Driver Shortage - What happened? T&D wants your views!

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Winseer:
once we’re out of the EU, and suddenly there are not enough truckers to go around, especially on the Tramping side of things. Perhaps the UK Trucker economy will end up like the North American version?

Ironically,like over there,you’ll still be left with the contradiction of a political climate which makes distance full load/trunking type work prohibitive.While the definition of ‘tramping’ in that case often means LTL short haul multi drop/collection work,involving loads of unpaid waiting/duty time,rarely getting back to base,to the point where the driver is then living in the truck weekdays and weekends.No surprise the latter isn’t the type of job which many drivers want at any wage.

As opposed to full load long haul runs with the quality time of a long weekend or even a week off between runs.The latter having been decimated by the shift to piggy back rail freight.It’s that which explains the shortage of drivers over there more than anything else with no one wanting LTL at any wage. :bulb:

62

Have a look over at www.reddit.com/r/trucking if you want to see what the US trucking industry is like. From what I can see, not much different to here. Wages are being held down, carriers are using every trick in the book to keep costs down. And just like here, the carriers are crying out for workers. At the assessment I previously mentioned at Bridgwater College, we were told to expect to come back after 2 years with £30k in our pockets… which I doubt, otherwise they would have to be flying drivers out from across the globe…

63

Like if you deport EE drivers all the problems of the trucking industry will be solved, the world is different then 2001. The mindset of companies/corporations is different from what I hear and read was in the past. Exploitation and profits are whats counts and no one care about the employee. Only in UK is this agency madness from the whole EU, where people are exploited to the max, 0hrs contract, every day different shift and out of work whenever they don’t need you, unpaid sick days, unpaid holidays…
Only in this country C/CE driving licence cost 3000 pounds, this is crazy, there is no point driving truck, when you can work simple job with no hassle for the same money and better conditions(regular days off, clean canteen and toilet, no adverse weather etc.)

64

Dolph:
Like if you deport EE drivers all the problems of the trucking industry will be solved, the world is different then 2001. The mindset of companies/corporations is different from what I hear and read was in the past. Exploitation and profits are whats counts and no one care about the employee. Only in UK is this agency madness from the whole EU, where people are exploited to the max, 0hrs contract, every day different shift and out of work whenever they don’t need you, unpaid sick days, unpaid holidays…
Only in this country C/CE driving licence cost 3000 pounds, this is crazy, there is no point driving truck, when you can work simple job with no hassle for the same money and better conditions(regular days off, clean canteen and toilet, no adverse weather etc.)

Firstly we won’t solve the issue of wages lagging behind prices by increasing the labour supply regardless of where the imported labour comes from.

As for any change in mindset we’ve always had the argument between those who ( rightly ) support protectionist policies to maximise wages v those who support free labour and trade markets to minimise them.Added to which is fluctuations between strong unions v weak unions as part of that.Hopefully we’re now entering a new period of protectionism at least starting in the US that will hopefully also filter over to here.

However the road transport industry also faces the secondary problem of actual political opposition to its activeties which applies virtually every where to a greater or lesser degree and it’s that which is arguably the biggest issue regards its attraction to new generations.IE who wants to enter an industry which is being deliberately handicapped and shrunk in terms of its profitability,potential growth and job opportunities by government policy.

As for the ‘simple job’.The fact is if someone wants to be a driver they won’t really want to do ‘something else’.In which case realistically the question firstly is can truck driving compete with other types of driving job.

Such as the question of what’s better a relatively easy shift on an out of town bus service or driving cars on car hire delivery collection for example etc etc.As opposed to up to 15 hours in the distribution/building trades/air freight etc etc sectors.Possibly involving as much,if not more,time loading/unloading and/or working as a warehouse/yard labourer as driving.With what driving there is being mostly in the heavy traffic/urban environment. :bulb:

65

I started driving HGV in 1972 and I know that I was exploited. I was working for a one man band and I worked round the clock moving house loads of furniture from London to the Irish Republic via Larne. I bent a few rules to get the job done.

After a year of that I changed my job but was still connected with lorries working for a hire company for three years. I resumed HGV in 1976 and stayed until 1978 when I concluded that I would never get rich driving a lorry and other than two five year periods of casual driving that is it.

I retired from my full-time occupation and live on my two pensions which give me more than if I had stayed on the road.

I hated one of my jobs but I stayed there the longest and it provided me with a decent pension.

I accept that I was fortunate in being able to change career and that many people have no option but to stick at it. Sadly I can see no improvement in the near future as there has only been a downward spiral over the past forty years.

