UK, they ate blocked out, or flashed at. In Italy they’re ignored. Maybe it’s too common there to wadte energy on being upset?
And France is also the transit country for the Muslim families who travel long distances from Northern Europe to get the ferries to North Africa, they often drive unroadworthy vehicles and trailers full of all types of household goods , including the kitchen sink, old tyres, new tyres , either to sell it all or can’t leave anything behind in case they get burgled.
This is not a good mix with heavy tourist traffic and lorries in the summer, the Arabs are known to drive to non stop , but kip under the trees in the shade for a comfort break then drive all day and night . Being overweight is also common for their vehicles. Whole families have been killed in bad crashes from fatigue.
Tarmaceater:
Maybe different driving attitude is because of the hotter the country, the later they eat their evening meal at night , some countries it’s normal to start eating at 22.00 , then socialising with friends and late nights in nightclubs .
With a few hours sleep, it takes four double expressos to wake you up, then a three hour lunch, then Siesta for a sleep, then back to work.
With all that caffeine, it can make them a bit moody behind the wheel.For Paris, all the cars have dents and scratches and aggressive driving.
Tarmaceater:
Maybe different driving attitude is because of the hotter the country, the later they eat their evening meal at night , some countries it’s normal to start eating at 22.00 , then socialising with friends and late nights in nightclubs .
With a few hours sleep, it takes four double expressos to wake you up, then a three hour lunch, then Siesta for a sleep, then back to work.
With all that caffeine, it can make them a bit moody behind the wheel.For Paris, all the cars have dents and scratches and aggressive driving.
Welcome back toby1234abc .
Definitely Toby’s style of writing. It’s unique. Just missing a story about lunch with the mayor.
Tarmaceater:
And France is also the transit country for the Muslim families who travel long distances from Northern Europe to get the ferries to North Africa, they often drive unroadworthy vehicles and trailers full of all types of household goods , including the kitchen sink, old tyres, new tyres , either to sell it all or can’t leave anything behind in case they get burgled.
This is not a good mix with heavy tourist traffic and lorries in the summer, the Arabs are known to drive to non stop , but kip under the trees in the shade for a comfort break then drive all day and night . Being overweight is also common for their vehicles. Whole families have been killed in bad crashes from fatigue.
And then you have all the Portuguese, beginning of July down the A10/A63 from Paris, running home for a 2 month break.
again with their motors choca with anything that they can load and of course the family inside.
End of August, repeat in reverse
All fantastic points I hadn’t thought of! I especially like the blurry-eyed caffeine diurnal cycle one but all of them are brilliant!
Straying away from stats and back into personal anecdote:
Almost every day I drive a truck in France I see an accident, very often a nasty one. If the carriageway does get plugged up with an accident, I see many cars aggressively fighting it out with one another to get an inch ahead. Including driving up a slip road and straight back down again on the slip road directly ahead just in order to try and squeeze a few more metres advantage. This slip road thing I’ve never seen in the UK, and rather than every day, I reckon I saw an accident there about once every one or two weeks.
Both in the UK and France I have noticed the demographic profile of people standing next to broken down cars next to the dual carriageway does not correspond proportionally to the profile of the general population. And almost invariably there is more than one vehicle occupant, and usually enough to fill the car completely.
wanderingstar:
All fantastic points I hadn’t thought of! I especially like the blurry-eyed caffeine diurnal cycle one but all of them are brilliant!
Straying away from stats and back into personal anecdote:
Almost every day I drive a truck in France I see an accident, very often a nasty one. If the carriageway does get plugged up with an accident, I see many cars aggressively fighting it out with one another to get an inch ahead. Including driving up a slip road and straight back down again on the slip road directly ahead just in order to try and squeeze a few more metres advantage. This slip road thing I’ve never seen in the UK, and rather than every day, I reckon I saw an accident there about once every one or two weeks.
Both in the UK and France I have noticed the demographic profile of people standing next to broken down cars next to the dual carriageway does not correspond proportionally to the profile of the general population. And almost invariably there is more than one vehicle occupant, and usually enough to fill the car completely.
