Deliveries to Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys etc

[tetley]

Maybe the wrong place to ask this, but hopefully someone will be able to give me an answer.

Is there anybody who does deliveries to Northern Ireland for the likes of Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys etc?

If so, when you get to the store and onto the bay, what is your normal routine? Do you stay in the cab and let the ‘storemen’ unload the trailer, or are you expected to help tipping the load?

I have a reason for asking, but would like to see if any initial replies are forth coming first. I don’t want to go into too much detail in this post, but will expand if someone can answer this initial query.

Thanks.

[curly]

When i used to deliver for tesco out of boucher road we used to give a hand and sometimes used to have to take away the rubbish cages and drop them off at lisburn,talking about 6 years ago now.

[tetley]

OK…. Reason for asking…. Sorry, but this may be a bit long winded…

I’ve been lucky enough to get a start doing C+E (through agency) driving local deliveries for Sainsburys. (Tri-axle fridges)

Did my first run for them yesterday (2.30am start). (In fact, first run for anybody since passing the test)

I was told that I’d be expected to assist tipping the load. Being a new start I took this to be the norm.

Arrived at first drop and two ‘intake’ storemen helped with unloading. (Tacho set to ‘other work’) Due to problems with scissor lift, I didn’t get back to the yard ‘till 0815. At this stage I took a break, under WTD (45 mins) and grabbed a bite to eat. (Total driving time 30 — 35 mins)

Given a second run and left the yard at 1010am, eventually getting onto the bay at 1130. (Again, Tacho set to ‘other work’) The two storemen, in broken English, said that they were not allowed into the trailer and refused to help with the load.

At this point, and in hindsight, I should have been thinking of taking another break under WTD, ( I know I’ve made a ■■■■-up here) but I’m afraid the Red Mist came over the eyes and all train of thought went out the window, along with some choice comments towards the storemen. (Good job they couldn’t understand a Norn Iron accent in full flight!)

Anyway, tipped the full load myself. …… Lorry, to lift, to a clear area in store…., then ‘Bill and Ben’ were gracious enough to wheel it somewhere else. All in all it took me 1 hour 55 to empty the thing and ready to head back to base, with the gravy running out me (thankfully no return load).

Back at the yard, (1455) office boss told me I was done for the day, and asked how the first shift had gone.

Explained about machinery problems and delay at first drop, no bother there… When I told him about the second run, he went ballistic…. Not at me for tipping the trailer, but the fact that ‘Bill and Ben’ hadn’t helped out. His comments seemed to point to the fact that this wasn’t the first time this had happened, and said he would do something about it. (to be seen !!!)

Main point of the post… with some questions… regarding H&S, WTD….

As a driver… Am I expected to assist with tipping the load? … bearing in mind that I’m not expected to load the dam thing in the first place before I set out. ( or is this unique to Norn Iron as opposed to UK mainland) or just get the load from A to B?

If I unload, whether assisted or not, how would I be covered from a H&S point, if I get an injury, e.g Cut or crushed hand while shifting trolleys / cages, or a foot injury, caused by an electric pallet truck, and I am unable to drive the return trip? The ‘yard’ would then have to send out a ‘rescue’ party to get both myself and the lorry back. Would H&S say I shouldn’t have been in there in the first place. (and… I haven’t been officially trained how to use the pallet truck)

I know that I should have taken another break under the WTD at the 9 hour point, and that I’ve made a blunder on my first day. I should have taken it as soon as I stopped on the bay, but with ‘Bill and Ben’ ■■■■■■■ me about my brain went into ‘well ■■■■ you’ mode, (my fault) so didn’t take the break as required. This will obviously show up when the tacho card is checked. Would I have been in the right to say “I’m taking a 30 min rest”, but this would have meant blocking a bay whist taking a WTD break? (I was nowhere near my driving time limits) I could have put the tacho to ‘rest’ but I know that this would not have been right either!

I’m due to be driving for them two days next weekend, but being agency, when they see the fault, am I likely to be told, can’t use you anymore, or would a safety boot in the knackers and a reminder to stick to the rules be the order of the day, as it was my first run for them / anybody.
Could I be officially pulled for it if Vosa (DTA boys over here) checked the disk?
Finally,

Would I be better bringing the ‘indiscretion’ to their attention, (the yard bosses) before they bring it to mine?

I have learned from the first days driving / problems, but wondering if anyone could offer any advice on the above.

As a new start doing agency work, I don’t want to stir it by asking too many questions at the yard… but I also want to try and keep myself right.

