DGSA exam question

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Probably one for Diesel Dave this, but anyone else care to chip in the more the merrier.

I have just recently re-sat my DGSA exams, all went well, however there was one question I didn’t know the answer to and still can’t find it. It is now giving me sleepless nights that I can’t work it out.
I have written the gist of the question below.

A product UN1222 Isopropyl Nitrate, is not approved to be carried in tanks. (checks table A and of course there is no code in column 12). If the company could persuade the government that is was safe to do so, under what reference of ADR would it be allowed. You had to quote the reference for your one mark.

The only thing I could think of (but I am pretty sure it’s not right), is the exemption that allows approved use of vehicles by the government for emergency transport intended to save human lives or protect the environment…

I know it won’t make any difference to my pass or fail, especially one mark, but I hate it when I can’t find an answer to something.

Ta in advance
R2R

2

Road2ruin:
Probably one for Diesel Dave this, but anyone else care to chip in the more the merrier.

I
I have written the gist of the question below.

A product UN1222 Isopropyl Nitrate, is not approved to be carried in tanks. (checks table A and of course there is no code in column 12). If the company could persuade the government that is was safe to do so, under what reference of ADR would it be allowed. You had to quote the reference for your one mark.

Ta in advance
R2R

Hi, I’d wait for the word from Diesel dave (I only DGSA as part of my duties). I think the answer is the temporary derogation ADR 2019 1.5.1

Regards

3

Thanks for that. Upon reading it I think you are probably right. It certainly seems more plausible than my attempt.
As I said it won’t make or break my pass, just annoy me, and I think you might have got it.

Thanks again.
R2R

4

No problem, hope you pass and get a good nights sleep now.

Regards

5

Did you get the one about the tank codes? off the top of my head it was PxBH(M) , the first four letters were fine, but I could not for the life of me find the (M) anywhere - still, it’s only one mark.

6

Zac_A:
Did you get the one about the tank codes? off the top of my head it was PxBH(M) , the first four letters were fine, but I could not for the life of me find the (M) anywhere - still, it’s only one mark.

As Dave has said many times. ADR is recognised throughout the World and South Africa say this about the above tank code.

UNDERSTANDING THE TANK CODE

SANS 1518:2004 introduced the concept of the four-character tank code for the first time. Each product listed in section 3 of ADR (a section referenced by SANS 1518) has an applicable tank code shown against it. For example, if we look at anhydrous ammonia, UN1005, the code is PxBH(M) (the ‘(M)’ is not really a fifth character, it is merely an extension of the fourth, being the ‘H’). This is interpreted as follows:

P A pressure vessel for liquefied or dissolved gasses.

x This is the calculation pressure for the tank. In the case of UN1005, the ‘x’ will be replaced by a ‘26’ for a tank with thermal insulation, or a ‘29’ for a tank without thermal insulation. The ‘26’ and ‘29’ is the pressure in bar.

B A tank for bottom-filling or discharge with three closures on the filling/discharge line.

H A hermetically closed tank. The ‘(M)’ means that the product may be carried in a UN Multiple Element Gas Container (UN MEGC). (An LPG tanker, by comparison, requires an ‘N’ as the fourth character and thus has to be fitted with pressure relief that is not hermetically closed.)

The term ‘hermetically closed’ means that:

The tank has no pressure or vacuum relief; or
The tank has no pressure relief but has vacuum relief; or
If pressure relief is fitted to the tank, it must consist of a pressure relief valve preceded by a bursting disc.

The tank code must be displayed on the tank manufacturer’s plate.

7

Thanks for the extra reference, but as I was using ADR 2019 the SANS reference would not have been helpful. However, I have now found what would have been the correct reference: ADR 3.2.1

8

Wheel Nut:
As Dave has said many times. ADR is recognised throughout the World and South Africa say this about the above tank code.

Hi, Just to be pedantic (and actually that helps with ADR), ADR as of the 2019 edition applies to the following countries:

Albania, Andorra, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia,Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Montenegro, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, the Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, San-Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine and United Kingdom. Not worldwide.

Regards

Edit: Mispelled “pedantic” D’OH!

9

Zac_A:
Thanks for the extra reference, but as I was using ADR 2019 the SANS reference would not have been helpful. However, I have now found what would have been the correct reference: ADR 3.2.1

Beat me to it. I agree. In the explanations of the columns for table A. “The indication of a “(M)” after the tank code means that the substance can also be carried in battery-vehicles or MEGCs”.

Regards

10

DGSA2:

Wheel Nut:
As Dave has said many times. ADR is recognised throughout the World and South Africa say this about the above tank code.

Hi, Just to be pedantic (and actually that helps with ADR), ADR as of the 2019 edition applies to the following countries:

Albania, Andorra, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia,Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Montenegro, Morocco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, the Republic of Moldova, Romania, Russian Federation, San-Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine and United Kingdom. Not worldwide.

Regards

Edit: Mispelled “pedantic” D’OH!

Couldn’t resist being pedantic and mention you missed Nigeria off your list (2018 signatory), and it’s now “North Macedonia” :slight_smile:

11

Road2ruin:
Probably one for Diesel Dave this, but anyone else care to chip in the more the merrier.