66

I can’t think of another industry that the new recruit has to pay to join, pay to continue to be a member of, where they are regulated and monitored and yet compensated by carrot and stick mentality.
Any industry that attracts workers from poorer countries is suffering from weak wages, poor conditions and a lack of desire from indigenous workers. Social mobility has gone sideways instead of upward.

67

Honked:
I can’t think of another industry that the new recruit has to pay to join, pay to continue to be a member of, where they are regulated and monitored and yet compensated by carrot and stick mentality.

Nurses, doctors, dentists, chartered engineers, pretty much every single professional occupation as in proper professional requiring a degree and member of industry body definition of professional.

68

Conor:

Honked:
I can’t think of another industry that the new recruit has to pay to join, pay to continue to be a member of, where they are regulated and monitored and yet compensated by carrot and stick mentality.

Nurses, doctors, dentists, chartered engineers, pretty much every single professional occupation as in proper professional requiring a degree and member of industry body definition of professional.

Real professions such as those above take a bit longer than 2 x 5 days courses to be a fully licenced professional though.
Other similarities which arn’t there either, i wonder if they’ve dumbed the doctor’s test down by assessing them fixing a broken leg and if they pass that give them a brain surgeons certificate? just wondering like :wink:

69

Carryfast:

Winseer:
once we’re out of the EU, and suddenly there are not enough truckers to go around, especially on the Tramping side of things. Perhaps the UK Trucker economy will end up like the North American version?

Ironically,like over there,you’ll still be left with the contradiction of a political climate which makes distance full load/trunking type work prohibitive.While the definition of ‘tramping’ in that case often means LTL short haul multi drop/collection work,involving loads of unpaid waiting/duty time,rarely getting back to base,to the point where the driver is then living in the truck weekdays and weekends.No surprise the latter isn’t the type of job which many drivers want at any wage.

As opposed to full load long haul runs with the quality time of a long weekend or even a week off between runs.The latter having been decimated by the shift to piggy back rail freight.It’s that which explains the shortage of drivers over there more than anything else with no one wanting LTL at any wage. :bulb:

Except that the LTL jobs are the best driving jobs in America, all Union jobs with hourly pay, excellent benefits and a Teamster’s pension. Their line haul work is well paid too.

As for the rest of your uninformed tirade, only a very tiny proportion of trailers are shipped by rail, lots of sea containers to an inland railhead, but very few trailers.

There are lots of general freight loads that go coast to coast and north to south runs too, but not every load has to be shipped right across the country, it’s called commerce, that’s how it works you know, companies do not order stuff from the supplier farthest away just so supertruckers can put in big miles.

70

There has been some very relevant points well made by Winseer, Juddian and Caledoniandream amongst others already.

I would agree that low wages are probably the biggest disincentive to people wanting to do the job. This is typified by a current job ad for a tipper driver on Indeed as follows :

We are currently recruiting for HGV Class 2 Asphalt Tipper Drivers to drive 8 wheeler Asphalt Lorries working for TARMAC. Drivers must live locally to the ELSTOW (Bedfordshire) depot. Day/Night shifts on a 0-Hour contract. Experienced drivers preferred with full TARMAC qualification cards however, new drivers are also welcome. Training scheme will be provided for new drivers for four weeks (the first two weeks training are unpaid, the second two weeks will be paid). There are 28 days Holiday inc Bank Holidays.
Experienced drivers £110 per shift / New Drivers Scheme £100 per shift.

There are not many industries out there where it is considered reasonable to work for 2 weeks unpaid before relaxing with the security provided by your 0 hour contract, whilst you work out how to spend your 100 pounds gross probably about 65.00nett when you do get a shift.

Using the example above, if the “lucky” driver should happen to wander down a weight limited road in error or perhaps have the misfortune to have an axle overload, he or she can look forward to a hefty fine that will take a little while to pay off !
Even worse if they happen to have a road accident it can affect their own car insurance premium at best and at worst could even result in a prison sentence.

All in all, it may be better to stay in bed!!

71

Lucy- many of us are talking about the pay for drivers in this country, we can find average . national wages on gov. sites. Had anyone ever done a survey of UK drivers pay? :wink:

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

72

Juddian:
Years ago you either went hauling for a transport company, and enjoyed the relative freedoms that allowed, ie being more or less left to your own devices no one looking over you shoulder, with teh right lorry you could belt along at 70+ without a care in the world.
Or if you were lucky enough you got a start on a company carrying their own goods.
These would usually be a bit more regimental, sometimes the job wasn’t as well paid as you could earn on general but the work and hours you put in were nothing like, often there would be pensions and other benefits, on some jobs getting into the right own account or specialist meant you’d won the driver’s version of the pools.