Aren’t broken down vehicles more likely to be older? So those standing next to them are likely to be less well off?
That is definitely a big factor I am sure. I think also there can be an element of how well maintained the vehicle is and how mechanically sympathetic the owner is. For instance getting oil changes, checking coolant level, thrashing the engine, attending to funny noises before whatever fault it is develops too far, etc. My own car is approaching quarter of a million miles so I’m one of those people who drives with fingers crossed!
Of all the countries you’ve mentioned, Belgium is the most appalling, it always looks to me as if their license was handed over by a sixpack of Jupiler. It’s bad on the motorways, but absolutely beyond belief on the national roads, no respect whatsoever for lorries, instead of that, they’ll overtake you whilst being in a village and in a 50km/h zone. Cutting you off on the motorway seems to be a national sport too for them, it’s therefore always a relief if I make it in one piece to France, apart from the numpties on the BP I always find it very relaxing to drive in France.
The Italians and especially the Romans are just very creative with the space that’s available, why would you only use 3 lanes when you’ve got “enough” room left to turn it into at least 5 lanes and 6 at best
I lived in Belgium almost 12 years and I always found their standards of driving appalling,including so called professionals many of whom couldn’t reverse onto a football pitch.I was told at the time that the introduction of a driving test was relatively recent.
These days I drive my car from Roscoff,Caen,Le Havre or Dieppe to Alicante 3 round trips a year.Generally speaking I find the spanish ok and that the french standard has improved immensely over the last few years.I respect urban speed limits and do 110 - 120 kph max.It’s been some years since I had any grief over my GB plate even in roadside checks.Have penalties for traffic offences become severe over the last few years in France?
When the covid crisis is over i intend to visit the site of my dad’s pow camp near Wroclaw in Poland then show my wife the scenic route via Slovenia and Italy back to Alicante.I know Italians are loonies behind the wheel but they aren’t offensive with it.As for Poland and Slovenia who can tell me what to expect?
Gidders:
When the covid crisis is over i intend to visit the site of my dad’s pow camp near Wroclaw in Poland then show my wife the scenic route via Slovenia and Italy back to Alicante.I know Italians are loonies behind the wheel but they aren’t offensive with it.As for Poland and Slovenia who can tell me what to expect?
I’ve been to Poland last week actually, I always quite enjoy it, certainly after they’ve improved their road netwerk, first time I went to Poland there was only one stretch of motorway from Poznan towards Frankfurt/Oder… The motorways are similar to the French ones including toll stations. National roads aren’t too bad either, you might bump into worn out roads in the bigger cities though, or even some cobbled stones patches but all in all it’s a pleasant drive. The drive style seems to be alright as well, apart from the ones that drive big Merc’s, BMW’s or Audi’s.
If you get a chance I strongly recommend that you visit Wroclaw, it’s got a very nice medieval town centre and there’s a very laid back atmosphere. And it doesn’t cost you an arm and a leg. When there, try to spot all the little statues spread around the city centre.
Can’t really remember much about Slovenia, from memory it wasn’t bad, but it’s been 13 years ago since I last drove up there… things might have changed a bit…
Gidders:
I lived in Belgium almost 12 years and I always found their standards of driving appalling,including so called professionals many of whom couldn’t reverse onto a football pitch.I was told at the time that the introduction of a driving test was relatively recent.
These days I drive my car from Roscoff,Caen,Le Havre or Dieppe to Alicante 3 round trips a year.Generally speaking I find the spanish ok and that the french standard has improved immensely over the last few years.I respect urban speed limits and do 110 - 120 kph max.It’s been some years since I had any grief over my GB plate even in roadside checks.Have penalties for traffic offences become severe over the last few years in France?
+1
So it’s not just me then who thinks it’s appalling
I’ve only lived in France since 2019. From what I’ve read tho they have clamped down a lot on traffic offenses compared to ‘the old days’. The speed limits off the big roads are often ridiculously low which does nothing to engender a respect for the law.
One thing I will say about driving in France is I have not once, ever seen a pothole here.
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