I have just recently re-sat my DGSA exams, all went well, however there was one question I didn’t know the answer to and still can’t find it. It is now giving me sleepless nights that I can’t work it out.
I have written the gist of the question below.

A product UN1222 Isopropyl Nitrate, is not approved to be carried in tanks. (checks table A and of course there is no code in column 12). If the company could persuade the government that is was safe to do so, under what reference of ADR would it be allowed. You had to quote the reference for your one mark.

The only thing I could think of (but I am pretty sure it’s not right), is the exemption that allows approved use of vehicles by the government for emergency transport intended to save human lives or protect the environment…

I know it won’t make any difference to my pass or fail, especially one mark, but I hate it when I can’t find an answer to something.

Ta in advance
R2R

Hi R2R,

Sorry for the delay… I was busy doing DGSA stuff! :blush: :blush:

Taking the question as you’ve written it ( = to the best of your memory,) it mentions international, so it’s ADR 1.5.1.

However, ADR 1.5.1 mentions “competent authorities of the Contracting Parties” so in our case, I think that this would mean the UK DfT informing the Secretariat, and a multilateral agreement being made etc.

If it were to do with national carriage, I’d have probably gone for CDG 2009 (as amended) Reg.12, which I imagine would be less of a process.

In the DGSA exams, there’s a clue in the ‘reference’ box, which if it mentions “CDG” in the reference box means it’s a UK national transport question.

As a discussion point, the first point of contact to see if the notion of getting permission is viable I’d suggest would be the DfT, who might then deal with it by way of a UK ‘authorisation’ or an ADR ‘multilateral agreement.’

A very interesting question though!! :smiley:

12

Hi DeiselDave,

No mention of CDG (those were other questions). This is my third DGSA exams and never come up with the question before! At least I can put my mind at rest as I am pretty sure 1.5 is correct.
Results next week I hope, covid-19 permitting.

Regards
R2R

13

Road2ruin:
Hi DeiselDave,

No mention of CDG (those were other questions). This is my third DGSA exams and never come up with the question before! At least I can put my mind at rest as I am pretty sure 1.5 is correct.
Results next week I hope, covid-19 permitting.

Regards
R2R

Hi R2R,

I can only raise you by one… my last re-qual in 2018 was my fourth lot of DGSA exams, my next lot will be in 2023.
After I’d done those exams, I booked the Rail exam for the next rotation, so now I’ve passed that one, I can advise the Fat Controller. :grimacing:

I agree that I’ve never seen that derogation question before.

My tactics for that would have been to leave that question right until the end, so concentrating on gaining as many marks as possible from the questions that I know both the answer and the reference to.

There was a one-mark question that got me similarly a few years ago though… it related to some new explosives that needed to be sent to a lab for testing, then it asked the maximum size of the 4G box that could be used.
It was only once I got back home that I realised that the question gave me the clue that the explosives were unclassified, but could I work that out in the exam room on the day…■■ Not a chance!! :blush: :blush: :blush:

Now I know it was your third lot of exams, It’s clear that you’d have known the CDG trick in the reference box. :smiley:

:bulb: If that derogation question was all that was in doubt, then it sounds like you’ve comfortably nailed it!! :smiley:

14

It’s annoying that SQA don’t provide past papers and an Examiner’s Report in the way that OCR do for the TM CPC - with OCR you get to see what should have been the correct answer and in that way their past papers are very useful.

I was led to believe it would be about six weeks for the results, so wasn’t anticipating finding out until early New Year.

15

Zac_A:
It’s annoying that SQA don’t provide past papers and an Examiner’s Report in the way that OCR do for the TM CPC - with OCR you get to see what should have been the correct answer and in that way their past papers are very useful.

I was led to believe it would be about six weeks for the results, so wasn’t anticipating finding out until early New Year.

Hi Zac_A,

SQA can be a bit frustrating in the way that they do things, but here’s a link to a page that may answer some of your wonderment:

On that page are a number of useful links, one of which is an excel spreadsheet of results/trends.

16

Cheers Dave, I’d seen that spreadsheet when I was preparing for the exams, it’s interesting statistically, but for candidates who don’t pass, it wouldn’t leave them any the wiser as to where they’d gone wrong.
Interesting to note how few people take the rail and inland waterways exams, it’s clearly a very niche market.

17

Hi Guys,

Zac_A, I wasn’t sure about the length of times for results, so it could be the New year. I agree about the niche rules, I guess it’s that most people sit the DGSA exams for a particular business and there are a lot more road operations than anything else!
I hate to say it, but I actually quite enjoy the exams, gets the old grey matter going a lot more than the day to day stuff. With regards to the past papers I too wish they would publish them, it would be great for new candidates to actually see how the questions are answered.

Good luck Zac.

Regards
R2R

18

Zac_A:
It’s annoying that SQA don’t provide past papers …

SQA do provide some guidance in the form of ‘samples’ though:

I hope this may help those contemplating taking their DGSA exams.