Dick Snows Astran Pictures

Colonel:
The picture may well be on Tahir, but it would not have been on the Doha trip as they are in different direections, as you well know. I remember speaking to JW in Mamas at Spielfeld one evening and he mentioned then that they were going to be on film, but from what I have heard most of it was fabricated to make it sound as if it was something out of the ordinary when there had many of us quietly going up and down the road to these destinations for some time.

A week to Istanbul tells me that they were all thinking it was a holiday.

How long to Istanbul in them days then? allowing for the complete drum removal in Belgium?
Tin hat ready

Hi Suedehead, I have no interest in getting into an argument over a trivial subject such as this, but I will say that I used to get to Baghdad or Tehran in one week, so Istanbul in that time means that no one was taking the job seriously. This was the main reason that so many companies went bust in the 70’s in an attempt to make a living on the vast Middle East Market.

All I seem to read about on this forum is about legends and when we see the photographs they are all running in convoy (We all know how slow they are) spending a lot of time drinking beer and genrally having a good time.

I doubt a company with the resources that Astran had at their disposal would have needed a drum replacement in Belgium. Even if they did there is no reason for the rest of the convoy not to forge ahead.

I have no idea if you did the job in those days or not, but look at it this way. Most journies through Germany were by using the train, which in the early days ran from Koln to Ludwigsburg as there was not a large enough allocation of road permits to go round all those who needed to transit Germany (And we were supposed to have won the war). The short transit permits that were available using Hamburg or Bremerhaven through the old DDR needed a little bit more effort to do the same times, but we all worked to do it.

Transit time through Austria via the Ho Chi min trail from Salzburgh to Spielfeld was approx six hours, 14 hours to transit Yugoslavia and another six for Bulgaria, leaving four hours down to Istanbul. Does not take much working out that even four days to Istanbul would not have been the norm.

Leaving Bristol on a Sunday night for a morning boat I would be in Belgrade tuesday night and Istanbul the following night. This job paid the most money for the outward leg and it was imperative that every effort was made to earn this money in the shortest possible time.

Hi John, as a matter of interest how many hours a day did you usually drive and sleep and did you ever have any problems getting Yugo transit permits after October ?.
Regards Steve.

This photo looks like Bill Arnold, he used to be on for Simons International, always talked about going to Pakistan… I worked with him when he was on for John Smith out of Rainham, we used to do Portugal. Always moaning !! He got tailended by some bloke in a Shogun or similar in Belgium one trip coming home loaded with Swiss clocks from Yeah you guessed it, Switzerland.
The bloke hit him so hard up the arse that it caused Bill to jack-knife, the tilt burst open and all the clocks went all over the place. He always wore a red sweatshirt !!

Mr 141:

The guy in the blue checkered shirt in the photo below this one is Tony Sommerson from Denmark and I seem to recall he and his father used to pull for Astran sometime during the late seventies/early eighties.

Mr 141:

I can’t tell without looking at her face but the girl from the back look’s like Diesel Sally from Holloway Road.

GS that could possibly be “Diplomatic” Bill Arnold, but as he’s smiling it’s doubtful - unless it’s a grimace :laughing:

Mushroomman, like all the drivers in those early days sleep was taken when it was needed, bearing in mind that borders had to be negotiated. We all ran pretty dodgy but then with log books it was pretty easy to keep yourself looking reasonablely legal and if there was a problem, then a small donation usually solved the problem.

Permits as you well know were always in short supply but I was very fortunate that I used to backload french TOE trailers and because of this, each backload earned me a French permit. As I never did France these accumulated in the IRFO and periodically they would write to me asking if I was prepared to exchange some of these for an EEC book. So in a relatively short space of time I was one of the few operators who could do the job without the need for forgeries as I had 4 EEC books and two ECMT books. As you well know any usage of the train in Germany earned a road permit.

