Just a quick question when stationary while waiting for accident to clear does this count as driving time e.g set off at 5 am hit accident at 6.30 am clears at 7.30 aprox 15 mins driving shunting have 45 break at 10 is this legal ■■
And can you open tacho to check hours?
Thanks in advance si
SI_A:
Just a quick question when stationary while waiting for accident to clear does this count as driving time e.g set off at 5 am hit accident at 6.30 am clears at 7.30 aprox 15 mins driving shunting have 45 break at 10 is this legal ■■And can you open tacho to check hours?
Thanks in advance si
Whether it’s legal or not depends on how much driving you did whilst in the queue.
Any time you were stationary whilst waiting does not count as driving so if you were literally stationary from 06:30 to 07:30 then you would have been legal as you couldn’t have done 4.5 hours driving before having the break.
if you mean you did 15 minutes actual driving in that hour then you are still legal as you could have done 4.5 hours driving at most.
From what you’ve posted I would say you are likely to have done less than 4.5 hours driving before having the break.
It’s illegal to open the tachograph to check the chart until the end of shift and as you may know if you do open the tachograph the chart will be marked to show that the tachograph was opened so best not do it 
I thought it was ok to open an analogue tacho to count up hours during the shift as long as the reason was put on the back??
tachograph:
SI_A:
Just a quick question when stationary while waiting for accident to clear does this count as driving time e.g set off at 5 am hit accident at 6.30 am clears at 7.30 aprox 15 mins driving shunting have 45 break at 10 is this legal ■■And can you open tacho to check hours?
Thanks in advance si
Whether it’s legal or not depends on how much driving you did whilst in the queue.
Any time you were stationary whilst waiting does not count as driving so if you were literally stationary from 06:30 to 07:30 then you would have been legal as you couldn’t have done 4.5 hours driving before having the break.
if you mean you did 15 minutes actual driving in that hour then you are still legal as you could have done 4.5 hours driving at most.
From what you’ve posted I would say you are likely to have done less than 4.5 hours driving before having the break.
It’s illegal to open the tachograph to check the chart until the end of shift and as you may know if you do open the tachograph the chart will be marked to show that the tachograph was opened so best not do it
thanks for the reply mate, my tm seems to think the FTA said it was driving time even if stationary how can this be right■■?
SI_A:
thanks for the reply mate, my tm seems to think the FTA said it was driving time even if stationary how can this be right■■?
Well as far as the law is concerned and for the domestic rules, if you’re sat in a vehicle for the purpose of controlling it you are driving, but for the EU tachograph regulations “Driving Time” is defined as the duration of driving activity recorded automatically or manually on a tachograph, OR manually written on a printout or chart ec’t.
I’m assuming that you drive to EU regulations ?
If you are driving to EU regulations then, if it’s not recorded as driving time on your tachograph or manually written on a chart/printout ec’t as driving time then it’s not driving time
thanks lads i needed some ammo lol for him…
ROG:
I thought it was ok to open an analogue tacho to count up hours during the shift as long as the reason was put on the back??
i also thought this rog
also is there any legislation i can quote about the recorded hours only counting towards the driving hours ive had a look but not to much luck.
thank you
If I lose track of my hours during the day, I open up and have a look. If VOSA don’t like it - tough. I would take that one to court. How am I supposed to make sure I’m legal if my counter gets reset by mistake, or I lose my bit of paper with my breaks on?
tachograph:
If you are driving to EU regulations then, if it’s not recorded as driving time on your tachograph or manually written on a chart/printout ec’t as driving time then it’s not driving time
I don’t believe there is any particular law that stops a driver checking his card on an analogue machine, apart from the fact that says a continuous record must be kept.
However a quick glance with the head open to count up the hours or distance travelled must be allowed as there is no other way to check on a hinged unit.
Myself I wouldn’t mark the chart on the rear for that reason, unless it was for a vehicle or driver change with a delay
SI_A:
is there any legislation i can quote about the recorded hours only counting towards the driving hours ive had a look but not to much luck
Remember that this is for EU regulations, the definition of driving for domestic rules is different
(j) ‘driving time’ means the duration of driving activity
recorded:– automatically or semi-automatically by the recording
equipment as defined in Annex I and Annex IB
of Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85, or– manually as required by Article 16(2) of Regulation
(EEC) No 3821/85;
SI_A:
ROG:
I thought it was ok to open an analogue tacho to count up hours during the shift as long as the reason was put on the back??i also thought this rog
Wheel Nut:
I don’t believe there is any particular law that stops a driver checking his card on an analogue machine, apart from the fact that says a continuous record must be kept.
Opening Tacho During A Shift (A Trucknet-UK thread)
Page 32 - Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs
drivers must: not remove the chart from the instrument before the end of their duty period unless authorised
to do so. The rules do not specify who can authorise removal of the chart, but cases where charts can be removed include:
— a change of vehicle;
— to make manual entries in the event of an emergency, equipment malfunction etc
Article 15 COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 3821/85
The record sheet shall not be withdrawn before the end of the daily working period unless its withdrawal is otherwise authorized
The Sarge:
If I lose track of my hours during the day, I open up and have a look. If VOSA don’t like it - tough. I would take that one to court. How am I supposed to make sure I’m legal if my counter gets reset by mistake, or I lose my bit of paper with my breaks on?
The likelihood is that it would not go to court, but if it ever did you would lose
See the links in the post above.
I do not remove the card, I open the unit (regulation doesn’t mention that), turn my head and check the card whilst it is still in the unit 
And it WOULD go to court, because I would refuse to pay any fine levied for this…
The Sarge:
I do not remove the card, I open the unit (regulation doesn’t mention that), turn my head and check the card whilst it is still in the unit
And it WOULD go to court, because I would refuse to pay any fine levied for this…
When I said it probably wouldn’t go to court I meant because it appears that as long as VOSA are satisfied that the tachograph wasn’t opened for the purpose of fiddling they won’t take any action.
The quote below is from the thread I linked to above, sorry I haven’t yet been able to find the actual case notes or even what the court case was about but I’ll have another go when I have more time.
The definition given by Lord Justice Keene was that; any action which lifted the record sheet from the stylus could be construed as falling within the word ‘withdraw’ and the record sheet did not have to be totally removed from the tachograph to be withdrawn
I see, so you agree with my interpretation - that as long as it’s open and closed quickly, then there is no reason to suspect fiddling going on, so no action should be taken - Fairy Nuff 
It’s an offence and whether or not VOSA take action is I guess up-to there discretion, as far as I can see it appears that they are unlikely to take action if the tachograph is quickly opened and closed, but personally I won’t be testing the theory unless I really have to 
However you look at it the fact remains that to open the tachograph without authority before the end of the shift is an offence regardless of whether or not you write an excuse on the back of the chart, and people should be aware of that before deciding whether or not to chance it