We all look at the huge advances of in-cab luxury for the Lorry driver over the last 30 odd years. I remember when I got my first Night-heater in my Volvo F7 on Cannons of Milton, & it was one you could set the time for it to come on/off, amazing 
I was over the moon, no more trying to get dressed inside the sleeping-bag with frost on the inside of the windows 
. We now have Space-cabs/Toplines/Globetrotters etc that make the interior dimensions/space of the once āKing of the Roadā Volvo F88 or Scania 141 seem as cramped as my old Day-cab Dodge Commando with bench-seat on Minty Furniture, Oxford that I used to be out 4 sometimes 5 nights a week in, from Cornwall to Scotland! Leather this/that & the other with Microwave/Fridge etc etc, with more cupboards than Iāve got in my kitchen its like āGlampingā.
But certainly from the UK Haulage point of view, who has actually benefited the most from all these advances? The Boss? Certainly, he has the advantage of being able to maximise his drivers hours & get him as far up the road as possible, a lot on here have made that phone call:
āGuvnor, Iām not gona get tipped tonight, they close at 6 & I was delayed half an hour for my paperwork so 'm not gona make itā
āGreat, what time will you be there?ā
āHalf 6ish as long as no-one gets in my wayā
āOK, Iāll call you backā
Minutes later,
āItās OK, they are gona wait for you, they need that stuff for production in the morning, so get tipped & give me a call cos I got you a load not far away for the morning & they open early so you can have your break & get over there & load earlyā
Or
āOK, park outside their gates, they open at 5, call me when you are tippedā.
Either of these scenarios can apply to the next bit.
So you get tipped, you got half hour driving left, not enough to really get far but just enough to find somewhere to park. OK, where? You not been here before, where do you get a wash/shower/toilet etc? Where do you get something to eat cos you are starving? But itās all OK, cos you got a Sleeper cab, you got tipped & will be loaded early so the Boss has made his money with a little āBrucie Bonusā of getting a few hours in front which could even mean a extra load before the end of the week. But tonight, you will likely end up with a 'Mac-Ds McChicken Sandwich meal, with large Coke 
& getting into your bed grubby/grumpy, getting up in the night to pee-in-a-bottle, or stand on the cab step with the wind/rain blowing holding onto the door hoping for no splash back 
. Weāve all done it, but now Iām getting older I look at the sleeper cab & think āDid it make me even more of an out-cast from society?ā All that crap/junk food over the years canāt have done me any good either.
The scene Bewick is describing in his latest āDrivers mate in the 60sā topic is fascinating, & one that anybody on here with Diesel in his veins canāt get enough of, but it was of a better time, yes much harder life for the Driver/Mate there is no doubting that, & anyone would be a fool to suggest otherewise, but you had more time to do the job because it went at the speed it did, yes you got your toe down when you could, my Dad was a very calm man, took everything in his stride, but I could never remember seeing him stressed when I went with him for all those years. As Bewick states you had your regular stops/B&Bs etc, where you booked in advance, you could get away from the Lorry, have a decent meal & sleep in a proper bed, they werenāt all good obviously, but if you had your āLittle black bookā as a lot did you could be reasonably comfortable, & of course you met/spoke to/socialised with other drivers, which over the years I have seen killed off to the point where there is virtually no camaraderie at all between drivers 
.
Has the sleeper cab also contributed to the demise of the good old British Transport CafĆ©, because drivers now donāt park up for the night at them, they now park on dark/dingy Industrial Estates & do the in-cab-cooking thing, watching Top Gun on their in-cab DVD player, peeking out from behind their curtains occasionally to see who/what is about If the Sleeper-cab hadnāt come in, would the Road Haulage Industry been able to lobby for more Parking/Cafeās/Truckstops etc etc, in general better facilities for us drivers, so we could actually be members of the human-race Mon-Fri, & not like 2nd class citizens
Regards Chris
The job has changed out of all proportion, but i donāt think the sleeper cab did the damage, it was the removal of the gearstick and replacing it with a switch that heralded the end of the lorry driver.