The job was harder overall and required some nous, but the general haulage industry was more friendly then if that makes sense, so long as the job was done, you didn’t have any prangs, the customer was happy and you didn’t take the ■■■■ too much they more or less left you alone, those who ran you knew what they were doing, best days of lorry driving IMHO, satisfying too because it involved more than sitting behind a wheel and selecting D.

Fast forward, and the biggie is surveillance, i hate it, i don’t need spying on because i do a good job for my money and always have, if companies are stupid enough to recruit monkeys and pay them peanuts so be it, they reap what they sow, but lumping us all in with the monkeys has totally demoralised the better end of the driver pool, one size never has fitted all, it never will.
Job satisfaction too, dumbing the job down ever further and expecting time served competent staff to dumb down to an equivalent of brakes to slow gears to go one size fits all rubbish doesn’t give competent drivers satisfaction, it never will, it gets you cheap basically trained bums on seats and if thats what employers want there’s plenty of them out there flitting about from job to job leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

Money is important but not the be all and end all, but even the standard general haulage outfits are spying on their workforce constantly, some otherwise useless brat is likely to be watching for you to make the slightest error, or stop somewhere for an extra pee or somewhere where they sell a decent bacon buttie, and said brat can’t wait to log it as another misdemeanor, which will then be questioned at debrief :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: WTF is this debrief cobblers anyway, we didn’t abseil off the roof onto the balcony blow the windows in kill terrorists and rescue grateful hostages and receive notes with phone numbers from nubile admiring young ladies (if only), we delivered yet another lorry load of goods like we’ve been doing for nearly all of our lives, do get a grip people get over yourselves and stop with all this ■■■■■■■■.

There are still good jobs out there paying top money for reasonable workloads and up to a point if these high payers spy on you 24/7 and want to employ more chiefs than indians, well the extra pay offsets that, and these companies don’t suffer this driver shortage, you can put up with a lot of ■■■■■■■■ when your average hourly rate across the board is getting on for twice the norm.
Also there are still some smaller family type general haulage outfits about too, who whilst not being in a position to match the best for pay, still run things as old school as they can, spec proper lorries for their drivers and leave them to get on with their work without the spying, they don’t struggle to recruit cos they don’t have trouble retaining, as i said for many drivers money isn’t the be all and end all.

Companies who complain about driver shortage should look at why they find themselves in this position, it might not just be the money.

I think Ian has covered it all with his post above.

For me , it’s about the customer showing you a bit of respect. I am now getting totally fed up with getting out of bed at 2 am to be in the yard by 3, get checks done and load secured to be away for 4; then after a 3 hour drive the customer greets you with " you’ll have to ■■■■■■ wait"!

The last bit of my whinge is what gets to me. And, before the die hards come on and say get used to it driver you’re getting paid, then look what Ian said; it’s not just about the money.
Now if the same goods in goon said something along the lines of “oh, good morning drive, we are not ready for you just yet, were very sorry, but if you would like to use our brew facilities and make yourself comfortable, we’ll get to you ASAP”!

Respect…It really does go a long way.

73

Butcher:

Juddian:
Years ago you either went hauling for a transport company, and enjoyed the relative freedoms that allowed, ie being more or less left to your own devices no one looking over you shoulder, with teh right lorry you could belt along at 70+ without a care in the world.
Or if you were lucky enough you got a start on a company carrying their own goods.
These would usually be a bit more regimental, sometimes the job wasn’t as well paid as you could earn on general but the work and hours you put in were nothing like, often there would be pensions and other benefits, on some jobs getting into the right own account or specialist meant you’d won the driver’s version of the pools.

The job was harder overall and required some nous, but the general haulage industry was more friendly then if that makes sense, so long as the job was done, you didn’t have any prangs, the customer was happy and you didn’t take the ■■■■ too much they more or less left you alone, those who ran you knew what they were doing, best days of lorry driving IMHO, satisfying too because it involved more than sitting behind a wheel and selecting D.