So your question about Yugoslav permits running out never applied to me and I am quite sure that it would not have stopped anyone getting to the Middle East as one would have used Nadlac from Hungary straight into Romania and then over Stara Zagora down to Haskovo in Bulgaria, missing out Yugo completely.

There were times when certain permits became scarce but all one did was to alter the route down to accommodate these stupid problems that should never have arisen in the first place.

Of course when I first started then I had to make use of the forgeries that were widely available. Just think that in those early days only 2500 permits were issued for a whole year for journeys to Italy, yet this number of trucks will have gone through the Blanc by the end of February, so everyone was bribing Italian officials not to stamp them and those in the know had a Cluses stamp so that they could stamp their own paperwork and avoid the hassle of calling into Cluses for control.

When you also consider that we all had belly tanks and filled up with red diesel in the UK and T form to the Yugoslave border, where it was discharged and the fuel then used. Some even had the ability to use the fuel before then with complicated fuel ■■■■■ that fooled the customs.

Thanks for that John, I have to admire you for your planning ability, it sounded like a military operation. I must admit that my record from Manchester to Istanbul was five days in the early eighties as we were trying to get there and back for Christmas. However, when we got there we decided to give that Christmas a miss and hopfully see all the following Christmases. It worked out O.K. in the end as the boss told us to try and get back to Budapest and he flew us back from there, we arrived home at 9 p.m. on Christmas Eve.
Regards Steve.

Hi Steve, my first trip to Tehran was a complete disaster. I did this for a guy whose name I cannot tremember called John (The guy who got all the mercenaries for Angola), who had an office in Camberley and had about 80 trailers all parked up at the airfield beside Membury Services on the M4 with loads from all the well known freight forwarders of the time, namely Davies Turner, Schenkers, Kuehne and Nagel etc. I was as green as grass and did not realise that the price 0f £2200 was not going to be enough to make a profit, even if the trip went well.

It didn’t, for the simple reason that I was running on paperwork provided by him and the TIR Carnet had expired and the date had been altered with a John Bull printing outfit. As you well know paperwork has to be perfect when one arrives at Kapicule. I got tuned out and I spent 10n days at the border trying to solve the problem, even going down to Istanbul by bus to the Turk Ticaret Odesi, to no avail, so I left my truck at Kapic and flew home to get completely new paperwork all in my own name.

For the TIR Carnet I had to join the FTA (Freight Transport Association) International Branch. My bank provided the guarantee. but this solved the problem of dodgy paperwork and completing a Carnet was something that I took great care in doing. I also joined the AA so that I would be able to get the Carnet de Passage for the truck and the trailer, once again my bank providing the guarantee.

I wrote a letter to the IRFO and they were kind enough to put me right in respect of permits for this kind of journey and that I would have to use the train initially.

So to be brief I decided that no one would ever do paperwork for me again. I flew back to my truck at Kapic and with the right paperwork and a letter from the Turkish Embassy in London I was able to proceed. By now of course the total job is a disaster and looking as though my foray into owner driver works was going to be short, but after unloading in Shiraz, Southern Iran. I stayed there for six months running internally from Tehran, empty to Banda Abbass loading grain and to Korramshah loading steel back to Tehran. Weighed off and immediately paid in Rials, which as I am sure you know were easily changeable into any hard currency that one wished.

Those six months of internal work set me up financially well enough to carry on, which I did. Three years and two winters was enough for me so I managed to get work direct from a customer to Baghdad, which was a large contract and necessitated me buying more trucks and also loading subcontractors.

I don’t know if you remember the company with the bright yellow DAF’s fitted with fridges and axminster carpet based in Avonmouth and owned by an Iranian by the name of Hussein Jafari, called H.J.Atlas Management Ltd. He had 20 trucks, but unfortunately suffered with the quality of drivers that he employed. He had an F89 road train and I loaded him out of Manchester with the rigid and he then stuck a 40 foot behind it loaded again by me and I cannot believe that he got that combination down to Baghdad. They did not last long through poor drivers who were only intent on having a good time, siting in the Londra frightened to cross the bridge, which had replaced the necessity of getting into Asia by using the ferry from Eminonou to Hyderpasha ,with the efes bottles piling up like a pyramid against the wall. Londra to me was a shower and something to eat and then push on. It was so easy to be waylaid by many of the great characters that one met on this run.