The lorries now are more about bling than function, ever further dumbed down like the rest of the job taking away control from the driver, catering to image consultants so the lorry looks the part for the operator but this image crap has really taken hold with the people behind the wheel now, who might well have been Nike Trainer boy at school, and possibly morphed into iPhone boy as an older teen and now Audi or other bling car driver, so the lorry must look the part and have the right badge to be seen in tooā¦youāll have seen some of this on the main forum over discussions about the new generation Scania, much of the discussion centreing on its looks
This all flash no cash thing isnāt recent of course, since the 70ās when i started there have always been operators who bought flash motors and paid peanuts, yet had and still have no trouble getting staff, i canāt fathom it personally iāve always chased the money but each to their own i suppose.
Its always possible to take a pride in your work whatever you drive, it doesnāt have to be a brand new xxlratedsupertopspacelinewithabitmoreontop to have a pride in your job, though such things are important to some.
You can still use a sleeper and not become part of the machine, thereās always somewhere you can find to park off the beaten track, quiet spot within walking distance of a decent pub that does good food.
These things are linked, the self catering and crap wages, in that too many still think of night out pay as wages so hooked in to poorly paid work, struggling to make ends meet they drive up to the very last second then park alongside busy carriageways and before the turbo has stopped spinning the curtains are drawn and there they are locked in their own little prison for 8hr59mins59secs before they shove the card in again and off for another marathon.
My idea of a night out was the former, quiet spot, stroll to a nice pub, good bite to eat, couple of pints, then if no bugger to talk to get me book out and have a couple of hours read.
If near somewhere scenic and its warm then an elongated stroll was in order.
Even when i had a sleeper when the right opportunity presented itself, iād spend the night in a budget hotel or B&B, if for no other reason than to keep me relatively sane.
I always got away from the bloody lorry whenever possible.
There was some resistance to the sleeper cabbed workhorse when they began to appear in numbers, certainly the company my Father drove for and later myself preferred day cabs at the time, and digs, with the knowledge they would pocket more cash from claims than if they kipped in a cab most of the week knowing night out money would reduce and with Union backing bosses didnāt rock the boat. Then though digs were still plentiful and a driver could plan his week almost, knowing heād be at a certain place at a time where he had booked his bed, mostly knowing work mates would be at the same place too so the social side of life was something to look forward to. I believe once the younger drivers of the 70ās started to look to Continental work as an exciting and money making change to normal UK general haulage with the bigger sleeper cabbed foreign motors now making headway, the mindset began to change until even the stay in the UK distance drivers wanted the same machines as their Continental oppoās.
The older 50ās & 60ās time drivers still working then tended to have settled into local work and sleeping in their own beds at home leaving the āTear Arseāsā to charge around in their higher bhp, motorway cruising steeds, cutting the job up as they claimed! This also made it easier for owners to bring in the sleepers and set night out money to a level that they found more affordable and as Juddian stated control the drivers week the way they wanted to. Rather a simplified view I know as there were many other changes taking place once the 70ās got under way but I do think the introduction of the sleeper cab especially to UK based haulage made a difference to the way the job panned out. I know though that my Father who had loved his driving work since demob after WWII was only too glad to pack it in by the mid 70ās and even work in a factory, he never did get the chance to bed down in a sleeper cab during his working life, not until he later went on trips with me as a passenger. Franky.
Seems to be a worst case comparison of sleeper cab v best case day cab.While running out of hours is always going to be a lot worse without the flexibility of a sleeper even in the case of trunking and other day work let alone tramping.While instead of just giving guvnors the incentive to leave drivers stuck in an inconvenient place it then gives even more power to the other type of guvnor, who says get the job done and get back to the yard or youāre stuck in an even worse situation of out of hours and no convenient available accommodation.Added to which is the fact that sleeper cabs provide a much better roomy working environment than cramped day cabs even if you donāt need to use them.On that note I always preferred to have a decent sleeper cabbed wagon especially like the DAF 2800 or 95 etc even on trunking,than horrible cramped day cabs.So overall a great advance in which any possible downside was easily way outweighed by the upsides of the extra space and flexibility.
Also bearing in mind that the days of driverās digs werenāt exactly decent hotels and probably wouldnāt work without the flexibility of being able to āadjustā a log book to provide the time to get tipped or loaded and a decent way up the road,allowing for any unforeseen holdups,and to then get to the place where youāre booked to park up for the night.To the point where itās doubtful that tachographs would even be compatible with the old idea of using day cabs and digs. 
