Franglais:
Mazzer2:
To the OP can you get your officers on the ground to all sing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to ferry movements. Everytime I’m stopped at the end of the check yet another way to use the ferry mode is explained to me, last summer in Crick I was told to do it as follows, stop in lane enter end country, move onto ferry press ferry mode, press ferry mode again on leaving ferry finish break and enter start country, all fine except if you are driving onto the ferry outside of your 15 hours by entering fery mode after you get onto the ferry it will throw up an infringement of driving outside your spread, press it before moving and there is no infringement.
Two weeks ago my friend was stopped an Liverpool docks and told the following way was correct, stop in lane enter end country press ferry mode, move onto ferry press ferry mode, press ferry mode as you leave the ferry, finish rest enter begin country.
Surely all your officers should be using one method only as it seems each checkpoint has it’s own method I have had several ways explained to me and saying “Well that’s the way the last DVSA officer told me to do it” cuts no ice and can you also ensure that police officers even know what a ferry break is, the amount of times a policeman has downloaded the card come back to the lorry and told me I have total disregard for drivers hours and am looking at going to court. Turns rather sheepish when a diary is produced and about 10 ferry movements are shown to him.
That sounds like a can of worms you`ve opened there!
I was getting lots of infringemnets flagged up, but now rarely get them.
Firstly about interrupting a daily rest after a 15?
Only a “regular daily rest” can be interrupted. So if “doing a 15” will need to have had a 3hr solid break during the day or else you are interrupting a reduced daily rest, which is a no-no.
The daily rest still needs to be completed 24hrs from the start of the shift. Even if it is split by ferry moves. That 24hr rule stands.
(Ignoring “15 spreads” for the moment)
If you start at 06hrs00 and arrive in the lanes at 18hrs30 and book off,for instance, you will not have 1hr movement available. There is 11hrs 30 until 06hrs00, that is 24hrs from shift start. To get your 11hrs rest in you can only have a total of 30mins interrption, be that in one or two slices.
To have your full 1 hr interruption available you need to limit to a 12hr spread. Start at 06hr00, book off in lanes at 18hrs00 and you`ll have time for 1hr of ferry movement plus your 1hrs daily rest before 06hrs00 the next day.
Ive got a Stoneridge Exact Duo Tacho. I arrive in lanes, book off including end country. When about to board hit ferry mode and 60mins will appear. (less if Ive gone over a 12hrs spread). That available time counts down from when the vehicle makes a move, not from the instant of hitting the button. On board, push button to get bed symbol back again, and daily rest continues.
To move off assuming daily rest not finished: enter ferry mode again. The countdown will be 60mins less the time taken to move on, (so might be 30mins or so left) again that doesnt countdown until the wheels turn. Off the boat, park until daily rest completed, and then book on in new country. Doing that Ive had no problems with analysis recently.
We run into Pompey a lot, and because of the Waterguard clearance time I wont normally board a ferry in France, until I know I can get off with my daily rest completed. It takes so long to debarque, Ill let one boat go, and catch a later one to keep it legal. Pain in the ■■■■, but better than a fine from the police or gendarme, be it weeks later.
That works for me, anyway.
(Touch wood 
)
Ed to add:
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
“Where the regular daily rest period is interrupted in this way, the total accumulated daily rest period must still be at least 11 hours or 12 hours if split.”
“Any regular daily rest period that is interrupted must be completed within the 24-hour period (if single manned)”
An example of how you drive onto a ferry outside of your 15 hours, start at 08.30 arrive at Holyhead at 20.30 to sail on the 02.40 to Dublin, boat loads at 01.30 any movement onto the ferry is outside of your 15 hour spread but perfectly within the rules of a ferry movement, if you press ferry mode prior to your movement at 01.30 no infringement press it after and it will bring up an infringement. Anyone who stops you and knows the job will realise what you have done and that no offence has been commited unfortunatly the UK police on seeing an infringement stop looking for the cause and proceed to punishmnet mode which is where keeping a diary is invaluable, but can lead to some heated discussions as the average traffic plod does not like being told that they are wrong. I now record all conversations whenever a policeman enters the cab shouldn’t have to but an easy way to prove your case.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
To the OP can you get your officers on the ground to all sing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to ferry movements. Everytime I’m stopped at the end of the check yet another way to use the ferry mode is explained to me, last summer in Crick I was told to do it as follows, stop in lane enter end country, move onto ferry press ferry mode, press ferry mode again on leaving ferry finish break and enter start country, all fine except if you are driving onto the ferry outside of your 15 hours by entering fery mode after you get onto the ferry it will throw up an infringement of driving outside your spread, press it before moving and there is no infringement.