My memory is fading now but I could talk on this subject for hours as little things jog my memory. Drivers I met in those days were people like, Johnny Williams, ■■■■ Snow, Johnny Holland, Geof Ruggins (Astran), Some wonderful characters driving for Cantrells Marauders, Colin Taylor especially. Great guy but you could not employ him, too slow and too expensive.

Youngs of Paisley, another Scottish company that made an effort when the Middle East expanded, but I counted fifteen of their trucks abandoned between the Bazargan and Tehran, only one was a genuine breakdown.

So I think I have made it pretty obvious that there were no legends at all in those days, just guys who did the job properly and those who considered it an adventure.

Mr 141:

This chap looks like Dirty Lyle out of ‘Convoy’ :smiley:

Hi GS

Were there 2 Tony Somersons because the one u say in pic wearing the check shirt is not the one I know Tony lives not far from me in Medway runs a pub/Resturant on the river had a Daff on his last days with Astran we used to call him fingers du to the lack of fingers on his left hand will check with John Bruce if he still runs the pub we are suposed to be getting together soon the last suvivers in the early days before we all croke I think there is now only five alive so sad :cry: :cry: :cry:

Roger(Rita)Haywood

Colonel:
… I did this for a guy whose name I cannot tremember called John (The guy who got all the mercenaries for Angola)…

His name was John Banks. Don’T suppose you bumped into a couple of guys by the names of Chris Dempster and Dave Tomkins??

Colonel:
Hi Suedehead, I have no interest in getting into an argument over a trivial subject such as this,

Wasnt intended as “a dig” . . genuinley interested as to how long it took ?
Personally, i cant understand why somebody would want to remove all the drums on the trailer,check the linings when the problem was rectified with “a bit of adjustment”(as in d Doha dvd)
As you say , there must have been many a driver quietly getting on with it,probably in a day cab Atki.

sinbin31:
Hi GS

Were there 2 Tony Somersons because the one u say in pic wearing the check shirt is not the one I know Tony lives not far from me in Medway runs a pub/Resturant on the river had a Daff on his last days with Astran we used to call him fingers du to the lack of fingers on his left hand will check with John Bruce if he still runs the pub we are suposed to be getting together soon the last suvivers in the early days before we all croke I think there is now only five alive so sad :cry: :cry: :cry:

Roger(Rita)Haywood

Hi Roger
This Tony came from Denmark and married a Kiwi girl in about 1990ish, and used to have a two tone blue 141 and then a two tone blue 142, and as far as I know he is still in Denmark, he had a lovely farm house there. He did alot of Turkey when I knew him in the late eighties and early nineties.
GS

Hi Suedehead. To me the Middle East was a business and not one to be taken lightly. As an owner driver everything was down to me and on reflection perhaps I should have kept it at that, but my customer insisted that I expanded to cover his work. With that expansion came the headache of finding good drivers. Anyone can drive a truck, but not every driver can do the job. It takes a special breed to be able to self sufficient, run on your own and see to any problems that arise either with the truck or customs etc.

The job can only stand a certain amount of time or one is into loss territory and I have had some real doughnuts as drivers at times. You know the ones, talk a good job but cannot hack it when the going gets a little tough. When the snow is down in eastern Turkey, that really sorts the men out from the boys. I could recount many stories about that particular run to Tehran, but it is now history and who is really interested anyway.

The job was not difficult if you knew what you were doing, kept away from the places where one get waylaid with the drinking crowd. In 1976 I used to pay £1200 cash in hand for a round trip Baghdad, which was only 18 days work, not forgetting that they also were living out of my running money.