Hey,
A sleeper cab is a very welcome thing, BUT not for every night or weekends, have some ever seen an workers group or technicus to his work outsite his employers yard, with a caravan (mobile home) behind his car or van, have you.
So why has a truckdriver to live in it for as long he is a driver who does nights out or weekends.
the hole thing is the driver must be cheap as possible even cheaper as cheap.
In the '80ās lots had no nightheater or aircon, but it was already launched on the market in the '50ās begin '60ās
How is that possible, because drivers have no rights at all.
Sorry thatās my opinion after more as 35 years been on the road, that I Always have liked, and that were still good years.
I did mostly long-haul work. I considered it a life-style choice. It was far more convenient to live in the cab than it would have been to use digs or hostels. If you have more than one brain-cell and are reasonably well organized you can live comfortably in a cab and eat proper healthy food for weeks (months even) on end. Obviously, some meals are taken in Routiers etc. People pay a fortune to travel the world in a camper van to experience the same life style choice as a holiday option.
It often doesnāt suit family men with multiple domestic commitments so they have to make alternative lifestyle choices and if they are hell-bent on driving wagons there are still āhome by tea-timeā jobs if you look hard enough. Weāve had proper sleeper cabs for nearly fifty years now so the demise of driving as a popular career has simply got to be down to a different factor, many of which have already been listed above (skill-less lorries, heavy congestion, over-regulation, over-intrusiveness into working lives, total absence of adventure etc).
We forget sometimes that lorry drivers are not a one-size-fits-all commodity; they range from quiet domestic souls who possess all the skills to keep the country turning, to mis-fits who enjoy nothing more than to be adventuring for weeks on end in all sorts of dodgy countries living on their wits like trappers. Then there are all the shades in between along that continuum.
So no, I donāt think sleeper cabs have had anything to do with the demise, but I can guarantee they helped the job become more popular in the first place when all the international work kicked off and the unions had to back off calling for a ban on sleeping in the cab!
Cheers, Robert
ERF-NGC-European:
I did mostly long-haul work. I considered it a life-style choice. It was far more convenient to live in the cab than it would have been to use digs or hostels. If you have more than one brain-cell and are reasonably well organized you can live comfortably in a cab and eat proper healthy food for weeks (months even) on end. Obviously, some meals are taken in Routiers etc. People pay a fortune to travel the world in a camper van to experience the same life style choice as a holiday option.It often doesnāt suit family men with multiple domestic commitments so they have to make alternative lifestyle choices and if they are hell-bent on driving wagons there are still āhome by tea-timeā jobs if you look hard enough. Weāve had proper sleeper cabs for nearly fifty years now so the demise of driving as a popular career has simply got to be down to a different factor, many of which have already been listed above (skill-less lorries, heavy congestion, over-regulation, over-intrusiveness into working lives, total absence of adventure etc).
We forget sometimes that lorry drivers are not a one-size-fits-all commodity; they range from quiet domestic souls who possess all the skills to keep the country turning, to mis-fits who enjoy nothing more than to be adventuring for weeks on end in all sorts of dodgy countries living on their wits like trappers. Then there are all the shades in between along that continuum.
So no, I donāt think sleeper cabs have had anything to do with the demise, but I can guarantee they helped the job become more popular in the first place when all the international work kicked off and the unions had to back off calling for a ban on sleeping in the cab!
Cheers, Robert
A well-reasoned synopsis Robert. The only comment I would make is that you, as a long haul driver by choice, and by the nature of your career choice, probably spent most of your non-driving time with like-minded men. Even at its peak, British international drivers comprised only a small percentage of the total lorry driving workforce. Thousands of drivers with many years service never had nights out and never ventured more than 100 miles from their homes. So I completely agree with you, the sleeper cab hasnāt contributed adversely to making a driving career less attractive.
