“A vehicle would be considered as double-manned if, during any driving period, in between 2 daily or a daily and weekly rest period, the vehicle has 2 drivers on board - both of who are able to drive and have a personal tachograph card”
Rules state that you have to, pick up the second driver within 1 hour to be classed as double manned.
IF thats the case, is it legal , After a 3hr shift, to drive 2hrs, then come back with another driver (not driving, but same shift start), another 2hrs. with break in the middle. then back on there own in another truck.
“A vehicle would be considered as double-manned if, during any driving period, in between 2 daily or a daily and weekly rest period, the vehicle has 2 drivers on board - both of who are able to drive and have a personal tachograph card”
Rules state that you have to, pick up the second driver within 1 hour to be classed as double manned.
IF thats the case, is it legal , After a 3hr shift, to drive 2hrs, then come back with another driver (not driving, but same shift start), another 2hrs. with break in the middle. then back on there own in another truck.
The drivers will not be able to use double manning rules allowing different daily rest rules.
They can pick-up and drop-off other drivers as many times as they wish, but they must obey normal single manned hours.
Ed to add.
Travelling back to base (or anywhere else) in a cab counts as a break for first 45 minutes. It is never part of daily rest.
I know that wasn`t asked, but is “tried on” sometimes.
IF thats the case, is it legal , After a 3hr shift, to drive 2hrs, then come back with another driver (not driving, but same shift start), another 2hrs. with break in the middle. then back on there own in another truck.
Yes. Why not?
3hrs other work, 2 hrs drive,1 HR drive 45 min break, 1 hr drive. Seems fine to me.
No double manning rules needed.
IF thats the case, is it legal , After a 3hr shift, to drive 2hrs, then come back with another driver (not driving, but same shift start), another 2hrs. with break in the middle. then back on there own in another truck.
Yes. Why not?
3hrs other work, 2 hrs drive,1 HR drive 45 min break, 1 hr drive. Seems fine to me.
Yes, that might be legal.
But…
The thread title is “Double Manning Rules” so the OP is probably expecting a longer break in the day extending it beyond the normal 15hr shift__*__, so needing to take advantage of the double man rules.
I am making assumptions about what the OP means, rather than what he actually says.
You are assuming only a 45min break.
__*__Yes, I know this isn`t written, but it can be a useful form of shorthand.
crush99:
IF thats the case, is it legal , After a 3hr shift, to drive 2hrs, then come back with another driver (not driving, but same shift start), another 2hrs. with break in the middle. then back on there own in another truck.
You can do that but what you can’t do is extend beyond 15hr duty period as you both weren’t in the truck within an hour of starting your duty period so not classed as double manning. Now if the other driver got in your truck with you within an hour of them starting their shift they could but you can’t although I’ll be honest and say why the hell would anyone want to work even 15hrs a day, let alone more?
Franglais:
But…
The thread title is “Double Manning Rules” so the OP is probably expecting a longer break in the day extending it beyond the normal 15hr shift__*__, so needing to take advantage of the double man rules.
Yes, that’s my impression of what he’s thinking too.
If OP wants a more accurate answer he needs to give more detailed information about what is happening during this hypothetical shift.
What I would like to know is ,who is responsible for the second driver putting the card in?
If you pick a driver up on route and you ask him to put his card in,and he refuses on the basis of it’s not double manning rules,what are you supposed to do? You cant force him so you just keep driving,but what happens then,if you get stopped?
Sploom:
What I would like to know is ,who is responsible for the second driver putting the card in?
If you pick a driver up on route and you ask him to put his card in,and he refuses on the basis of it’s not double manning rules,what are you supposed to do? You cant force him so you just keep driving,but what happens then,if you get stopped?
YOU are responsible for YOUR card.
(Assuming neither driver is the O-Licence holder) You are each responsible for your own card.
I’ve given lifts to lorry drivers who were thumbing a lift. I’ve also picked drivers up from the same company as mine who’ve dropped their truck in at Peterborough to have work done. On no occasion have I asked them to put their card into slot 2 nor would I demand that they did. I’m not their mother and I don’t care enough about it to make it an issue.