Suedehead:
In the destination Doha dvd, he salvaged the truck from, i think, Damascus(spelling) but was talking about the 110 on a previous journey when it went 45 degrees over on Tahir.That pic was deffo taken on Tahir.

Without watching the DVD again,the motor he recovered,(down the tapline?,was it Dammam or Kuwait?)was a 140 or 141 road train,which he stated was the one he recovered on Tahir.

Colonel:
but from what I have heard most of it was fabricated to make it sound as if it was something out of the ordinary some time.

It has been mentioned quite a few times in previous posts that the trip was made to illustrate many of the problems that drivers CAN have while doing the job.Some of us never had so many problems in years.Therefore,stripping hubs down in Belgium,skiing in Austria,getting bogged down while negotiating roadworks down the tapline?.Definitely too much for one trip.i can’t think of even a tin pot firm that could only get into Belgium before stripping the hubs down.
To the average viewer,WOW how exciting.To Middle East drivers with even a little experience,YAWN.

bestbooties:

Suedehead:
In the destination Doha dvd, he salvaged the truck from, i think, Damascus(spelling) but was talking about the 110 on a previous journey when it went 45 degrees over on Tahir.That pic was deffo taken on Tahir.

Without watching the DVD again,the motor he recovered,(down the tapline?,was it Dammam or Kuwait?)was a 140 or 141 road train,which he stated was the one he recovered on Tahir.

I thought it was at the “Mirrors” because one of them turned left for Kuwait ! It could have been Dammam though, because you can turn left there for Kuwait too. Cant ya!!
If coming from Syria/Jordan via Haditha, I always took the Hafar al Batin turn off to Ruqi border.

Colonel:
I could recount many stories about that particular run to Tehran, but it is now history and who is really interested anyway.

Hi John, I think that like myself you will find lots of people on here who are really Interested in your stories, so please keep sending them in.
I thought that when you started posting on here, that you had a great dislike for ALL ex Middle East drivers and I feel that I should speak up for many of the older guys who are no longer with us.
I am certain that all the drivers that you met were not always on the sauce or selling their batteries or spare wheels to any Turk who came along.
There were many good drivers who stuck at the job for many years and as you said there were the ■■■■■’s and you sound as though you employed one or two of them.
There were also the Chancer’s, who thought that they could do the job and couldn’t, the One Hit Wonders who did one trip, had a bad time and never went again but talked about it for the rest of their lives. There were also the Dumpers ( I never did like those fellow’s ) who would leave the truck and the loads 1,000’s of miles from the U.K. or even 40 miles from the U.K. and then there were The Last Trippers.
The Last Trippers were the ones you would usually meet on a mountain in Rumania, or in the middle of nowhere in the middle of January, with a pair of overalls on, covered in grease and oil with a fire blazing away underneath the diesel tanks. The sight of another British truck stopping to see if they could lend a hand was enough to boost the drivers spirits and somewhere in the conversation the driver who had had more than a few problems in the last couple of days would say " This is my last trip ".
It was surprising how many times I heard some body say those words only to bump into them a month, six months or even a year later.
Those were the kind of lads that carried on year after year some times whinging to other drivers who knew exactly how they felt and having a decent meal, a shower and a couple of beer in my opinion ( most times ) never did anybody any harm. It was people like this who I enjoyed running with for several years and who I remember as being great characters.
Obviously, I like many other people on here remember those days while wearing my rose coloured glasses. As anybody who did the job will know, it wasn’t always spent lying on a beach in Greece. Almost as much time was spent sat at borders and waiting for loads ( through no fault of the drivers ) as was actual driving but these are some of the things that nobody often mentions. I am pleased and proud to have been part of it and I know that I will probably never meet people like those guys again.
I always find it interesting, reading how other people did the job and your stories John are certainly interesting.
You may say “ but now it’s history ”, well I think some history books are fascinating so please share your fascinating experiences with us all.
Regards Steve.