Iām still on a recruitment programme for drivers: - day drivers, afternoon drivers, night drivers, no problem. Trampers and weekend drivers, very difficult to recruit.
gingerfold:
ERF-NGC-European:
I did mostly long-haul work. I considered it a life-style choice. It was far more convenient to live in the cab than it would have been to use digs or hostels. If you have more than one brain-cell and are reasonably well organized you can live comfortably in a cab and eat proper healthy food for weeks (months even) on end. Obviously, some meals are taken in Routiers etc. People pay a fortune to travel the world in a camper van to experience the same life style choice as a holiday option.It often doesnāt suit family men with multiple domestic commitments so they have to make alternative lifestyle choices and if they are hell-bent on driving wagons there are still āhome by tea-timeā jobs if you look hard enough. Weāve had proper sleeper cabs for nearly fifty years now so the demise of driving as a popular career has simply got to be down to a different factor, many of which have already been listed above (skill-less lorries, heavy congestion, over-regulation, over-intrusiveness into working lives, total absence of adventure etc).
We forget sometimes that lorry drivers are not a one-size-fits-all commodity; they range from quiet domestic souls who possess all the skills to keep the country turning, to mis-fits who enjoy nothing more than to be adventuring for weeks on end in all sorts of dodgy countries living on their wits like trappers. Then there are all the shades in between along that continuum.
So no, I donāt think sleeper cabs have had anything to do with the demise, but I can guarantee they helped the job become more popular in the first place when all the international work kicked off and the unions had to back off calling for a ban on sleeping in the cab!
Cheers, Robert
A well-reasoned synopsis Robert. The only comment I would make is that you, as a long haul driver by choice, and by the nature of your career choice, probably spent most of your non-driving time with like-minded men. Even at its peak, British international drivers comprised only a small percentage of the total lorry driving workforce. Thousands of drivers with many years service never had nights out and never ventured more than 100 miles from their homes. So I completely agree with you, the sleeper cab hasnāt contributed adversely to making a driving career less attractive.
Iām still on a recruitment programme for drivers: - day drivers, afternoon drivers, night drivers, no problem. Trampers and weekend drivers, very difficult to recruit.
Thank you. And I agree with your ālike-minded menā bit. Robert 
It has to be remembered that manufacturers turning out day cab distance chassis for the UK were at the same time building sleeper versions for export, therefore they had already sussed that the home market in the early days preferred to stick with the day cab, the sort of owners then running large or small operations didnāt want to spend extra money on sleepers, night heaters etc just so their drivers would be comfortable during a week Tramping. Even when the 80ās started I know Gaffers that didnāt even like radios being fitted or drivers having a portable telly in the cab never mind a bed to sleep in. I also donāt believe sleepers contributed to the demise of HGV driving there were lots of other factors here but I would say a change came about when it was finally accepted in the UK that distance work required the use of vehicles where a proper nights sleep could be taken in the vehicle, also by then suitable accommodation was becoming rare and even many overnight cafĆ©s were disappearing.
The drink driving law had been in for many years but during the late 80ās into the 90ās early morning checks were being carried out on drivers leaving rest places with some failing breath tests, leading to a less active after work social life which meant either lying watching telly (the one you had to sneak in the cab so the gaffer didnāt notice) or sitting chatting in the cafĆ© until bedtime. One company I worked for the boss didnāt like you meeting up with your mates even if you were going to the same drop or pick up so would avoid letting you know too much and often you would believe you were on your Jack doing the trip. There was a lot of other negatives for me and why by the late 90ās I packed it in, ok while it lasted but the positives were vastly reducing, I may have just came into the game too late!
Franky.
+1 ā¦yeah i also worked for a boss that didnāt like us meeting up with āsameā company drivers ,seemed to think we were conspiring against him,he also had Habit off calling pubs near where we used to unload to see if we were there!!!
No, not the sleeper cab,ā¦ but the mobile phone.
Driving in Europe in the late '60ās and early '70ās, with a non-sleeper (Guy Big J, ERF )meant staying in hotels, particularly the les Routiers, clean, comfortable, excellent food.
