I am an agency driver and firstly must point out my agency are very fair and considerate and in 14 years have given me no cause for complaint.
I have just been asked to explain by a company, via my agency, why I took 2 UNNECESSARY breaks double manned in an 18 hour shift.
I was sent all the printouts with breaks and POA highlighted.
Both breaks, worthy of the title, were taken by both crew, for a snack and toilet break at motorway services approximately half way out and half way back.
During the journey there is about 4-5 hours heavy handball unloading to venues several hundred yards from loading bays. So it is quite tiring and done overnight.
The return journey in heavy morning rush hour traffic can be particularly fatiguing.
Apparently the breaks inferred in the first 45 minutes of POA were fine but when we actually left the vehicle these were clearly stated to be not necessary and we were required to explain why they were taken and 100 minutes (first break actually 49 mins and the second 51 mins) were then deducted from pay.
Clearly they deem breaks not payable but is it reasonable to expect the crew to be in a moving vehicle or delivering at all times and to actually explain why 2 breaks were taken. ( the stores we deliver to actually lock their toilets as no one else can use them)
I find it displeasing to be queried about the necessity for taking these breaks. The passenger seat is hardly luxury accommodation for a break.
So I was wondering in future should stopping to use a toilet be a break, which will probably be less than 15 minutes, or POA and is this driver welfare unfriendly attitude typical?
Also if all breaks were covered under the first 45 minutes of POA is it fair to still deduct 45 minutes from pay when at all times you are in a moving vehicle or delivering?
In the morning for my private business, I book it as a break and I’m away for 15 to 20 minutes. I’m confident the pointy shoe brigade in the office don’t have the time deducted when they wander off, chat in the corridor about Chelsea losing 7-1, last nights Corrie or what they’re having for lunch.
In my opinion, if your double manning every shift, the truck should have a proper air suspended passenger seat.
I used to do a double man night shift out of Normanton, the only time ever deducted from both drivers was the standard 45 minutes.
Are your breaks paid or do the agency stop you 45 minutes from your wages for breaks? If it’s the latter then there’s no way should you be in a moving truck if your not getting paid. Just tell the agency that if they pay you for the breaks (even if you are sat in the passenger seat while it’s moving) then you’ll crack on
In the morning for my private business, I book it as a break and I’m away for 15 to 20 minutes. I’m confident the pointy shoe brigade in the office don’t have the time deducted when they wander off, chat in the corridor about Chelsea losing 7-1, last nights Corrie or what they’re having for lunch.
In my opinion, if your double manning every shift, the truck should have a proper air suspended passenger seat.
I used to do a double man night shift out of Normanton, the only time ever deducted from both drivers was the standard 45 minutes.
If they refuse to pay, don’t do the run again.
If the passenger seat were replaced with a commode…
D8ty:
I have just been asked to explain by a company, via my agency, why I took 2 UNNECESSARY breaks double manned in an 18 hour shift.
My response would be along the lines of “this is the 21st Century, not the 18th Century and it is not reasonable to expect someone to do 6+hrs without a break just because they were on PoA” followed by me never using PoA again other than for my own advantage.
So, say driver 1 drives for 3 hours in amongst also doing 3 hours other work. What is he supposed to do at six hours? The answer (according to this company) appears to be to swap cards so that his card will register POA, presumably while still working.
I would say for what you describe having your breaks together is entirely appropriate and I think any POA should be paid. The main reason for this is that you are both getting out of the vehicle and performing other work regularly. It is very difficult to keep track if your breaks purely from POA are adequate in these circumstances.
If you were to swap cards on the journey you could end up in a situation where the non-driver has to sit in the cab on arrival, which is highly likely to raise eyebrows.
Work for a supermarket.
They do not care how long it takes and their stores will happily have you paid to be sat on your arse for hours on end because they dont have room for a couple of cages.
The first time a company questions any breaks or stoppages ive taken is the last time I work for them.
If a delivery is late because ive stopped for twice for 10 minutes outwith official breaks then the issue isnt me, its whoever planned the shift and journey.