Two weeks ago my friend was stopped an Liverpool docks and told the following way was correct, stop in lane enter end country press ferry mode, move onto ferry press ferry mode, press ferry mode as you leave the ferry, finish rest enter begin country.
Surely all your officers should be using one method only as it seems each checkpoint has it’s own method I have had several ways explained to me and saying “Well that’s the way the last DVSA officer told me to do it” cuts no ice and can you also ensure that police officers even know what a ferry break is, the amount of times a policeman has downloaded the card come back to the lorry and told me I have total disregard for drivers hours and am looking at going to court. Turns rather sheepish when a diary is produced and about 10 ferry movements are shown to him.
That sounds like a can of worms you`ve opened there!
I was getting lots of infringemnets flagged up, but now rarely get them.
Firstly about interrupting a daily rest after a 15?
Only a “regular daily rest” can be interrupted. So if “doing a 15” will need to have had a 3hr solid break during the day or else you are interrupting a reduced daily rest, which is a no-no.
The daily rest still needs to be completed 24hrs from the start of the shift. Even if it is split by ferry moves. That 24hr rule stands.
(Ignoring “15 spreads” for the moment)
If you start at 06hrs00 and arrive in the lanes at 18hrs30 and book off,for instance, you will not have 1hr movement available. There is 11hrs 30 until 06hrs00, that is 24hrs from shift start. To get your 11hrs rest in you can only have a total of 30mins interrption, be that in one or two slices.
To have your full 1 hr interruption available you need to limit to a 12hr spread. Start at 06hr00, book off in lanes at 18hrs00 and you`ll have time for 1hr of ferry movement plus you 11 hrs daily rest before 06hrs00 the next day.
Ive got a Stoneridge Exact Duo Tacho. I arrive in lanes, book off including end country. When about to board hit ferry mode and 60mins will appear. (less if Ive gone over a 12hrs spread). That available time counts down from when the vehicle makes a move, not from the instant of hitting the button. On board, push button to get bed symbol back again, and daily rest continues.
To move off assuming daily rest not finished: enter ferry mode again. The countdown will be 60mins less the time taken to move on, (so might be 30mins or so left) again that doesnt countdown until the wheels turn. Off the boat, park until daily rest completed, and then book on in new country. Doing that Ive had no problems with analysis recently.
We run into Pompey a lot, and because of the Waterguard clearance time I wont normally board a ferry in France, until I know I can get off with my daily rest completed. It takes so long to debarque, Ill let one boat go, and catch a later one to keep it legal. Pain in the ■■■■, but better than a fine from the police or gendarme, be it weeks later.
That works for me, anyway.
(Touch wood )
Ed to add:
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
“Where the regular daily rest period is interrupted in this way, the total accumulated daily rest period must still be at least 11 hours or 12 hours if split.”
“Any regular daily rest period that is interrupted must be completed within the 24-hour period (if single manned)”
Good post Franglais many dont understand that to use a ferry break to the full you can only have a 12 hour spread and its probably where most get caught out . thats actually a good question - is it Ok to reduce the one hours other work and driving down to say 15 minutes if you can get the 11 hour break in - ie a 12 hour 45 spread , 11 off and only 15 minutes to shunt on and off the boat ?
beefy4605:
Good post Franglais many dont understand that to use a ferry break to the full you can only have a 12 hour spread and its probably where most get caught out . thats actually a good question - is it Ok to reduce the one hours other work and driving down to say 15 minutes if you can get the 11 hour break in - ie a 12 hour 45 spread , 11 off and only 15 minutes to shunt on and off the boat ?
Ive hit the dock after about a 12hr20min day, and the ferry mode countdown only started from 40mins. No infringement showed up as I was from the lanes onto the deck in about ten minutes. A full boat and slow moving lanes can really screw up the best of plans though, cant they. Even trying to do it right we still need a wee bit of luck.
