Lucy:
There are some really good points being made here about the differences between what operators - and employers associations, for that matter - seem to think is the problem, and what’s REALLY the problem.
I’ll hold my hands up here and say that when I packed up at the end of 2014 it was after many years of fighting to stay in the truck despite an MS diagnosis, because in my mind I needed to work as much as I could while I was still able. 8 years after that little bombshell was dropped on me I finally realised my disease was progressing faster thanks to the stress and hours, and my “work to the max” philosophy was backfiring, big time.
Fast forward just over two years and I’m making a living out of what was previously a hobby - a smaller living, but that’s my choice, I could chase down enough work to match my trampers wage if I wanted to, but I’d rather have the shorter hours. I’m fitter and healthier than I’ve ever been in my life because I have time to pursue my favourite sport, and I’m wondering why the hell it took me so long.
The best thing about my change of career is something I’m still trying to get used to. These days I get spoken to like the adult that I am. Says it all really, doesn’t it?
I enjoy my job, if we were paid a decent rate without everyone trying to see how much they could get out of us and left to do our job there would no moans on here, or very few. It’s just down to how we are treated by people squeezing us dry…the jobs not what it was and I only been hgv for 15 years…not that long ago
colin.f.whitetrans:
There is definitely no shortage of drivers but more to the point there is plenty of drivers who actually pay to put goodies like light bars on trucks they don’t own at their own expense and have the money deducted from their wages and for that reason these clowns will never get a pay rise but just keep the rest of us down who are trying to progress. Recently working for a local haulier found out its only *£8 an hour and like many companies around me the rate ain’t much different. There will never be a shortage because of this attitude from drivers who think its more important to have the most lights on the road rather than a decent wage
So how do you explain stagnant wages in the 99% of companies where the drivers don’t buy light bars?
Until drivers stop taking these jobs they will continue to exist. This will never happen.
To many operators with to many vehicles, this push the prices down, and for that reason driver wages become under pressure. The amount of empty running and operators undercutting each other will never improve the situation.
To many owner operators who “have” to run because the bank is knocking on their doors.
To many big operators who run for peanuts because they make their money with added value business like repackaging, storage or order picking.
Driver wages in a lesser way, but added values are lost in the industry, drivers have no job security anymore.
The amount of zero hour contracts and agency has ruined the business, people are fed up with picking at the start of their shift to pick up a ragged off, dirty and damaged vehicle.
Because of reason no 1, drivers don’t have their own truck anymore, drivers and truck have become tools, and are treated like that.
The companies who look after their driver, seem to have no problem to hold on to their drivers, just with old fashioned values.
Mostimes this are companies who transport their own product, or hauliers in transport of premium specialist goods, where the race to the bottom hasn’t started.
To keep and get decent drivers:
pay decent wages incl. decent incentives as pension plans, maybe health care
look after your people, don’t try to squeeze continue the last minute out of them.
listen to you staff and act accordingly where needed
decent road legal equipment.
decent planners who have a clue.
expenses clear rules and paid immediately
pay your drivers in time, every time
As a bonus your drivers will look as good after you, your customers, your equipment as you look after them. ( e.g. If you are crap, they will tread you crab)
Easy one
Poor money company’s paying the same money that I was on 12 years ago long hours the b/s thing called POA so they can say you only worked a 48hr working week yeah …
Very poor services spoken to and treated like ■■■■ …
planners company same Bull … they come out with …
Crap wages. Time and a half after 8hrs, time and a half on Saturday, double time on Sunday which used to be the norm have been replaced with flat rate and an extra quid or two an hour for a Saturday or Sunday. I earned more doing August bank holiday in 2001 than I did in 2016 because back then bank holidays were double or even triple time. In 2001 when my basic hourly rate was £6 I did a run on August bank holiday Monday for £18/hr, in 2016 when my basic hourly rate was £10/hr I was on £13/hr the Sunday rate for August bank holiday.
Ridiculous hours. When I started truck driving start times were typically 5.30-6am. Now the same places are wanting you in at 4am because the world would apparently end if you weren’t parked outside the gates of your first drop at 8am. We now have drivers in this country starting “day shifts” any time from midnight onwards which was unheard of. As a result of these asinine hours peoples health and home lives are suffering.