Sorry for rambling on but if anyone with the appropriate knowledge could advise, I’d be grateful.

[rog]

electric pallet truck

Are these operating within the vacinity of where you are working
If yes, what is the company risk assessment on you doing so

[magnumboy]

Tetley, With sainsburys, Tescos etc in NI I always thought it was:

Driver - not allowed into store room - all combis, pallets etc to be taken from loading bay by store staff

Store Staff - Not allowed into trailer or onto scissor lifts, must take all combis, pallets into store room AFTER driver has taken them of the lift?

I worked on Wincanton for Musgraves and it was the same, although in smaller stores we had to take the deliveries into the store rooms / shops with no loading bays.

[wheel_nut]

To be honest. I dont think anyone can give a simple yes or no answer to this question. The majority of RDC will not allow you in the trailer or in the warehouse in case you nick the stock. Others want you stood where they can see you and others expect you to wait in a smoke filled drivers room.

I have the same problems in France, some places expect you to strip both sides of a euroliner while others point you onto a bay and pass you a pallet truck.

I dont do much supermarket work, but there are normally a full set of site rules at the gatehouses.

But in general it is the drivers job to oversee his load.

[tetley]

Rog… Please don’t shout at me that I should know better… but…

I’ve been out of work for just over a year now, so was more than happy when the offer of work came from the agency.

In my previous employment, I did, at times, have to do risk assessments for various things, so I’m aware that proper training would have to be given where necessary.

To answer your Q’s

Yes … and expected to use them if required… to explain

3 of us (all new starts) started on the same shift. Before we were given our runs, we were told that to assist unloading we would probably either have to use an electric or manual pallet truck, but that was it! Nothing else.
On arrival at the first drop, the storeman gave me a quick rundown (all of 2 minutes) on how to operate the electric truck, and basically left me to it. Whether this would constitute ‘formal’ training in their eyes, and cover them under H&S, I’m not sure. I can get my head round basically anything mechanical so I was happy enough to use the thing, but was wondering if his ‘training’ would have been deemed sufficient.

As regards the company risk assessment on me using them — I can only say I don’t know.

They would surely have to have something in place, to keep their asses covered, but again I don’t know to what degree this is written down. We obviously weren’t given the opportunity to look at it.

As stated… one shift down, supposed to be working another two next week, but as an agency worker,
I don’t want to start asking awkward questions so early, in case I get the ‘Don’t bother coming back you smart git” answer.

I’m playing it very much by ear at the minute, as I need the money coming into the house, but if I’m not happy by next weekend, it might be a case of seeing if the agency has any other openings.

[rog]

I have been reliably informed recently that using any sort of machinery, including electric pallet trucks, requires you to be certificated - if not, it is likely that you are not insured

[tetley]

Thanks for the replies so far and personal knowledge / experience.

Don’t get me wrong… I’m not complaining about having to do a load of ■■■■■■■ about. I’m happy enough to help out where required but …

In some of the posts I’ve read, members say that they’re made to wait while the lorry is unloaded, and not allowed near it until finished. Just wondered if this was supposed to be the normal practice.

From answers / comments received it would appear to be different from store to store, so I’ll accept the unloading bit as it, and am happy enough to accept that I might get help, I might not.

At least that’s one part cleared up.

(Memo to self … must start doing some training to get fitter!)

On the other point of missing the break under WTD regs. Any thoughts? Or am I worrying too much?

[macplaxton]

You don’t have to take a break at the 9 hour point as such.

Assuming the driving time is racking up “slowly” and WTD takes precedence. You can’t work more than 6 hours without a break (which can be 15 minutes.

As your shift was 12h 25m long (over 9h) all you need to take breaks totalling 45mins.

You “worked” (drive+other work) for 5h 45m and took a break of 45m this gets you to 6h 30m into the shift - work time remaining 5h 55m. Seems like you got all you WTD break time in then.

Now if you took the first break earlier, or were due to finish after 1430h then you would of had to have a further 15m under the 6 hour rule.

I would go back and re-learn your WTD.

As far as I’m concerned my job is to unload and get it to the back door / goods in. Where they want it after that is their problem.

[krankee]

ROG:
I have been reliably informed recently that using any sort of machinery, … requires you to be certificated - if not, it is likely that you are not insured

Does that include operating a lift when staying in an hotel. Or pressing the button on a Pelican crossing.

Sorry ROG, but the terms arse, out of, one’s, and talking, spring to mind.

