stu675:
"Daily rest periodsYou must take a rest of 10 hours before the first duty and immediately after the last duty in a working week.
You must take a rest of at least 10 hours between 2 working days (or spreadovers) - this can be reduced to 8.5 hours up to 3 times a week.
That is under the PCV rules not for LGV
As far as I remember from my cpc course…
If you drive a vehicle under eu rules at any point in the week, you’re also under eu rules in a van as well if you drive a van that week. You can’t skip between the 2 sets of rules.
Tacho Mon and Tues, Luton van on Weds, still have to abide by tacho rules in the Luton.
I’m happy to be told that’s ■■■■, but I have a recollection of that from cpc…
trevorking1964:
As far as I remember from my cpc course…
If you drive a vehicle under eu rules at any point in the week, you’re also under eu rules in a van as well if you drive a van that week. You can’t skip between the 2 sets of rules.
Tacho Mon and Tues, Luton van on Weds, still have to abide by tacho rules in the Luton.I’m happy to be told that’s [zb], but I have a recollection of that from cpc…
That’s not how the UK government describe it.
"Driving under both EU and GB domestic rules
If you work partly under EU/AETR rules and partly under GB domestic rules during a day or a week you need to know the following:
driving under EU rules counts towards the driving and duty limits under GB domestic rules
on any days you drive under EU rules you must take EU daily rest periods, as well as a weekly rest period
you cannot count the time you spend driving under EU rules as an off-duty period under GB domestic rules
driving and other duty under GB domestic rules count as ‘attendance at work’, not as a break or rest period under EU rules
Driving limits
You must follow the GB domestic limit of a maximum of 10 hours driving a day. But at any time when you’re actually driving under the EU rules you must follow all the rules on EU driving limits.
Other duty limits
You must follow the GB domestic limit of a maximum of:
11 hours on duty if you drive a goods vehicle
16 hours on duty if you drive a passenger-carrying vehicle
Rest periods and breaks
You must follow the EU rules on rest periods and breaks on days and weeks when you drive under EU rules"
Shows how worthwhile the cpc is.
I’ve obviously misunderstood.
stu675:
You can’t just say that EU rules apply for the whole week.
"Many drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set, perhaps even on the same day.
When working partly under EU/ AETR rules and partly under GB domestic rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered (the EU rules take precedence over the GB domestic rules):
the time spent driving or on duty under EU/ AETR rules cannot count as a break or rest period under GB domestic rules
driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment) count as other work but not as a break or rest period under EU/ AETR rules
driving or other duty under EU/ AETR rules count towards the driving and duty limits under GB domestic rules"
and
“All drivers who drive in scope of the EU/AETR drivers’ hours rules need to comply with the sector specific working time rules, which have the same rest requirements as the EU drivers’ hours rules. Therefore, a driver who drives vehicles in scope of the GB rules on some days/weeks must always comply with EU rest requirements unless they are classed as an occasional mobile worker.”
3-mixed-eu-aetr-and-great-britain-domestic-driving
When driving under Domestic rules you must obey the Domestic rules, yes.
BUT, that does not mean you can ignore EU rules.
On mixed rules you must obey EU at all times.
If never doing EU work, only then you can ignore EU rules.
Franglais:
stu675:
You can’t just say that EU rules apply for the whole week."Many drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set, perhaps even on the same day.
When working partly under EU/ AETR rules and partly under GB domestic rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered (the EU rules take precedence over the GB domestic rules):
the time spent driving or on duty under EU/ AETR rules cannot count as a break or rest period under GB domestic rules
driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment) count as other work but not as a break or rest period under EU/ AETR rules
driving or other duty under EU/ AETR rules count towards the driving and duty limits under GB domestic rules"
and
“All drivers who drive in scope of the EU/AETR drivers’ hours rules need to comply with the sector specific working time rules, which have the same rest requirements as the EU drivers’ hours rules. Therefore, a driver who drives vehicles in scope of the GB rules on some days/weeks must always comply with EU rest requirements unless they are classed as an occasional mobile worker.”
3-mixed-eu-aetr-and-great-britain-domestic-drivingWhen driving under Domestic rules you must obey the Domestic rules, yes.
BUT, that does not mean you can ignore EU rules.
On mixed rules you must obey EU at all times.
If never doing EU work, only then you can ignore EU rules.
Have you got a point to make?
Is the red text your deluded ramblings? Or are you going to rely on them in court? Any support you want to provide to back them up?
trevorking1964:
Shows how worthwhile the cpc is.
I’ve obviously misunderstood.