Franglais:
beefy4605:
Good post Franglais many dont understand that to use a ferry break to the full you can only have a 12 hour spread and its probably where most get caught out . thats actually a good question - is it Ok to reduce the one hours other work and driving down to say 15 minutes if you can get the 11 hour break in - ie a 12 hour 45 spread , 11 off and only 15 minutes to shunt on and off the boat ?
Ive hit the dock after about a 12hr20min day, and the ferry mode countdown only started from 40mins. No infringement showed up as I was from the lanes onto the deck in about ten minutes. A full boat and slow moving lanes can really screw up the best of plans though, cant they. Even trying to do it right we still need a wee bit of luck.
we mostly use P+O Larne - Cairnryan - 5 minutes to get on and at most 10 to get off and parked in the terminal . Youve got to be careful when your loading , I’ve seen guys at the back of the lanes shunt up to the front when loading starts only to be left sitting for another 20 minutes as cars and foot passengers get loaded - eats up your hour especially if you want to clear the port and find a layby down or up the the road.
beefy4605:
we mostly use P+O Larne - Cairnryan - 5 minutes to get on and at most 10 to get off and parked in the terminal . Youve got to be careful when your loading , I’ve seen guys at the back of the lanes shunt up to the front when loading starts only to be left sitting for another 20 minutes as cars and foot passengers get loaded - eats up your hour especially if you want to clear the port and find a layby down or up the the road.
Debarquing in Pompey can be over 3 hrs from deck to out gate…The boat will have reloaded and left before you get to BorderForce.
And no parking up until you have cleared. Absolute nightmare if you unaware.
Not much space in the lanes either, you can be shunted from one queue to the next by the marshals and waste time that way.
Going other direction, off boat and park normally within ten minutes.
Mod’s edit:
If you need asterisks to get a word past the auto censor, then that’s your clue that you’re trying to use a banned word.
There’s a clue in the name, the auto censor is err… hmmm… automatic, so please just type whatever you want, then leave it.
The ‘preview’ button is your friend!! dd.
Traffic Commissioner ends up in front of Trucknet Commissioner after 1st post
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
To the OP can you get your officers on the ground to all sing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to ferry movements. Everytime I’m stopped at the end of the check yet another way to use the ferry mode is explained to me, last summer in Crick I was told to do it as follows, stop in lane enter end country, move onto ferry press ferry mode, press ferry mode again on leaving ferry finish break and enter start country, all fine except if you are driving onto the ferry outside of your 15 hours by entering fery mode after you get onto the ferry it will throw up an infringement of driving outside your spread, press it before moving and there is no infringement.
Two weeks ago my friend was stopped an Liverpool docks and told the following way was correct, stop in lane enter end country press ferry mode, move onto ferry press ferry mode, press ferry mode as you leave the ferry, finish rest enter begin country.
Surely all your officers should be using one method only as it seems each checkpoint has it’s own method I have had several ways explained to me and saying “Well that’s the way the last DVSA officer told me to do it” cuts no ice and can you also ensure that police officers even know what a ferry break is, the amount of times a policeman has downloaded the card come back to the lorry and told me I have total disregard for drivers hours and am looking at going to court. Turns rather sheepish when a diary is produced and about 10 ferry movements are shown to him.
That sounds like a can of worms you`ve opened there!
I was getting lots of infringemnets flagged up, but now rarely get them.
Firstly about interrupting a daily rest after a 15?
Only a “regular daily rest” can be interrupted. So if “doing a 15” will need to have had a 3hr solid break during the day or else you are interrupting a reduced daily rest, which is a no-no.
The daily rest still needs to be completed 24hrs from the start of the shift. Even if it is split by ferry moves. That 24hr rule stands.
(Ignoring “15 spreads” for the moment)
If you start at 06hrs00 and arrive in the lanes at 18hrs30 and book off,for instance, you will not have 1hr movement available. There is 11hrs 30 until 06hrs00, that is 24hrs from shift start. To get your 11hrs rest in you can only have a total of 30mins interrption, be that in one or two slices.
To have your full 1 hr interruption available you need to limit to a 12hr spread. Start at 06hr00, book off in lanes at 18hrs00 and you`ll have time for 1hr of ferry movement plus your 1hrs daily rest before 06hrs00 the next day.