Broad statements are rarely helpful, but one that is, is that if you are lawfully on the premises, then you ARE insured, and, resulting from previous decisions, even if there unlawfully, may still be in a position to claim compensation. Ultimately, any variance relating to a claim (as opposed to a refusal) will rely upon the demonstration of a degree of Recklessness or Negligence (on the part of the claimant).

The genral concensus, on here, over the years, is that the driver is reponsible for the load whilst it is inside the vehicle. Once outside, it is the remit of others.

However, dependant upon the contract with the customer, there can be variations and, as a driver, you’d be hard pressed to actually see the Contract, whereupon you have to be guided by ‘responsible’ persons providing such information. And in the absence of information to the contrary, it would be unwise to protest otherwise.

H&S is not an exact science. One member on containers, perhaps Lucy, once quoted a situation where one was required to wear a hard hat, whilst inside the cab, when being loaded.

Although I’ve only done a limited number of Store deliveries, at most locations, they appreciate the help. And speeds up the delivery. Frankly, I think you encountered a couple of idlers who were taking the ■■■■.

I’m not averse, at regular collections, to jumping on an MHE and assisting with the loading. It’s not required of me. Whilst not formally trained, I’ve been using them, in a sensible manner, for umpteen years without incident. I’m simply helping out someone with whom I have built up a friendly raltionship over the years.

Next we’ll all be needing a Certificate to entitle us to cross the road.

[rocketman]

You can’t work more than 6 hours without a break (which can be 15 minutes. )

Correct me if i am wrong but doesn’t this apply to “Mobile” workers ? On reading the “Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs Goods vehicles in the UK and Europe (Revised 2007)” it states :-
If you operate a vehicle in scope of the EU drivers hours then you are subject to the Road Transport Regulations unless you are an occasional mobile worker.
Now a definition of an occasional mobile worker:-
A mobile worker would be exempt from the 2007 regulations if: he works 10 days or less within scope of the european drivers hours rules in a reference period that is shorter than 26 weeks or he works 15 days or less within scope of the european drivers hours rules in a reference period that is 26 weeks or longer.
I suppose my point is is Tetley a mobile worker ? if not then is he still governed to take a break after 6 hours of work ■■
I am still trying to make head or tail of said Rules on Drivers Hours and Tachographs Goods vehicles in the UK and Europe (Revised 2007) myself so any additional explanations are more than welcome.

[scanny77]

simple answer to this one

ASK ONE OF THEIR OWN DRIVERS BEFORE YOU LEAVE

with tesco i never go into the warehouse at the depot. trailers are loaded and shifted ready for the driver to pick them up but at the store you are expected to get the cages off the trailer. if its a tail lift job you put the cages on the tail lift and lower it. then its the stores problem. if its a scissor lift you put the cages on the lift and they lower it and tip it. if its a leveller you roll the cages off and leave them. with somerfields you never leave the back of the trailer. most of the trolley jobs are similiar but i only go so far. i dont mind helping the storeman out but i wont do it all myself. there is only one driver and how many staff in the shop? unless it has changed palmer and harvey are the only company i have worked for who expect the driver to tip the wagon, roll the cages into the shop and unload the cages hence i did 3 full days and 2 or 3 drops on the 4th day before returning to depot and telling them to stick it. driver, not idiot!

[wheel_nut]

Krankee:

ROG:
I have been reliably informed recently that using any sort of machinery, … requires you to be certificated - if not, it is likely that you are not insured

Does that include operating a lift when staying in an hotel. Or pressing the button on a Pelican crossing.

Sorry ROG, but the terms arse, out of, one’s, and talking, spring to mind.

Broad statements are rarely helpful, but one that is, is that if you are lawfully on the premises, then you ARE insured, and, resulting from previous decisions, even if there unlawfully, may still be in a position to claim compensation. Ultimately, any variance relating to a claim (as opposed to a refusal) will rely upon the demonstration of a degree of Recklessness or Negligence (on the part of the claimant).

H&S is not an exact science. One member on containers, perhaps Lucy, once quoted a situation where one was required to wear a hard hat, whilst inside the cab, when being loaded.

Next we’ll all be needing a Certificate to entitle us to cross the road.

I dont think you are allowed to talk about H&S.

A recent visit to a well known site in the UK went like this.