As an aside, for those who keep whinging about the WTD and drivers hours rules being too restrictive, have a think about how some of these companies would behave WITHOUT these rules if this is the sort of ■■■■ we get even when they are there
adam277:
Work for a supermarket.
They do not care how long it takes and their stores will happily have you paid to be sat on your arse for hours on end because they dont have room for a couple of cages.
I was dragged into the office once after a run. I’ve just got a quick question the office bod said. I chirped in quickly and said do you want to know why I was so long at the store.
No they said, they wanted to know why I’d booked a 1 hour break while waiting for the frozen and chilled guy who was in front of me.
I politely asked him if he wanted me to sit outside for an hour, go in and tip then pull out and sit for another 45 minutes.
Yes, was their answer. Great I thought, more £££ for doing nothing
The whole point of double manning is to get the max out of you if required.
When you stop get a coffee have a pee and crack on it ain’t difficult or swap at 3 hours not 4+
It’s not everyone’s cup of T and not a walk in the park if you don’t like it don’t do it.
And you’ve broken the golden rule of agency’s make sure what your getting paid for before you take it on and as your POA counts as breaks when double manning you don’t need to record any breaks so you’ve only yourself to blame, no breaks shown no deductions,
Next time you go there don’t do the same thing as before, but when you get back just tell them you’ve complied with their policy but unfortunately both of you ■■■■■■ the seat.
When up against, dopey office staff trying this on, ask, are you paid when you go for, toilet, ■■■,lunch, chat wif blondie from accounts, etc, normally gets forgotten…
It’s not uncommon to have a 45 deducted, I’d say at least half, maybe the majority of my jobs have been like that, it’s less common but some firms deduct a second if you take one or some pay off the card, so all recorded breaks deducted.
When multi Manning there’s no legal need to stop for breaks, so I’d want paying straight through if taking breaks on the move, if that’s what they’re doing then it’s going be a tough one to argue against especially if you’ve stopped for 2 decent breaks, I’d be ■■■■■■ off if you just stopped to get food, nip to the loo etc.
And if your issue is more about explaining rather than the deduction of pay, surely that’s so they can justify deducting the pay rather than saying you’re wrong for stopping?
Companies treating drivers like this, just another reason why the younger generation have no interest in the job and would rather go and sit behind a computer at a desk instead. Get treated better then.
stevieboy308:
It’s not uncommon to have a 45 deducted, I’d say at least half, maybe the majority of my jobs have been like that, it’s less common but some firms deduct a second if you take one or some pay off the card, so all recorded breaks deducted.
When multi Manning there’s no legal need to stop for breaks, so I’d want paying straight through if taking breaks on the move, if that’s what they’re doing then it’s going be a tough one to argue against especially if you’ve stopped for 2 decent breaks, I’d be ■■■■■■ off if you just stopped to get food, nip to the loo etc.
And if your issue is more about explaining rather than the deduction of pay, surely that’s so they can justify deducting the pay rather than saying you’re wrong for stopping?
They are clearly suggesting it is wrong for stopping to actually take a proper break other than merely just complying with tachograph law.
the query e mail included tracker print and clearly showed the stops in an m4 service areas (recorded as breaks so its not rocket science). We carry valuable stock both ways so need reputable stopping zones.
Drivers welfare, even double manned, must I would have thought allow for the need for a toilet or to stretch ageing limbs not merely avoiding actual breaks whilst still complying with tacho rules.
I posted this to see if such feudal master and serf attitudes were common. I am used to the automatic deduction of 45 mins for such duties and if it is policy to pay nothing for any breaks, fair enough.
However as other responders have pointed out In an 18 hour duty cycle (during storm dennis monsoon conditions) I find itsomewhat oppressive to be required to explain an obvious ACTUAL break to use a toilet and obtain and consume a warm snack. We are paid from the tacho record in any event.
To drive a lorry i would be paid from the minute i step into it to the minute i leave it. If the deducted me anything then id be out the door. Simples.
cgscott:
To drive a lorry i would be paid from the minute i step into it to the minute i leave it. If the deducted me anything then id be out the door. Simples.
