Driving from yard to ferry - a whole work day?

wendyb · 12 October 2018 06:50

Morning all,

Apologies in advance if this topic has been covered elsewhere - had a quick search and nothing jumped out at me.

Anyway, I’m asking on behalf of the other half, as he is currently behind the wheel. He is on his first week of Euro work (British company, answering now to Belgian office) after umpteen years driving in the UK. He started on Sunday at around 4pm - well, I say started, he had his card in for only about an hour, just driving from the yard onto the ferry. He was then on the ferry for 15 hours or so, i.e. disembarking on Monday morning.

He’s been given quite a lot of work, about 900kms worth of driving, to end the week. He won’t get all of that done today, he thinks he’ll have 200km or so left to do. His colleague reckons he can drive tomorrow until approx. 3pm to run in, as last Sunday doesn’t essentially count as a working day. I’m not too sure about this - granted his card was only in for a short time, but it was still in - and was hoping somebody here can point us in the right direction.

For what it’s worth, he’s had one 15 hour working day/reduced break of 9 hours, and hasn’t extended his driving hours to 10 hours at all this week.

Ta in advance!

franglais · 12 October 2018 08:03

Sunday’s work does count as work. Can’t see any way around that.
He’s ok to work until 16hr00 on Sat. That’s 6 periods of 24hrs from his start time.
That won’t work as a regular shift pattern as it won’t allow correct weekend breaks.

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rog · 12 October 2018 08:27

EU regs go by hours not days or shifts

Driver has a max of 144 hours between any two weekly rests (24+ hours off in one go = a weekly rest)

If the last weekly rest was at least 45 hours then it may be reduced to a minimum 24 hours starting no later than 4pm Saturday

harry_monk · 12 October 2018 08:49

Basically if he started work at 1600 on Sunday he can work until 1600 on Saturday.

franglais · 13 October 2018 13:58

This thread may be of interest too:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=149081

grumpy_old_trucker · 13 October 2018 16:03

Driving a blue truck is he?
Firstly, his “colleague”who told him he that driving to the dock doesn’t count as duty is a moron and if he doesn’t book off and park up by 1559 today and is stopped in Belgium he risks being fined a month or twos wages, I kid you not!
Secondly, regardless of what the office in Zeebrugge with the blue trucks give him to do, if he can’t do it legally then he should not do it and find a company that run legally and pay a decent wage… unlike that firm with the blue trucks.
I’ve spoken to many of their drivers and I’ve not met a single one that is happy working there.

hurryup_amp_wait · 16 October 2018 00:25

It’s a bit too late for him now however I take a different view to the others.

In similar situations when my 24/45 is already completed and if I can get onto the ferry using two interruptions totaling less that one hour then I set the tacho accorgingly and my Day/Week doesn’t start until I drive off on the other side.

From disembarking the ferry I now have 6 x 24 hours (144) maximum before I must commence my next weekly rest.

No control has had a problem so far.

dieseldog999 · 16 October 2018 00:50

Hurryup&wait:
It’s a bit too late for him now however I take a different view to the others.

In similar situations when my 24/45 is already completed and if I can get onto the ferry using two interruptions totaling less that one hour then I set the tacho accorgingly and my Day/Week doesn’t start until I drive off on the other side.

From disembarking the ferry I now have 6 x 24 hours (144) maximum before I must commence my next weekly rest.

No control has had a problem so far.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+1 to the above.
ive done the same on various occasions over the years and have yet to be done for it.
show your shunt onto the boat,and start your working time once your off it.
having the wire on till you get to where your shunt starts always takes the bad look away from it though?

franglais · 16 October 2018 12:30

Hurryup&wait:
It’s a bit too late for him now however I take a different view to the others.

In similar situations when my 24/45 is already completed and if I can get onto the ferry using two interruptions totaling less that one hour then I set the tacho accorgingly and my Day/Week doesn’t start until I drive off on the other side.

From disembarking the ferry I now have 6 x 24 hours (144) maximum before I must commence my next weekly rest.

No control has had a problem so far.

May I suggest that may be less
“100% legal, no worries”
and more
“Got away with it”. ■■

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whelmic · 18 October 2018 18:43

Hurryup&wait:
It’s a bit too late for him now however I take a different view to the others.

In similar situations when my 24/45 is already completed and if I can get onto the ferry using two interruptions totaling less that one hour then I set the tacho accorgingly and my Day/Week doesn’t start until I drive off on the other side.

From disembarking the ferry I now have 6 x 24 hours (144) maximum before I must commence my next weekly rest.

No control has had a problem so far.

Ferry mode can be used to split a daily rest period, but not a weekly rest period so your 144 hours starts as soon as you start your weeks driving. The only way around this would be if the ferry crossing was at least 24 hours long.

milodon · 18 October 2018 19:31

Isn’t it possible to interrupt a reduced weekly rest nowadays? 2 months since my CPC and no need to drive a lorry so…

franglais · 19 October 2018 05:16

I’ve seen it written that you can interrupt a “normal daily rest”, but never seen a link to interrupting a reduced daily rest or to a weekly rest.
So, in absence of contrary evidence…

No. You can’t interrupt a weekly rest period.