Ive got a Stoneridge Exact Duo Tacho. I arrive in lanes, book off including end country. When about to board hit ferry mode and 60mins will appear. (less if Ive gone over a 12hrs spread). That available time counts down from when the vehicle makes a move, not from the instant of hitting the button. On board, push button to get bed symbol back again, and daily rest continues.
To move off assuming daily rest not finished: enter ferry mode again. The countdown will be 60mins less the time taken to move on, (so might be 30mins or so left) again that doesnt countdown until the wheels turn. Off the boat, park until daily rest completed, and then book on in new country. Doing that Ive had no problems with analysis recently.
We run into Pompey a lot, and because of the Waterguard clearance time I wont normally board a ferry in France, until I know I can get off with my daily rest completed. It takes so long to debarque, Ill let one boat go, and catch a later one to keep it legal. Pain in the ■■■■, but better than a fine from the police or gendarme, be it weeks later.
That works for me, anyway.
(Touch wood )
Ed to add:
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … vers-hours
“Where the regular daily rest period is interrupted in this way, the total accumulated daily rest period must still be at least 11 hours or 12 hours if split.”
“Any regular daily rest period that is interrupted must be completed within the 24-hour period (if single manned)”
An example of how you drive onto a ferry outside of your 15 hours, start at 08.30 arrive at Holyhead at 20.30 to sail on the 02.40 to Dublin, boat loads at 01.30 any movement onto the ferry is outside of your 15 hour spread but perfectly within the rules of a ferry movement, if you press ferry mode prior to your movement at 01.30 no infringement press it after and it will bring up an infringement. Anyone who stops you and knows the job will realise what you have done and that no offence has been commited unfortunatly the UK police on seeing an infringement stop looking for the cause and proceed to punishmnet mode which is where keeping a diary is invaluable, but can lead to some heated discussions as the average traffic plod does not like being told that they are wrong. I now record all conversations whenever a policeman enters the cab shouldn’t have to but an easy way to prove your case.
Agree with all the above, couldn’t have put it better.
Not all the Gendarmes are aware of the rules regarding ferry movements, not having to deal with them on a daily basis.
Confused by what they see on a printout or download is an understatement
But I will add to the above, aswell as a diary with your ferry crossing details
Keep your boarding tickets and if on the BF crossings your cabin key.
pierrot 14:
Not all the Gendarmes are aware of the rules regarding ferry movements, not having to deal with them on a daily basis.
Confused by what they see on a printout or download is an understatement
But I will add to the above, aswell as a diary with your ferry crossing details
Keep your boarding tickets and if on the BF crossings your cabin key.
Yep agreed, good to keep evidence of why you made a movement.
And Im sure, (not recently, honest!) Ive made a somewhat “suspect” move that has flashed up on the gendarme computer, and pointing out that it was a ferry move has got me away free. Not necessarily a squeaky clean movement maybe…but…
One problem is that going over the allowed 1hr or whatever, is that it doesn`t show on the gendarme software as one minute over your allowed move, it shows as insufficient daily rest…by several hours! It does need a bit of explaining at the roadside.
Thanks for the response.
In a public forum you can only say so much of course.
As a general query though, is there a channel whereby you can pass info and advice “upstairs”? We can`t expect you to divulge any conversations, but can you confirm that such channels do exist?
Traffic Commissioners apply the law: we do not make it. But we do of course feed back to DfT our views on potential legislation, informed by our experience of how operators and drivers are coping with the rules and regulations in practice. So the answer to your question is: yes, there is a two-way dialogue between TCs and the DfT.
Traffic Commissioner:
Thanks for the response.
In a public forum you can only say so much of course.
As a general query though, is there a channel whereby you can pass info and advice “upstairs”? We can`t expect you to divulge any conversations, but can you confirm that such channels do exist?
Traffic Commissioners apply the law: we do not make it. But we do of course feed back to DfT our views on potential legislation, informed by our experience of how operators and drivers are coping with the rules and regulations in practice. So the answer to your question is: yes, there is a two-way dialogue between TCs and the DfT.
Thanks again.
I assume you will be talking to Humphrey Appleby? Although Jim Hacker will be making the decisions.
.
Hope you`re on double bubble for working Sundays!