Fast forward, and the biggie is surveillance, i hate it, i don’t need spying on because i do a good job for my money and always have, if companies are stupid enough to recruit monkeys and pay them peanuts so be it, they reap what they sow, but lumping us all in with the monkeys has totally demoralised the better end of the driver pool, one size never has fitted all, it never will.
Job satisfaction too, dumbing the job down ever further and expecting time served competent staff to dumb down to an equivalent of brakes to slow gears to go one size fits all rubbish doesn’t give competent drivers satisfaction, it never will, it gets you cheap basically trained bums on seats and if thats what employers want there’s plenty of them out there flitting about from job to job leaving a trail of destruction in their wake.

Money is important but not the be all and end all, but even the standard general haulage outfits are spying on their workforce constantly, some otherwise useless brat is likely to be watching for you to make the slightest error, or stop somewhere for an extra pee or somewhere where they sell a decent bacon buttie, and said brat can’t wait to log it as another misdemeanor, which will then be questioned at debrief :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: WTF is this debrief cobblers anyway, we didn’t abseil off the roof onto the balcony blow the windows in kill terrorists and rescue grateful hostages and receive notes with phone numbers from nubile admiring young ladies (if only), we delivered yet another lorry load of goods like we’ve been doing for nearly all of our lives, do get a grip people get over yourselves and stop with all this ■■■■■■■■.

There are still good jobs out there paying top money for reasonable workloads and up to a point if these high payers spy on you 24/7 and want to employ more chiefs than indians, well the extra pay offsets that, and these companies don’t suffer this driver shortage, you can put up with a lot of ■■■■■■■■ when your average hourly rate across the board is getting on for twice the norm.
Also there are still some smaller family type general haulage outfits about too, who whilst not being in a position to match the best for pay, still run things as old school as they can, spec proper lorries for their drivers and leave them to get on with their work without the spying, they don’t struggle to recruit cos they don’t have trouble retaining, as i said for many drivers money isn’t the be all and end all.

Companies who complain about driver shortage should look at why they find themselves in this position, it might not just be the money.

I think Ian has covered it all with his post above.

For me , it’s about the customer showing you a bit of respect. I am now getting totally fed up with getting out of bed at 2 am to be in the yard by 3, get checks done and load secured to be away for 4; then after a 3 hour drive the customer greets you with " you’ll have to [zb] wait"!

The last bit of my whinge is what gets to me. And, before the die hards come on and say get used to it driver you’re getting paid, then look what Ian said; it’s not just about the money.
Now if the same goods in goon said something along the lines of “oh, good morning drive, we are not ready for you just yet, were very sorry, but if you would like to use our brew facilities and make yourself comfortable, we’ll get to you ASAP”!

Respect…It really does go a long way.

Your last comment sadly applies to other situations, hospitals, doctors and places where you arrive on time for your appointment and have to wait. The receptionist hasn’t got the courtesy to tell you that the person you are seeing is running late.

74

roadcommander2:
We are currently recruiting for HGV Class 2 Asphalt Tipper Drivers to drive 8 wheeler Asphalt Lorries working for TARMAC. Drivers must live locally to the ELSTOW (Bedfordshire) depot. Day/Night shifts on a 0-Hour contract. Experienced drivers preferred with full TARMAC qualification cards however, new drivers are also welcome. Training scheme will be provided for new drivers for four weeks (the first two weeks training are unpaid, the second two weeks will be paid). There are 28 days Holiday inc Bank Holidays.
Experienced drivers £110 per shift / New Drivers Scheme £100 per shift.

There are not many industries out there where it is considered reasonable to work for 2 weeks unpaid before relaxing with the security provided by your 0 hour contract, whilst you work out how to spend your 100 pounds gross probably about 65.00nett when you do get a shift.

Is that an agency ad? Either way complete joke, and working for Lafarge “we love FORS/CLOCS/EPIC” Tarmac is the crowning fly on the turd.

75

Juddian has it well covered…I will say though, that having done many other occupations in this country and others, from getting really dirty, to being a senior manager and employing others…I have never in my life, been treated with such disrespect :exclamation:
I was just looking back through some thank you letters, cards, postcards this morning going back some 30 years, I was treated well and with respect all through my other jobs/occupations…Get in a lorry though and it is like you are back in the middle ages, in so many ways, it really is poor.

I only do a couple of days a week and have been thinking of giving that up, I don`t work in the summer, in fact I do approx. 74 days a year because I enjoy driving, but the way in which you are expected to go to a little slot in the wall, a little slot in the door etc. It is all degrading and I am sure a practice left over from yesteryear, I have no idea really, all I know is, that it is a degrading experience.