An average day would begin around 7.00, a leisurely breakfast, coffee and croissants or perhaps ham and eggsā¦start driving around 7.30, stop for lunch at midday for an hour (or two ! )ā¦and stop again at 7.00 in the evening, book in the hotel, then another meal, chat to all other drivers, maybe a beer or two if you liked a drinkā¦then up the stairs to the heated (in the winter) bedroom and clean bed, and start a similar routine the following dayā¦
Then came the sleeper cabā¦ (for me it was an F88) . For a time Iād have a night in the cab, and one in a hotel, then 2 nights cab, then 3 nightsā¦you get the picture
This was driven by the company, not because I wanted to, I was happy in the 1 x cab and 1 x hotel, but then the āwell youāve got a sleeper cab, so you can start earlier and work laterā ā¦so the 7.30 start became 6.30, then 6.00, then 5.30 etc etcā¦and after the evening meal you could ājust do a couple of more hoursā ā¦You lost the relaxed time of spending it with other drivers, the comfy clean bed, not rushing the meals, the breakfast first thing in the morning. I watched it change the way we worked, and I watched it change the people, no more time to chat, rushing around to get every minute into the day working, rushing to catch the ferry, all good for the company, but not so for the driverā¦
For me the sleeper cab ended an era, the last of the, dare I say itā¦ " the good old days"ā¦but Iām talking about driving in Europe, where hotels were cheap, clean, and comfortable, and drivers were respected, not so in the UK. Sleepers must have seemed like home from home compared to some of the crappy, filthy ādigsā that were available during the '60ās -'70ās, and yes I did stay in a fewā¦so I guess itās depending where you worked, as to how you saw them, the best thing that happened, or the worse thingā¦
Hi all
I guess the difference in your reasons for sleeper cabs companies and owner drivers was economically driven here in Auss it was more of a luxury when they first appeared as an optional extra from the manufacturers and as Leyland and Foden were the main european manufacturers at the time the American units were looked on with envy by most drivers.
My first truck with a sleeper was a Leyland Crusader which had the sleeper manufactured by a local body builder what a luxury.
My own first experience to auss truck driving was an introduction to sleeping in a swag ,while enjoyable with the multitude of stars to gaze upon possibility of getting a visit from one of our 72 different species of venomous wrigglys didnāt always lead to a good nights rest,in the cattle industry rolling the swag out in an empty crate was a no no because of the possibility of a tick bite which can have just as dire consequences as a snake bite only takes a lot longer if not detected in time so the sleeper cab became a necessity here and after 40 years of living in sleeper cabs I have to say it didnāt do me any harm sure I had nights in my own bed at home and before the arrival of temperature control in the sleepers it was normal to sometimes get a motel room if it was at a price that was a affordable.Roadhouses started to have a few a/c rooms available but as they were often that far apart it wasnāt always possible to make the distance in opening hours.
You in europe had extremes of cold temperatures and the middle eastern drivers had the summer heat like us and the monsoonal wet seasons where the humidity would sap the strength out of you when just laying in bed, get stranded without some survival knowledge cold can kill just as heat can.
Just a comment to show how sometimes our jobs of delivering freight to customers was different with the countries we operated in,your opinions appear to think the sleeper didnāt do much for the driver and here I believe it was the opposite.
Cheers Dig
The only thing i find is the fact that when the unions allowed sleepers to be fittedā¦they never stressed how big, long, facilities and never seemed to stretch the chassis to accomodate them, and to be honest i dont think they ever have looked after the driversā¦they allowed the chassis to be stretched to allow another axle ( twin steer or bogie ) then they allowed trailers to be stretched, to get extra pallets on the backā¦all of this in the bosses favourā¦so i wonder when they are going to stretch the chassis, to fit a nice big cabin on the backā¦its not that difficultā¦but would be nice in this day an age to allow a driver a lot more comfort.IFR we were allowed to have a double bed, fridge, toilet shower, microwave, tv etc etcā¦there would be no need to fine drivers for sleeping in a layby, as he would have the facilitiesā¦no need to fine drivers/companies when a driver takes a 45 hour breakā¦as he already has the facilitiesā¦they could build facilities to empty the toilet/waste water ( at a charge ) and a gauge on the side to show its not full and overflowing onto the carriageway and a fine if not emptied. I believe its time to give drivers a decent place to live and relax when not workingā¦but i doubt it will happen whilst i`m alive.