Walk to the gatehouse from the truck.
Good Morning Driver. are you booked in? No. I was just passing I wondered if you had anything for FranceYes. Then please drive your truck to the barrier.
I got out & was then handed a sheet of laminated plastic. then I was asked if I understood it. Then it was read to me aloud, then the guy started checking I had everything on the list.

Hard Hat.*
Chin Strap*
Safety Boots*
Long Sleeves*
Long Trousers*
Safety Glasses with sideguards*
Ear Plugs*
Protective Gloves*

all to be worn from this point onwards**

Items in Cab
No aluminium cans,
No bottles,
No cigarette lighters,
No matches,
No cooking equipment,
No TV,
No gas cylinders,
No mobile phones,
No cigarettes,

GPS receiver turned off.
Cab radio turned off.

Hazard warning lights and headlights must be used at all times on site, drivers are not allowed on the truck while loading. drivers must not climb onto load, driver must not speak to fork truck driver while loading.

No eating or drinking while on site, water is available from security.

who makes all this crap up, by the time I read it all my time was up

[rog]

I notice that it did not say anything about NOT running people over so that must be OK then

[scanny77]

Wheel Nut:

Krankee:

ROG:
I have been reliably informed recently that using any sort of machinery, … requires you to be certificated - if not, it is likely that you are not insured

Does that include operating a lift when staying in an hotel. Or pressing the button on a Pelican crossing.

Sorry ROG, but the terms arse, out of, one’s, and talking, spring to mind.

Broad statements are rarely helpful, but one that is, is that if you are lawfully on the premises, then you ARE insured, and, resulting from previous decisions, even if there unlawfully, may still be in a position to claim compensation. Ultimately, any variance relating to a claim (as opposed to a refusal) will rely upon the demonstration of a degree of Recklessness or Negligence (on the part of the claimant).

H&S is not an exact science. One member on containers, perhaps Lucy, once quoted a situation where one was required to wear a hard hat, whilst inside the cab, when being loaded.

Next we’ll all be needing a Certificate to entitle us to cross the road.

I dont think you are allowed to talk about H&S.

A recent visit to a well known site in the UK went like this.

Walk to the gatehouse from the truck.
Good Morning Driver. are you booked in? No. I was just passing I wondered if you had anything for FranceYes. Then please drive your truck to the barrier.
I got out & was then handed a sheet of laminated plastic. then I was asked if I understood it. Then it was read to me aloud, then the guy started checking I had everything on the list.

Hard Hat.*
Chin Strap*
Safety Boots*
Long Sleeves*
Long Trousers*
Safety Glasses with sideguards*
Ear Plugs*
Protective Gloves*

all to be worn from this point onwards**

Items in Cab
No aluminium cans,
No bottles,
No cigarette lighters,
No matches,
No cooking equipment,
No TV,
No gas cylinders,
No mobile phones,
No cigarettes,

GPS receiver turned off.
Cab radio turned off.

Hazard warning lights and headlights must be used at all times on site, drivers are not allowed on the truck while loading. drivers must not climb onto load, driver must not speak to fork truck driver while loading.

No eating or drinking while on site, water is available from security.

who makes all this crap up, by the time I read it all my time was up

is it a tesco RDC by any chance?

[rog]

is it a tesco RDC by any chance?

Every LITTLE helps

[krankee]

ROG:
I notice that it did not say anything about NOT running people over so that must be OK then

That’s obviously permitted. After all, safety specs with sideguards knackers your peripheral vision and the earplugs mean that you don’t have to listen to the squeals as you drive over someone’s feet.

And if you’ve got certain makes of vehicle, then you don’t even need to hand over the keys, as the removal of which would result in the vehicle headlights being extinguished.

[simon]

To get back to the original post though.

When I did RDC work for the various supermarkets, delivering to shops. The general rule of thumb was -
The driver wheels pallets to the back of the trailer.
If you have to use your tail lift, you wheel the pallets onto the tail lift and lower the tail lift to the ground.
If you are reversed up to a shops scissor lift, you wheel the pallets onto the scissor lift.
At this point , it is then the responsibility of the shops back door man.

If the back door man is willing to help you with your part of the job, it is only fair to help him with his part.

[tetley]

Thanks for all the replies folks…

Some useful comments… and things taken on board.

Macplaxton … Your comment of “Go back and re-learn your WTD”

Fair point… Problem being, with only starting out, I’m trying to remember a lot of things I’ve been reading on various sites, and I’m sure you would agree it’s quite daunting when you start off at first. However, you’re right… a lot more reading required… hopefully it will all sink in as time goes on.

Thanks to all.