shep532:
I don’t know the full powers of the TCs but believe them to be quite high. I see no harm if the DCs lean on Operators to push the DCPC along. Isn’t this a positive result? The scheme isn’t going to get scrapped or go away so people may as well stop waiting for that … isn’t it better that it is pushed onto operators rather than individual drivers?
It’s not going to be pushed onto operators though is it, the law says drivers/companies have until September 2014 to get the training done so that should be good enough, I fail to see how it’s anyone’s business but the drivers/companies when the training is done as long as it’s done on time.
When an Operator gets an O licence they promise to operate within the law.
If they break the law, then they jeopardise the licence.
Even before the Driver CPC was thought of, TCs used to tell operators that they had to train their drivers in (for example) daily checks, drivers hours or tachograph operation if non-compliance through ignorance was a problem and they wanted to stay in business.
Bell is actually doing operators a favour here…she could say you haven’t been operating legally as you said you would so you better hand your licence back.Instead she’s in effect saying…take a day next week to get your drivers trained up as the law requires and then you can carry on.
I don’t have a problem with what you are saying…and agree the DCPC requirement isn’t going to go away…but it has to be remembered the examples you give are operational requirements which are to be adhered to in order to conduct the business.
DCPC is a requirement placed on drivers in order that they keep their vocational license. Two completely different things…wouldn’t you agree?
Instead of enforcing these requirements on drivers, operators would/should have the… discretion/legal option… to terminate a drivers employment. That is unless the operators are willing to pay for the DCPC. But to put the onus on operators to enforce the regs is wrong IMO. That should be the responsibility of whichever dept. is pushing the DCPC through.
Either way, again, I doubt whether TC’s have the lawful/legal authority to enforce either on operators no matter what Ms Bell thinks.
I took a class 1 driving course and got full DCPC to 2019, I would have still got it if I had not passed. At this point I had never drove a truck outside of trucky lessons. Fraud surely.
Redrorry:
I sat a took a class 1 driving course and got full DCPC to 2019, I would have still got it if I had not passed. At this point I had never drove a truck outside of trucky lessons. Fraud surely.
And therein lies the entire stupidity of this law.
Everybody is concerned about whether there should be exams, whether the companies should pay, how good the training is, but surely there has to be some thought put in to giving exemptions based on experience?
Imagine, next year they introduce a law for doctors to take a CPC style training. I would much rather have a surgeon who has performed hundreds of operations give me a heart transplant, than some newly qualified boy with a piece of plastic just out of medical school. This is one of the major issues that “older” drivers are concerned about. for the DCPC one size doesn’t fit all!
Redrorry:
I sat a took a class 1 driving course and got full DCPC to 2019, I would have still got it if I had not passed. At this point I had never drove a truck outside of trucky lessons. Fraud surely.
And therein lies the entire stupidity of this law.
Everybody is concerned about whether there should be exams, whether the companies should pay, how good the training is, but surely there has to be some thought put in to giving exemptions based on experience?
Imagine, next year they introduce a law for doctors to take a CPC style training. I would much rather have a surgeon who has performed hundreds of operations give me a heart transplant, than some newly qualified boy with a piece of plastic just out of medical school. This is one of the major issues that “older” drivers are concerned about. for the DCPC one size doesn’t fit all!
Here Here truckerjon well said, for those of us that can remember the introduction of the HGV license back in 69/70 there were grandfather rights for those that had already been driving said vehicles, surely and logically the same should apply to the DCPC !
Regards Tony H.
Solly:
I’m sorry lads I am having difficulty following some of the arguments here.
Ms Bell has an impossible task in enforcing the DCPC regulations as she cannot possibly do it alone… and anyway what lawful authority does she hold to instruct Operators that it is their responsibility to enforce it? As far as I can see she is attempting to employ the same tactics as were used by government to collect taxes from employees/workers all those decades ago…and more recently the enforcement of the “Smoking Ban”.
She may well come unstuck on the DCPC if Operators object…and they should. It is not their remit to enforce the will of governments. Anyway why should operators act as Policy-men? They are not Policy enforcers.
The more I hear about your ms beverley Bell the more my blood boils - A previous post mentions that she intends to impose fines of about 30 quid on those caught driving without the card after the cut off date - under what laws can she set and decide a fine, or for that matter any form of sanction? I heard of a bloke getting done for running a magnet recently, he got a 1500 pound fine in a magistrates court after having being charged with an offence and pleading guilty - crime committed, penalty received. THEN the bloody tc decides to impose yet another punishment by removing his licence for 12 months - 1 crime and 2 punishments, its bloody disgraceful and only happens in the UK.
how about , if training is so important ,make the goverment pay for the ■■■■■■ ,i already spent 2 grand passing my test,and when i decided on this career path ,to invest that money in myself ,there was no mention that i would have to keep paying for ridiculous innept inaccurate ongoing timewasting moneymaking “training”
i learnt the proper way car-van-7.5t.class2-class 1-starting at the bottom and working my way up ,doing time as a fitter along the way,then i have to spend 35 hours with some plank who cant even tie a ■■■■■■ dolly ffs
mezzzz1211:
how about , if training is so important ,make the goverment pay for the [zb] ,i already spent 2 grand passing my test,and when i decided on this career path ,to invest that money in myself ,there was no mention that i would have to keep paying for ridiculous innept inaccurate ongoing timewasting moneymaking “training”
i learnt the proper way car-van-7.5t.class2-class 1-starting at the bottom and working my way up ,doing time as a fitter along the way,then i have to spend 35 hours with some plank who cant even tie a [zb] dolly ffs
as it happens, you can get the government to pay for it.
you get it in the form of a tax rebate. any training can be reclaimed.
and so can licence renewal, passport, work wear. if it’s work related you can claim it back.
and that’s for PAYE, not just self employed.