The interaction at many places is totally rudimentary and can leave one puzzled, because you are not given any communication or instruction…When you are, it is often with rudeness and you are treated as though you are carrying leprosy, not freight. I am banned from many places because I refuse to be treated like this, apparently I am a trouble maker :unamused:

The haulage industry has an awful long way to go, before it would be deemed acceptable to the people who are coming through the education system now and because of that, it shall continue to attract those that are not really capable of doing a professional job and so the circle continues.

Many other reasons, but the points above are my real gripes.

76

I can’t believe this debate is still going on.

It’s blindingly obvious why so many firms can’t get hold of enough drivers…they aren’t paying enough money and/or aren’t properly looking after the guys they have. Throw into the mix the barmy hours and you have no hope.

Why is nobody looking at the sheer number of good, qualified drivers who turn their back on the profession every year? Rectify that problem and everything else will sort itself out.

77

Butcher:
For me , it’s about the customer showing you a bit of respect. I am now getting totally fed up with getting out of bed at 2 am to be in the yard by 3, get checks done and load secured to be away for 4; then after a 3 hour drive the customer greets you with " you’ll have to [zb] wait"!

The last bit of my whinge is what gets to me. And, before the die hards come on and say get used to it driver you’re getting paid, then look what Ian said; it’s not just about the money.
Now if the same goods in goon said something along the lines of “oh, good morning drive, we are not ready for you just yet, were very sorry, but if you would like to use our brew facilities and make yourself comfortable, we’ll get to you ASAP”!

Respect…It really does go a long way.

Problem is that the result of not enough professional characters wanting to do the job is that any facilities / allowances made for drivers get ruined.

Put on brewing facilities and you get drivers leaving the place a mess and taking fistfuls of teabags away with them. Put out comfy seats and you get drivers putting their muddy boots all over them. Even toilets left in a sorry state. We aren’t even trusted to wait in our cabs whilst on a bay because various monkeys over the years can’t fathom the traffic light system. Unwashed, unkept impolite drivers presenting themselves on customers premises.

It’s all gone to the dogs. Is it any wonder we are kept like cattle at arms length in a little room with plastic school chairs. It’s been inflicted on all of us as a result of the many clowns doing the job because of the derisory pay & conditions.

78

A day of industrial action is called for!

Problem is the agencies would simply step up and crack on.

I think we are where we are and unfortunately that’s it. The better ones amongst us will retire and the old school skills just won’t get passed on.

" We’re all doomed"!!!

79

A national drivers strike is needed in order to highlight the responsibility of HGV drivers.

80

Honestscott76:
A national drivers strike is needed in order to highlight the responsibility of HGV drivers.

Cast your mind back to around March 2012…

Petrol stations including supermarket petrol are supplied by outside fuel suppliers, i.e. the supermarkets don’t have their own refineries - yet! so have no choice but to use third party suppliers. Now the tanker drivers were only at that point threatening industrial action, hadn’t even announced a strike, or when it would take place. Folks lined up at petrol stations and right down the road for hours to fill up - and they hadn’t even announced a strike! The mere threat was enough. Here’s a link if of interest to anyone theguardian.com/uk/2012/mar … ent-tories

Muckaway:

roadcommander2:
We are currently recruiting for HGV Class 2 Asphalt Tipper Drivers to drive 8 wheeler Asphalt Lorries working for TARMAC. Drivers must live locally to the ELSTOW (Bedfordshire) depot. Day/Night shifts on a 0-Hour contract. Experienced drivers preferred with full TARMAC qualification cards however, new drivers are also welcome. Training scheme will be provided for new drivers for four weeks (the first two weeks training are unpaid, the second two weeks will be paid). There are 28 days Holiday inc Bank Holidays.
Experienced drivers £110 per shift / New Drivers Scheme £100 per shift.

There are not many industries out there where it is considered reasonable to work for 2 weeks unpaid before relaxing with the security provided by your 0 hour contract, whilst you work out how to spend your 100 pounds gross probably about 65.00nett when you do get a shift.

Is that an agency ad? Either way complete joke, and working for Lafarge “we love FORS/CLOCS/EPIC” Tarmac is the crowning fly on the turd.

It’s a company. Indeed, they are offering Day / Night shifts on a zero hour contract, and require two weeks of your time free of charge for training. Money on offer is ‘Experienced drivers £110 per shift / New Drivers Scheme £100 per shift.’

Interestingly no mention of how long the shifts are… Intentional? I have purposefully not included the link as to not to advertise for these morons, but if the mods want it, no problem.

21 applications so far.

So where’s that driver shortage again…?