DCPC views

Harry Monk:
I’ve done day 3 of 5 now and it really is doing my head in. I honestly haven’t learned anything at all, apart from what the minor categories on a driving licence mean, such as “lawn mower controlled by a pedestrian” and I’ve forgotten what that was already because I just don’t need to know it, and if I did then I would learn it.

The answer, as shep532 has written, is to write an accurate and factual critique of this hopeless course on the feedback form, which will have to be addressed when the trainer is audited by JAUPT.

There is no reason why an LGV or PCV driver needs to know that category k on their driving licence permits them to use a pedestrian controlled lawnmower - especially as any professional driver who passed their tests in the UK will have this category automatically (you get it with a category B pass, which is a pre-requisite to holding any LGV or PCVÂ categories).

There is good quality DCPC training out there and, despite protestations, good training is always helpful even if it is revising material you already know. An accurate refresher on the drivers’ hours rules, firmly grounded in the EUÂ regulations instead of potentially inaccurate secondary sources is always helpful. The inaccurate statements we see (reported on) these forums show that many drivers do not have a firm grasp of what they are supposed to be doing.

If you choose the right provider, you can incorporate training related to being a professional driver into periodic DCPC - ADR, Moffett, Hiab and, in some cases, CE upgrade training. Some of the eco-safe driving courses, if engaged with in the right frame of mind, could save a lot of money - potentially very important for owner drivers.

The problems seem to come more when drivers look for cheap training “just to get it over with”. That so many trainees and their employers focus on price over everything else has led to badly designed courses being delivered by poorly qualified trainers in bad facilities. However, it has to be stressed that this is what many people have set out to purchase - if you are buying training on price alone and you are going along with the attitude that it’s a waste of time and you’re not going to learn anything, you’re likely to have an unsatisfactory experience.

Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) - it is your money or your company’s money buying this training. If you have had an unsatisfactory experience, take it up with your Transport Manager if your employer was paying, or the provider if you were paying. The training companies have to have a system for responding to complaints, which is audited. Make use of it!

Well I see a lot of comments from the trainers here about how “quality” training is linked to price. Hmmmm I’m not so sure. What financial advantage is there to be gained by giving duff information over correct information? It takes the same time to prepare, and to teach. To say that everything expensive is better quality is not always true, there are many non transport related “training companies” who can put together training packages, taught by “trainers” but no one connected with the company has ever been nearer to a truck than lane one of the M25, and these companies, with big names in the training world, such as IAM, AA, RAC, ROSPA, UNITE, URTA, etc. will charge premium rates based on thier name and reputation, and yet they are mostly associated with car driving. Try calling out the AA when you breakdown in your 44 tonner! My wife took her driving test two years ago, she had lessons with AA, RED, and, after 4 test failures, a local one man band. The two big companies charged £3.00 per hour more than the local man, and yet the local guy was a far better instructor, who actually made her a better driver, got her through her test on his first attempt, and gave her confidence to drive.
now lets look at these feedback forms. If i put on my form that the trainer was totally useless, what are the chances that JAUPT will ever get to see it? Will it be regarded as some kind of personal vendetta, and not worth looking into? If I, as a qualified and long served instructor myself, find incorrect information being given out by the class trainer, and I am the only one who knows it to be incorrect, will JAUPT see my form, and then the forms from the other 10 in that class, and number me as a trouble maker? If what i hear is true, about the number of inefficient trainers, then JAUPT will need the army to help them sort through these feedback forms. Even if every form had glowing praise for the trainer, JAUPT can’t possibly read every one of them

Rather incredibly, one thing that has not even been mentioned on the course is weights, axle weights etc, one of the most important things for a driver to know. Today we spent several hours learning about different types of fire extinguisher.

A far better idea, to my mind, would be to make every driver sit a two-hour multiple choice exam on road transport. If he/she passes, then he/she gets the CPC card. If he/she fails, then he/she has to sit the course.