To add even more confusion to the ferry movement saga in Ireland we are now allowed an extra movement giving us 3 shunts to allow for customs checks when coming off the ferry into Ireland, try not to use it myself although the RSA (Irish DVSA) say they have cleared it with Brussels I doubt to many outside of Brussels have got the memo.
Mazzer2:
To add even more confusion to the ferry movement saga in Ireland we are now allowed an extra movement giving us 3 shunts to allow for customs checks when coming off the ferry into Ireland, try not to use it myself although the RSA (Irish DVSA) say they have cleared it with Brussels I doubt to many outside of Brussels have got the memo.
Why is a 3rd move needed?
Shunt in boat.
Shunt off boat.
Finish rest, and out on road when all done?
Clearing customs is part of your work, not a part of having to get on/off a ferry which won’t wait for you.
What am I getting wrong?
.
And yeah, I can see those doing 3 moves will be doing lots of talking at any controls.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
To add even more confusion to the ferry movement saga in Ireland we are now allowed an extra movement giving us 3 shunts to allow for customs checks when coming off the ferry into Ireland, try not to use it myself although the RSA (Irish DVSA) say they have cleared it with Brussels I doubt to many outside of Brussels have got the memo.
Why is a 3rd move needed?
Shunt in boat.
Shunt off boat.
Finish rest, and out on road when all done?
Clearing customs is part of your work, not a part of having to get on/off a ferry which won’t wait for you.
What am I getting wrong?
.
And yeah, I can see those doing 3 moves will be doing lots of talking at any controls.
Shunt on the boat, shunt off the boat to customs waiting area outside of ferry terminal then get sent by customs to designated check area depending on what you have on ie fresh produce from the UK is checked in one area, transited the UK with fresh meat from Europe is a different check in a different area.
Now that it has settled down the checks in Ireland do in the main go smoothly and the system they have in place for informing you if you need to see customs is very clear, however they will ask you to go onto a bay for inspection then leave you on the bay for maybe an hour ask you to open the doors then pull off once the check has been done, All the area have sufficent space to park once your check has been done so the third shunt is usually just a case of pulling off a bay and parking up opposite.
If you leave the port area without clearing customs you can be fined 5,000 euros so heading out to the nearest services to finish your break then coming back in to clear customs isn’t an option and also 40km of unnecessary driving, maybe the authorities saw a problem listened to the drivers who highlighted the problem and came up with a workable solution 
How very unique.
Well…
If you know there is a fair chance you can’t get off the boat within your allowed one hour movement? Don’t get on the boat. Get a later one.
Job takes longer then maybe a proper solution would be pushed for instead of drivers sitting around waiting for a call onto a bay, at some unknown time, and playing havoc with their rest.
It’s not even being able to catch up on sleep if you’re waiting an inspection. That should be part of a normal working day, not interrupted daily rest.
Doesn’t look good to me.
Customs and similar can’t get their act together so it’s driver rest that get compromised? Don’t look good to me.
Franglais:
Well…
If you know there is a fair chance you can’t get off the boat within your allowed one hour movement? Don’t get on the boat. Get a later one.
Job takes longer then maybe a proper solution would be pushed for instead of drivers sitting around waiting for a call onto a bay, at some unknown time, and playing havoc with their rest.
It’s not even being able to catch up on sleep if you’re waiting an inspection. That should be part of a normal working day, not interrupted daily rest.
Doesn’t look good to me.
Customs and similar can’t get their act together so it’s driver rest that get compromised? Don’t look good to me.
Well I’m sure the RSA will be pleased to hear your input, the majority of drivers coming into Dublin are on a ferry movement due to the length of the crossing, catching another boat is not really a viable option, whether it’s ideal or not is another question but it is a way of solving a problem and in reality only affects a small number as most checks can done within the hour.
O/p…What are your views on a potential change in drivers hours regs, in terms of getting them in line with 21 Century working conditions, including reducing working days, reviewing minimum rest periods, therefore proving that road safety and H&S actually ARE priorities, .instead of them being fronted as a '‘Keeping up appearnces to be SEEN to be doing the right thing ‘’ excercise. 
as currently.
I know some on here who relish working 2 weeks hours in a week, and would work 20 hour days if they could in their endurance test of a driver’s life, and come out with crap like …’‘That’s the way it’s always been’, (Not true btw, when I started we were on a 12 and half hour spread over.)