I’ve no doubt people have done this as they say. I’ve no doubt they are honest when they say they have been controlled with no bad results.
That still doesn’t make it legal.

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hurryup_amp_wait · 20 October 2018 08:44

Franglais:
I’ve seen it written that you can interrupt a “normal daily rest”, but never seen a link to interrupting a reduced daily rest or to a weekly rest.
So, in absence of contrary evidence…

No. You can’t interrupt a weekly rest period.

I’ve no doubt people have done this as they say. I’ve no doubt they are honest when they say they have been controlled with no bad results.
That still doesn’t make it legal.

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Franglais and Whelmic, I see where you guys are coming from however bear with me.

When I have done 45 hours rest my weekly rest is over and at time 45 hours and 1 minute I am not interrupting weekly rest.

You guys I understand hold the view that once you start a weekly rest, it continues to be a weekly rest until you next change mode on the Tacho which could be days, months or even years long.

Vosa documentation explains 90 hours rest together over Sunday night can count as two separate weekly rests for two separate weeks and not as one that runs on and on continuously.

When the control checks for weekly rest he looks for a portion of normal rest that meets the 2 qualifying criteria.

Is it required?
Is it long enough (24/45)?

Any additional rest hours are just rest.

Let’s say I have already completed my regular weekly rest for this week and start work on Monday morning.

I get another 45 hrs rest Tuesday and Wednesday. Was that a weekly rest?

Not really because of point 1 above unless I decide later that I will now run for 6 days straight and thus need it under point 1 above and it was long enough under point 2 above.

In other words regular weekly rest is any suitable and required 45 hours section only of a rest period in that week.

Any extra hours are just rest and I guess that’s why The Man doesn’t say …sorry drive but you have interrupted your regular weekly rest at Hour 70 to get the boat.

Apologies for being a bit long winded, I need some of Tachograph’s superb skills.

franglais · 20 October 2018 13:38

Hurryup&wait:
When I have done 45 hours rest my weekly rest is over and at time 45 hours and 1 minute I am not interrupting weekly rest.

Agree.

Hurryup&wait:
When the control checks for weekly rest he looks for a portion of normal rest that meets the 2 qualifying criteria.

Is it required?

Sorry, I don`t see that point.
If it was a break during the day would it only count if it was required? Surely there is no minimum work (maybe one minute?) required before ending one break and starting another?

You finish a weekend rest when you do any work no matter how brief.
There`s nothing, I can see to stop you commencing another weekend rest after just one minute of work is there?

Hurryup&wait:
I get another 45 hrs rest Tuesday and Wednesday. Was that a weekly rest?

Yes.
Any period of 24hrs or more will count as a weekly rest. I dont see any reason, it wouldnt .

Again, Ill repeat I am no expert*, but thats the way I see it.

*not at anything!

milodon · 21 October 2018 06:59

Yeah it’s definitely not right and the claim, that one hasn’t been fined for it doesn’t carry too much weight.

hurryup_amp_wait · 23 October 2018 21:31

If I were off for 60 hours this weekend and then move to the ferry you guys view the whole 60 hours as weekly rest and thus I interrupted weekly rest and broke the regulation.

I say once there is a clear un-interrupted 45 hours on the card whatever I did thereafter did not interrupt weekly rest.

If I were off for 69 hours straight the regs say that can count as two separate weekly rests whereas you guys I understand view that as one weekly rest.

If I were off for 10 years you guys view that as one very long weekly rest. I say only some 45 hour period last week and any suitable 45 hour period this week were weekly rest.

All the other free time had nothing to do with weekly rest.

So let’s just agree to differ and as long as your way works for you and mine for me the job is oxo.

franglais · 24 October 2018 04:47

Hurryup&wait:
If I were off for 60 hours this weekend and then move to the ferry you guys view the whole 60 hours as weekly rest and thus I interrupted weekly rest and broke the regulation.

I say once there is a clear un-interrupted 45 hours on the card whatever I did thereafter did not interrupt weekly rest.

If I were off for 69 hours straight the regs say that can count as two separate weekly rests whereas you guys I understand view that as one weekly rest.

If I were off for 10 years you guys view that as one very long weekly rest. I say only some 45 hour period last week and any suitable 45 hour period this week were weekly rest.

All the other free time had nothing to do with weekly rest.

So let’s just agree to differ and as long as your way works for you and mine for me the job is oxo.

So long as it works, there’s no worries.
All agreed there.

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milodon · 24 October 2018 05:59

Hurryup&wait:
I say once there is a clear un-interrupted 45 hours on the card whatever I did thereafter did not interrupt weekly rest.

How come? Once a weekly rest is interrupted, it is in fact over with and a new work week begins. The logic is totally lost on me.