Hello everyone, I am hoping someone can clarify whether i would need an operators licence to run a HGV.
I am lookin at purchasing an ex local authority fire engine. The vehicle would be used to provide fire cover for private businesses. No goods would be carried on the vehicle.
Having read the list of exemptions this particular one stands out:
a vehicle fitted with a machine, appliance, apparatus or other contrivance which is a permanent or essentially permanent fixture, provided that the only goods carried on the vehicle are
a) water, fuel, accumulators and other equipment used for the purpose of propulsion or the running of the vehicle, loose tools and loose equipment;
Does anyone know if this exemption would likely be accepted? The fire engine is fitted with a fire pump in the back. It cannot be removed easily or without workshop facilities.
It would carry water in the tank for firefighting and a couple of tools specific to running the engine namely hoses etc.
I have contacted the local traffic commissioner for advice but have been given no specific help.
You seem to have seen the exemption correctly. Ask DVSA who will give a bland response, but if you’re looking to run it as a business, invest in legal advice and confirmation.
You seem correct in saying that t6yhe vehicle carries no goods so is probably exempt.
Also, listed as exempt,
emergency service vehicles (including those used by gas, electricity, water and telephone companies) Being a goods vehicle operator: Exemptions - GOV.UK
And what is a fire-engine, if not an emergency vehicle?
Hi Franglais, thanks for your reply. The problem is it wouldn’t be an emergency vehicle in the traditional sense. It would have no blue lights fitted and wouldnt be owned by a public sector fire service so I don’t think I could use that bit of criteria
Quick follow up. You’d have to revisit that exemption. The ‘water’ being carried would likely be seen as ‘goods’.
Think of a petrol tanker carrying 30k litres of petrol. it’s only purpose being to pump,petrol from the veh into tanks. They are a goods vehicle!!!
Water etc in the exemption is water etc to make the machine work. The earlier advice remains that need specialist legal,advice
But in the case of a fire engine the water is not being sold on it is necessary for the fire engine to fulfill it’s purpose of extinguishing flames etc. I would argue it is more like fuel in the operation of the device.
In the case of electric company vehicles you would be hard pushed to argue that cables or poles to support cables etc, are goods being transported for reward.
They are goods and are being transported, true, but that is not the purpose of the vehicle.
The water is the product, service or the business. If I was to use the same fire engine / tanker to move my fuel from my yard to another yard for me to use, the fuel would be goods and I’d still need to follow all the regs
The water pump is powered by the vehicle, not by the water.
It’s being used commercially carrying water, the same way the fuel tanker or even concrete mixer does.
Keep it on site then all is good, go out on the road as part of the commercial business and it all changes
May have some exemption when we look at the fine detail, but on reflection of the OP, none are immediately apparent
Good thinking.
My opinion is that isn’t necessary, but doing that would eliminate any possibility being accused of carrying any sort of “goods” I would think. The vehicle, on the road, would always be an empty pump on wheels.
Looks to me as if it would then not be a goods vehicle and hence need no O-Licence.
You are not ever moving any goods on the road, only the vehicle and ancillaries such as hoses which are a necessary part of the pump’s operation. Similar to a telescopic crane which will carry chains and strops.
Carrying water, it might still be exempt as an emergency vehicle.
I see those two reasons you won’t need an O-Licence, but as you have already said, getting it in writing from an expert is a good move.