I did vote No to both
1.) Legal things never get repealed as it would be too embarassing for goverment, especially European law which we seem to have to break our necks to work to even though other member state won’t.
2.) When I sat through mine it taught me nothing I didn’t know from doing the job.
What I think though is , it’s all about blame !
Before DCPC there would have been cases where drivers have not been convicted by pleading, ‘I didn’t know, nobody has told me’. Now for every bit of content in the DCPC courses that we have attained, we can be sucessfully convicted because we knew !
truckerjon:
… now lets look at these feedback forms. If i put on my form that the trainer was totally useless, what are the chances that JAUPT will ever get to see it?
Hi Jon,
As has already been mentioned, there is an auditing system and it forms part of the process of continuous approval.
However, if you have real concerns about a trainer or a course being sub-standard, you have the separate option of reporting it to JAUPT/DSA. I think you’d find that they’re at least credible in that they will investigate and remove approval from an organisation who fall below standard, you only have to recall what happened to URTU.
If you read the story, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that the system lacks teeth or credibility, because URTU’s premises were raided by the Police and seven people were arrested for fraud offences.
And subsequently released without any charges being brought.
Can see a few trips to the European court of human rights here!
They going to tell some British driver he cant drive a truck for hire and reward because he aint got a stupid bloody CPC and yet some Pole or Latvian can drive one without one because his countries government does not make him have one till 2020.
Think there is going to be a few (ZB)ed up East europeans out there.
Or are we all going to tut and scratch our bollox as usual?
Bking:
Can see a few trips to the European court of human rights here!
They going to tell some British driver he cant drive a truck for hire and reward because he aint got a stupid bloody CPC and yet some Pole or Latvian can drive one without one because his countries government does not make him have one till 2020.
Think there is going to be a few (ZB)ed up East europeans out there.
Or are we all going to tut and scratch our bollox as usual?
I think it is only Germany and Holland who are not signed up until 2016.
If you were born before 1955 in Holland, you are exempt from it.
LGVTrainer:
Thanks for being frank Mike-C. I consider the “expert” comment a compliment.
I think maybe that was a backhanded compliment, I suspect Mike may have been suggesting that you are an expert at taking money for courses which were never delivered.
Still, it’s not too late to sell your house and give them their money back.
Well said Harry, i think everyone knows my thoughts on DCPC …waste of time money etc, the only people who benefit from it all are the so called trainers…teachers…government, most of what a driver does from day one is common sense…things like load security rope and sheeting i was shown and had to get on with it, ratchet straps an ape could figure those out and like a lot of older drivers me included started out on log books…then the tacho disc and now the digi card, all i had to figure out my self , so now in my twilight yrs as a driver i have to pay or should i say robbed ! of my money for someone thats going to bore me to death and convince me i need it …like bollox i do…come 2014 i will be hanging up my keys for good and so will plenty more, DCPC is nothing but a tax and we know it is.
alte hase:
A period of ‘training’ extending to 35 hours once every 5 years is going to have a real world impact on the ‘ability’ of a driver to become or behave in a more professional manner is it?, my apprenticeship in engineering was for 5 years, working 5 days per week, from 08.00 untill 17.00, with an hour dinner break, anyway more than NINE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED HOURS of training, after deducting holidays etc, dont try taking the pee out of me , its a money harvesting program.
They going to tell some British driver he cant drive a truck for hire and reward because he aint got a stupid bloody CPC and yet some Pole or Latvian can drive one without one because his countries government does not make him have one till 2020.
Surely this quote above isn’t for real?.
A good 60% of the “drivers” at our place(begins with a T and ends with an O) are from eastern europe and are agency “drivers” not one has done any CPC traininig and most do not intend to as they say they are exempt till 2020.Then they will go home pay about 50 quid and come back with a full CPC ticket the following weelk and Vosa for all their crap cannot do bugger all about it.Maybe one way to get round this crap is to say you drive the truck for free and only get paid for loading and unloading.No hire and reward no crap cpc needed!
If they ditch the DCPC at the end of it like most of Europe appear to be pressuring to do then I will be suing the Government for loss of earning whilst attending these courses and also for the personal costs of these courses…rock on.
I can’t see them dropping it sadly, and it will continue to be a large waste of my time, this country is far too stubborn when it comes to making sensible decisions when it involves losing face.
Maybe one way to get round this crap is to say you drive the truck for free and only get paid for loading and unloading.No hire and reward no crap cpc needed!
An interesting idea, and fwiw I feel this is pretty much what the modern truck driving job is becoming in any case, many days I spend longer pumping pallets up and down the lorry than actually driving it !
An ex colleague rang me on Saturday, to say they’ve done a “course” on enjoying time at work. I don’t know the official name, but part of it involved watching a film where some American fishmongers let customers throw fish at them. WTF? The only thing more retarded is the fact people pay to attend this nonsense.