Over supply of cheap EE drivers kept wages low, conditions low and hours high. Now they are skulking off to greener pastures (exchange rate and fear of brexit) employers (agencies) are struggling to fill slots. I thought I was badly paid at £9.50 (day work) but after talking to a tramper from a well known company who is on £8.20, I now keep my head down and below the radar.
My son earns £7.89 at McD’s, 18 years old, free meals and excellent training. My wife is on 34K for office work, 37.5 hours, flexitime, full sick pay and very good pension package. I’m on just under 20K (40 hours) up at 4am start 5am expected to do 10 hours but can do 12+ easily.
The only time we are looked upon as professionals is when we do something wrong (we should know better), we are treated like animals at RDC’s with poor facilities, we lack any decent network of overnight parking and social facilities and the poor standard of all road users make the job frustrating.
I love what I do, I hate that I’m good at it as it makes it harder to leave. I miss the ‘Knights of the road’ label and despair of the future of driving.
When there is a true driver shortage new passes are snapped up immediately from the LGV training schools and the adverts on the jobsites will be mainly from actual employers not agencies
ROG:
When there is a true driver shortage new passes are snapped up immediately from the LGV training schools and the adverts on the jobsites will be mainly from actual employers not agencies
Bang on the money regarding new starters. I passed my test in 2001 and was in a Sainsbury’s Foden twelve hours after my test. I’ve never been unemployed since I passed, and only had time away from the wheel for holidays. I feel for the new starters these days, especially as my class 1 cost £600, and these people spend thousands
Am I cynical in thinking this thread will be a waste of time in the end, and just ignored by employers on the grounds that changing anything will cost them money?
I suspect they’ll listen to the points Lucy compiles, go for a posh lunch to think it over, and then look for something else that’s free. I know, let’s see if we can con the government into bringing over a load of African drivers after BREXIT…
This is a classic reflection of capitalist economics. There is only a driver shortage for the worst paid jobs, if there wasn’t then general wages would be depressed even more.
Exacerbating factors are the conditions: whole week away from home and frankly unsuitable facilities almost everywhere. The influx of cheaper labour from Europe and European firms operating unfettered here doesn’t help the domestic market.
There is, however, hope. Some firms are doing things differently and well. Think Ray White Transport and the fluency of their operation and it is possible to do well, albeit with the advantages of family buy in and, I’m sure, serious commitment. Some well run firms are different and look to be doing well. The “do it the same, race to the bottom” firms will get what they deserve and run short of drivers, cash or both.
It’s very unfortunate that some people are not in a position to turn down poor wages, as they have a family to support, otherwise I’m sure they would turn their backs on many Jobs offering inappropriate wages.
Lucy thanks for sharing your circumstances with us and I genuinely hope you are settled in your relatively new lifestyle and that importantly, it provides you with good health. My ex was diagnosed with MS so I am aware of it.
Hades3000:
It’s very unfortunate that some people are not in a position to turn down poor wages, as they have a family to support, otherwise I’m sure they would turn their backs on many Jobs offering inappropriate wages.
I don’t have children so don’t know if it is a consideration but are some of these people on the low paid/agency topping up with tax credits?
I work with people in retail who point blank refuse to do extra hours as they lose money off their tax credits!
Offering a weeks pay for half a weeks work was always a crazy idea!
Honestscott76:
Pure and simple, the pay doesn’t reflect the responsibility.
And let’s not forget the latest proposed scam to separate us from our meagre wages, and pay for pot hole filling if we don’t have a proper Truckers Sat-Nav. You really couldn’t make this crap up, and what other low paying job could you risk the broad spectrum of fines us driver do? You’re unlikely to sneeze whilst stacking beans, and possibly up facing an investigation with criminal charges or prison…
So tell me again why some people don’t want to do the job?
Has anyone got the gonads to compile a list of haulage companies/own account operators that are the cause of these ‘issues’? Publish the contracts of employment and wages and the benefits on offer? Will anyone ‘out’ them properly or get an elected representative to do so?
I thought not!
Nothing changes unless people really want it to.
Do something about it or leave it alone. They’ll go bust soon enough.
Captain Caveman 76:
One of the deciding reasons for me getting my lorry license was the introduction of the CPC. I guessed a lot of the old school wouldn’t want to do it and retire early, leaving a gap in the market place. I passed my test before it came into play and struggled for work. Thinking I’d made a big mistake I held on until the CPC came into force, lo and behold, I was having jobs thrown at me.