Sploom:
What I would like to know is ,who is responsible for the second driver putting the card in?
If you pick a driver up on route and you ask him to put his card in,and he refuses on the basis of it’s not double manning rules,what are you supposed to do? You cant force him so you just keep driving,but what happens then,if you get stopped?
If you were supposed to pick this driver up, it would have to be within the first hour. After that you couldn’t use double manning rules. After that first hour, strictly speaking, if you later ran out of time, then this guy isn’t legally available to drive.
2x drivers 6am start.At 9am both sent to greendale, 2hrs away, one in a daf other in a actros, both with trailers. Daf driver trailer swaps, Actros driver leaves truck and trailer at greendale. Both have break at 11am, then actros driver get lift back to yard, with Daf driver, Back at yard Actros driver now gets another truck, both going different places, Different finish times, both under 13hrs.
Essentially your giving a driver a lift, or getting one, when he can drive, In shift time. when both drivers have already been on shift, including driving individual trucks for 2hrs.
SO you cant be classed, as double manning, ,after the “second driver within 1 hour to be classed as double manned” rule
If you dont put your card in, are you legal, and if you do, are you legal .
“A vehicle would be considered as double-manned if, during any driving period, in between 2 daily or a daily and weekly rest period, the vehicle has 2 drivers on board - both of who are able to drive and have a personal tachograph card”
I read that as a no, after a 1hr shift, even if, its just getting a lift, in shift time.
crush99:
2x drivers 6am start.At 9am both sent to greendale, 2hrs away, one in a daf other in a actros, both with trailers. Daf driver trailer swaps, Actros driver leaves truck and trailer at greendale. Both have break at 11am, then actros driver get lift back to yard, with Daf driver, Back at yard Actros driver now gets another truck, both going different places, Different finish times, both under 13hrs.
Essentially your giving a driver a lift, or getting one, when he can drive, In shift time. when both drivers have already been on shift, including driving individual trucks for 2hrs.
SO you cant be classed, as double manning, ,after the “second driver within 1 hour to be classed as double manned” rule
If you dont put your card in, are you legal, and if you do, are you legal .
“A vehicle would be considered as double-manned if, during any driving period, in between 2 daily or a daily and weekly rest period, the vehicle has 2 drivers on board - both of who are able to drive and have a personal tachograph card”
I read that as a no, after a 1hr shift, even if, its just getting a lift, in shift time.
Much clearer now.
Neither driver can use the rules that apply to double manning. If both finish within 13hrs then there should be no issues at all.
When travelling as passenger the 2nd man should put his card into slot 2. ""A ‘driver’ is anyone who drives a vehicle or is carried on the vehicle in order to be available for driving so where there are more than two drivers on board the vehicle, all drivers are required to keep a record of their activities. If there are more than two drivers, this must be done by making manual entries or records when there is not an available slot on the tachograph.“” gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … raph-rules
A tacho is available so should be used.
The first 45 min of his time in the passenger seat woukld normally count as break, but from your description, this again won`t be an issue.
As an aside…The driver isnt exactly "just getting a lift": (s)he is at work and could take over the wheel if needed. They arent getting a lift home or to the chippie.
Let`s leave it there!
“A vehicle would be considered as double-manned if, during any driving period, in between 2 daily or a daily and weekly rest period, the vehicle has 2 drivers on board - both of who are able to drive and have a personal tachograph card”
Rules state that you have to, pick up the second driver within 1 hour to be classed as double manned.
IF thats the case, is it legal , After a 3hr shift, to drive 2hrs, then come back with another driver (not driving, but same shift start), another 2hrs. with break in the middle. then back on there own in another truck.
As long as neither driver worked over 15 hours duty I don’t think it’s a problem. The problem would arise if you tried to utilise double man hours rules and work a 19 or 21 hour shift. Then both drivers have to be present after the first hour of the shift.
The second driver does not need to be the same person throughout the day. There just needs to be another driver throughout the day (including within an hour of starting).
The first driver can be under multi-manning rules while the other(s) may or may not be.