And the… . ‘Nature of the job’ b/s,…so was putting infants down chimneys but that practice was soon sorted out eventually.
The ones who see through the job for what it really is after years of experience, feel ther should be changes in order, away from the EU rules that currently still stand… now that we are out of that cluster ■■■■ of an organisation.
Views/opinions?
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Well…
If you know there is a fair chance you can’t get off the boat within your allowed one hour movement? Don’t get on the boat. Get a later one.
Job takes longer then maybe a proper solution would be pushed for instead of drivers sitting around waiting for a call onto a bay, at some unknown time, and playing havoc with their rest.
It’s not even being able to catch up on sleep if you’re waiting an inspection. That should be part of a normal working day, not interrupted daily rest.
Doesn’t look good to me.
Customs and similar can’t get their act together so it’s driver rest that get compromised? Don’t look good to me.
Well I’m sure the RSA will be pleased to hear your input, the majority of drivers coming into Dublin are on a ferry movement due to the length of the crossing, catching another boat is not really a viable option, whether it’s ideal or not is another question but it is a way of solving a problem and in reality only affects a small number as most checks can done within the hour.
Catching a later boat does solve the problem. It may not be ideal for a quick delivery, but I don’t see why it’s not viable?
.
Customs checks take time, you know they do, so make allowance for it.
I still don’t see why drivers’ rest should be compromised.
.
I’ve lost a half day many a time. Been in the port in time for a boat, but knowing I’d likely be bolloxed by Customs just sit it out for hours until the next one.
.
Franglais:
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Well…
If you know there is a fair chance you can’t get off the boat within your allowed one hour movement? Don’t get on the boat. Get a later one.
Job takes longer then maybe a proper solution would be pushed for instead of drivers sitting around waiting for a call onto a bay, at some unknown time, and playing havoc with their rest.
It’s not even being able to catch up on sleep if you’re waiting an inspection. That should be part of a normal working day, not interrupted daily rest.
Doesn’t look good to me.
Customs and similar can’t get their act together so it’s driver rest that get compromised? Don’t look good to me.
Well I’m sure the RSA will be pleased to hear your input, the majority of drivers coming into Dublin are on a ferry movement due to the length of the crossing, catching another boat is not really a viable option, whether it’s ideal or not is another question but it is a way of solving a problem and in reality only affects a small number as most checks can done within the hour.
Catching a later boat does solve the problem. It may not be ideal for a quick delivery, but I don’t see why it’s not viable?
.
Customs checks take time, you know they do, so make allowance for it.
I still don’t see why drivers’ rest should be compromised.
.
I’ve lost a half day many a time. Been in the port in time for a boat, but knowing I’d likely be bolloxed by Customs just sit it out for hours until the next one.
.
Not going to get into a row with you over something that will never affect you but should you ever deliver to Ireland and you want to miss Saturday’s 02.40 and hopefully catch the 08.00 or possibly the 13.50 then good luck to you as you miss your tip and now spend the weekend waiting for Monday morning personally I’ll take a small lack of sleep and be home by lunchtime, the authorities have come up with this, it only affects a very small number of drivers it is not compulsory but can go some way to making a drivers life a bit easier if needed.
Traffic Commissioner:
In fact there are eight, and I really am one of them.
Your not ex Army by any chance?
Green Devil:
It’s a missed opportunity really
It would have been more appropriate if the OP had approached the admin with a view to starting a Q&A forum to discuss topics that drivers are unsure about with input from a serving TC.
That would make for interesting reading and improve standards. Not sure what it would do for fine revenue though 
You don’t hear much about Agency managers who’ve knowingly sent some hapless driver on their books to a job that would involve breaking the law doing…
Eg. Sending them to work a 7th shift in a row, or a shift that will take 18 hours to do, or finish at a time that won’t involve next day’s shift being cancelled, despite it being only 7 hours after the finish of the previous one…
OR the transport managers - that liase with said agency manager - to get things around the law, by ordering drivers to do things like “pop their cards on the derv pump”, and “book on only after their card goes in”, not back-entered to the start time 3-4 hours before when the driver turned up, and now won’t be paid for “'cos it ain’t on your card…”