Now I’m not sure if it’s simply because I take more notice, but there seems to be an awful lot more Eastern Europeans driving now than when I first passed, and they’ve definately had an influence on this so called driver shortage. Our place pay decent wages and use decent kit for an easy job ( was told it was dead man shoes when I first got my agency placement), but I find we’re topping up our drivers with EE.
Same at our place in Haydock although Tesco buyout/takeover means the Green ■■■■■ will be lurking in the shadows somewhere ready to come in and wages/conditions will be slashed but I’ll be long gone. I’m seriously thinking of putting my license away and doing something else I’m 43 been class 1 for 22 years now and I’ve no intentions of driving for the Plague or going back to chasing my arse for crap money after a bobbys job.
Nothing lasts forever I suppose. [emoji24]
All my working life I’ve heard employers in many industries complaining they can’t get staff. They’ve been hooked on cheap migrant labour since the 50s’ so it’s no surprise that gaffers all over wanted to keep free movement of cheap labour. This industry has wasted no opportunity to abuse the situation. It’s no coincidence that I’m working for less now than 15 years ago. I’ve only got one lad but I made damned sure he didn’t become a bloody driver!
£8.25 for carrying cargo that talks (and blame YOU - the driver, for EVERYTHING)!!!
How do I know this?
I worked there about 15 years ago, And NOWT’S changed…! Oh, hang on… The wages look as if they went up all of a couple of quid an hour since I was there…
Roads and people are way worse than they are now though too… So would you take it…■■?
Arriva bus are owned by the German Railways. I wonder how the pay compares to the same job in Germany. Roll on Brexit.
Lucy:
Afternoon all, t’is I, Blaggy McBlagFace aka “that bird what keeps posting on here begging for info”…
Dead simple one this time, but I think you’ll like it…
It appears there’s a shortage of drivers. Whether that’s a shortage of “decent” drivers, experienced drivers, or drivers in general is another debate for another time, but talking to operators (and that’s something I do a lot of these days) they definitely can’t get the staff they want and need.
So… What happened? Why are people leaving the industry quicker than others are joining it? Where did it all go wrong in your view?
Enjoy!
Perhaps if operators took the trouble to browse through forums like this one they would soon learn what is wrong, however it is easier to bury their heads in the sand and blame everyone else for their woes.
Perhaps there is a comparison with the gulf between “drivers skilled and willing” just as there is in the Female ■■■■■■ ethic thing?
What I mean is that the demand for ■■■■■■ activity from males has always historically outstripped the supply of either straight women or gay blokes to fill that need OR we look at it from the other end, and say there “Is a shortage of gay males or females that are up for it”… Sounds kinda similar to the “Is there or isn’t there a driver shortage argument” - and maybe it’s gonna end up being along similar reason lines as well…
I think most of us agree that there definitely IS a shortage of drivers:
(1) Prepared to work 15 hour shifts.
(2) Prepared to work agency for less than a tenner per hour
(3) Prepared to keep renewing their licence every five years medically, and now DCPC-wise as well at their own expense
(4) Prepared to give up a full time job to go on agency.
There is NOT a shortage of drivers:
(1) Looking for a 40-hour per week full time job - no matter how low the hourly rate is.
(2) Prepared to work on agency for MORE than a tenner per hour basic rate
(3) Who are listed as “on the books” of an agency somewhere
(4) Prepared to drop everything to pick up a premium (£25ph+) shift.
£8.25 for carrying cargo that talks (and blame YOU - the driver, for EVERYTHING)!!!
How do I know this?
I worked there about 15 years ago, And NOWT’S changed…! Oh, hang on… The wages look as if they went up all of a couple of quid an hour since I was there…
Roads and people are way worse than they are now though too… So would you take it…■■?
Arriva bus are owned by the German Railways. I wonder how the pay compares to the same job in Germany. Roll on Brexit.
Remoaners would argue that if we do Brexit - "We’ll lose our rights to… " Well WHAT exactly? - "To stop a boss from sacking us for any old reason?
Nahh! I think I’d rather keep my boss happy and not get sacked, but get the meatier hourly rates that come once we’re out of the EU, and suddenly there are not enough truckers to go around, especially on the Tramping side of things. Perhaps the UK Trucker economy will end up like the North American version?