This is why people should shop around for their DCPC, some places give you more…
I don’t want to infringe the advertising rules of the forum, but anyone who would like a free, illustrated in colour, 27-page professionally-made pdf explaining the drivers hours rules in nice simple terms, PM me and I’ll send you the link to the website of the training provider who offers this.
The only minor issue is that this version doesn’t include the August 2020 changes to the rules and still uses uses the pre-Brexit description of EU Driver’s Hours Regulations, rather than dropping the “EU/EC” designation as we are now supposed to do.
stu675:
Franglais:
stu675:
You can’t just say that EU rules apply for the whole week."Many drivers spend some of their time driving under one set of rules and some under another set, perhaps even on the same day.
When working partly under EU/ AETR rules and partly under GB domestic rules during a day or a week, the following points must be considered (the EU rules take precedence over the GB domestic rules):
the time spent driving or on duty under EU/ AETR rules cannot count as a break or rest period under GB domestic rules
driving and other duty under GB domestic rules (including non-driving work in another employment) count as other work but not as a break or rest period under EU/ AETR rules
driving or other duty under EU/ AETR rules count towards the driving and duty limits under GB domestic rules"
and
“All drivers who drive in scope of the EU/AETR drivers’ hours rules need to comply with the sector specific working time rules, which have the same rest requirements as the EU drivers’ hours rules. Therefore, a driver who drives vehicles in scope of the GB rules on some days/weeks must always comply with EU rest requirements unless they are classed as an occasional mobile worker.”
3-mixed-eu-aetr-and-great-britain-domestic-drivingWhen driving under Domestic rules you must obey the Domestic rules, yes.
BUT, that does not mean you can ignore EU rules.
On mixed rules you must obey EU at all times.
If never doing EU work, only then you can ignore EU rules.Have you got a point to make?
Is the red text your deluded ramblings? Or are you going to rely on them in court? Any support you want to provide to back them up?
The red highlights are contained within the quotation marks of the linked Gov UK site.
Any accusations of “deluded ramblings” should be addressed to .gov.uk.
stu675:
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You can’t just say that EU rules apply for the whole week.
That’s what the rules say. If the gov.uk info is too longwinded, try this snippet from Croner-i, who are an industry leading (though subscription based) advice site
As soon as work is undertaken under the EU Drivers’ Hours Regulations, then under these regulations, the driver is required to comply with all aspects of EU driving, breaks and rest periods for that day, the EU weekly rest regulations for that week and must also make a full and proper record of that working day in compliance with EU Regulation 165/2014.
Does that mean I remembered it right or wrong!?!?
trevorking1964:
Does that mean I remembered it right or wrong!?!?
Yes…
…probably you were remembering right or wrong 
Whatever you thought it was. It is not the easiest thing to understand because you need to follow two sets of rules. If you follow Eu rules you will fall foul of neither EU nor Domestic rules, I think.
Mon and Tues on Eu Rules,? Including an Eu daily rest at end of shift? All OK.
Weds on Domestic rules it is necessary to follow those Domestic rules regards driving and breaks. But it is also a duty day regards Eu rules..
Back on Eu rules Thu? The work you did on Weds is counted as duty or break and must be followed by an Eu Daily Rest. If you exceed the Eu rules for duty, (you may still legal Domestic) you are in the wrong. The driving of a vehicle not in Eu rules is duty. Other work is obviously duty too.
Thu follow Eu rules of course.
Fri the same.
At end of week the weekly driving, Eu rules, is for the 4 days only.
The Weds work is counted as duty only for Eu purposes.
If anyone cares to correct that, fine. I promise I won`t throw my toys out the pram.
As far as I can see the specific issue questioned was whether a day spent just driving a van would mean the daily duty limit of 11 hours would apply. Personally I believe that it would.
I believe the 11 hours is duty only. This would presumably mean that if you accumulated breaks these wouldn’t count. I don’t know how far that can be pushed. The summaries of the domestic rules generally don’t go that far in explaining the minutae. Reference to the original legislation would probably be required, which I believe goes back as far as the Transport Act 1968 (and subsequent amendments).
Effectively if driving under EU rules in the same week, this means that the start and finish times of the domestic driving day are relevant. If putting in a manual entry for the day it will most likely be analysed against RT(WTR), so making the breaks compatible with this would probably be advisable. Whether or not RT(WTR) or the normal WTR apply for the domestic day is a moot point.
Disclaimer: As before I am happy to be corrected, as this is just my understanding based on the limitations both in terms of time and expertise that I possess.
If you do one day covered by EU rules, the whole week is affected (must observe EU daily rest and weekly rest requirements).
TruckerGuy:
If you do one day covered by EU rules, the whole week is affected (must observe EU daily rest and weekly rest requirements).
That doesn’t mean that you can ignore the UK rules when you are driving outside scope of the EU rules.