Fergie47:
Driving in Europe in the late '60ās and early '70ās, with a non-sleeper (Guy Big J, ERF )meant staying in hotels, particularly the les Routiers, clean, comfortable, excellent food.An average day would begin around 7.00, a leisurely breakfast, coffee and croissants or perhaps ham and eggsā¦start driving around 7.30, stop for lunch at midday for an hour (or two ! )ā¦and stop again at 7.00 in the evening, book in the hotel, then another meal, chat to all other drivers, maybe a beer or two if you liked a drinkā¦then up the stairs to the heated (in the winter) bedroom and clean bed, and start a similar routine the following dayā¦
Then came the sleeper cabā¦ (for me it was an F88) . For a time Iād have a night in the cab, and one in a hotel, then 2 nights cab, then 3 nightsā¦you get the picture
This was driven by the company, not because I wanted to, I was happy in the 1 x cab and 1 x hotel, but then the āwell youāve got a sleeper cab, so you can start earlier and work laterā ā¦so the 7.30 start became 6.30, then 6.00, then 5.30 etc etcā¦and after the evening meal you could ājust do a couple of more hoursā ā¦You lost the relaxed time of spending it with other drivers, the comfy clean bed, not rushing the meals, the breakfast first thing in the morning. I watched it change the way we worked, and I watched it change the people, no more time to chat, rushing around to get every minute into the day working, rushing to catch the ferry, all good for the company, but not so for the driverā¦
For me the sleeper cab ended an era, the last of the, dare I say itā¦ " the good old days"ā¦but Iām talking about driving in Europe, where hotels were cheap, clean, and comfortable, and drivers were respected, not so in the UK. Sleepers must have seemed like home from home compared to some of the crappy, filthy ādigsā that were available during the '60ās -'70ās, and yes I did stay in a fewā¦so I guess itās depending where you worked, as to how you saw them, the best thing that happened, or the worse thingā¦
You were one of the lucky ones Fergie as when poor old Mappo started out in his driving career he had to find a suitable bit of grass to erect his tent, then cook a meal on his primus stove ten wash up and in the morning had to dismantle it all and pack it up to move on so you my friend had it cushty, cheers JD.
Too many rules and regulations are a big contribution to the demise of the job . Timed deliveries and jobsworths are another , last Friday I had around 8 deliveries and collections around Manchester and the outskirts , I had 2 collections on the back of the trailer and was given an extra collection of 3 pallets . When I got to the collection point the young lad in this well known transport firm said we only load through the back so ring your boss , I said cant you load through the side you have outside access , no was his answer and after ten minutes of moaning he eventually agreed to move the 4 pallets forward and put his 3 behind . FFS why ā ā ā ā ?? if it isnt in their little rule book they cant think out of the box ,no common sense what so ever and thats the biggest problem with the job
ramone:
Too many rules and regulations are a big contribution to the demise of the job . Timed deliveries and jobsworths are another , last Friday I had around 8 deliveries and collections around Manchester and the outskirts , I had 2 collections on the back of the trailer and was given an extra collection of 3 pallets . When I got to the collection point the young lad in this well known transport firm said we only load through the back so ring your boss , I said cant you load through the side you have outside access , no was his answer and after ten minutes of moaning he eventually agreed to move the 4 pallets forward and put his 3 behind . FFS why ā ā ā ā ?? if it isnt in their little rule book they cant think out of the box ,no common sense what so ever and thats the biggest problem with the job
You were lucky he spoke english 
Harvey
Just a couple of sleepersThe first chap I spoke about sleepers to was Trink from Wm Rowe of Elford.He used to park his ācompany carā at his home in Handsacrer and as many of you know I reckon he would rather sleep in his cab with a board over the bonnet.As a comment what a pity Rowes went out of business.
ramone:
Too many rules and regulations are a big contribution to the demise of the job . Timed deliveries and jobsworths are another , last Friday I had around 8 deliveries and collections around Manchester and the outskirts , I had 2 collections on the back of the trailer and was given an extra collection of 3 pallets . When I got to the collection point the young lad in this well known transport firm said we only load through the back so ring your boss , I said cant you load through the side you have outside access , no was his answer and after ten minutes of moaning he eventually agreed to move the 4 pallets forward and put his 3 behind . FFS why ā ā ā ā ?? if it isnt in their little rule book they cant think out of the box ,no common sense what so ever and thats the biggest problem with the job
āCompany policyā mate !! ā ā ā ā ā ā ā like that are on such a āshort leadā they have to ask to go to the bog ! and if they donāt get permission in time they will stand and ā ā ā ā themselves ! Company policy mate now he will have to finish his shift with a wet arse 
Glad I donāt have to sit of that FLT seat