The tagline for the DCPC is “Get qualified, stay qualified”; Didn’t we do that by passing our tests? I can’t see how guessing the calories in a (insert brand of substandard food served by an unwashed student or asian bird with funny teeth) will make me a better driver?

truckerjon:
… now lets look at these feedback forms. If i put on my form that the trainer was totally useless, what are the chances that JAUPT will ever get to see it?

Hi Jon,

As has already been mentioned, there is an auditing system and it forms part of the process of continuous approval.

However, if you have real concerns about a trainer or a course being sub-standard, you have the separate option of reporting it to JAUPT/DSA. I think you’d find that they’re at least credible in that they will investigate and remove approval from an organisation who fall below standard, you only have to recall what happened to URTU.

:arrow_right: LINK to story in Commercial Motor

If you read the story, I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that the system lacks teeth or credibility, because URTU’s premises were raided by the Police and seven people were arrested for fraud offences.

Harry Monk:
Rather incredibly, one thing that has not even been mentioned on the course is weights, axle weights etc.

How many drivers know what there maximum kingpin load is?

Well, I’ve finished it now, thank Gawd.

I knew a week of it would be a horrific ordeal and would only have done two days, saving the rest for next year and 2014, but as I wasn’t working this week I thought I would bite the bullet and get it out of the way. If I was the type of person who enjoyed sitting in a classroom then I would have gone to University and become a brain surgeon or somesuch.

The tutor said that the guys who have to take it on Saturdays are enormously resentful about having to be there. I said I could fully understand that, having been away at work all week and having to miss a day with their kids, and he said that he fully understood it too. My instructor was a really nice bloke, the kind of person you are glad to have met but I stand my my ongoing view that this course was simply an unnecessary tax on my job.

voted no on both counts.
question 1, the govmnt will do exactly what they want and when they want. always have

question 2. i believe you get better as a driver with experience and working with other drivers. no amount of sitting in a classroom bored out of my skull will make me a better driver.

Waitrose trucker:

Harry Monk:
Rather incredibly, one thing that has not even been mentioned on the course is weights, axle weights etc.

How many drivers know what there maximum kingpin load is?

By reading the plating certificate on your circle checks

Harry Monk:
‘… guys who have to take it on Saturdays are enormously resentful about having to be there…’

I counts as work too - so I’m sure we trust it’s not in their 24/45, etc :exclamation:

poppiesfan:
‘…the govmnt will do exactly what they want and when they want…’

Not strictly true anymore because - especially due to the Lisbon Treaty - they have to do what the EU in Brussels says by when the EU in Brussels says it’s due to be done by.

Don’t be under allusion that the MP you voted for doesn’t know this whilst they want you to think that they have the ‘power’, guille, ability, etc, to properly lead this once proud nation: They don’t :exclamation:

Hi All
Its just a £2 a week tax on your licence I am supprised the French havent blocked the roads over it.
If you learn anything from these courses you should not have been let near a lorry in the first place.
As for those of us with a full course being a premium :laughing: :laughing: it wont happen we are in cut throat britain never mind who does a job well or legally
as long as they are cheap as for SAFED we signed up for the course & the first thing the guy told me was that he could get my fuel consumption up by 20 to 25 miles per gallon on a loaded 44 t lorry so with great interest I let him drive to show how this could be done, he got 1.6 to the gallon less than me so I suggested he told the training body why I didnt carry on & he fox trot out of my lorry.
We did the NVQ assesment & the invigilator was terrifed & said Trucks should not be on narrow roads like the A30 in Dorset or A27 east of Brighton .

Cheers Rich

Happy Keith:

Harry Monk:
‘… guys who have to take it on Saturdays are enormously resentful about having to be there…’

I counts as work too - so I’m sure we trust it’s not in their 24/45, etc :exclamation:

poppiesfan:
‘…the govmnt will do exactly what they want and when they want…’

Not strictly true anymore because - especially due to the Lisbon Treaty - they have to do what the EU in Brussels says by when the EU in Brussels says it’s due to be done by.

Don’t be under allusion that the MP you voted for doesn’t know this whilst they want you to think that they have the ‘power’, guille, ability, etc, to properly lead this once proud nation: They don’t :exclamation:

whether its our govt or the eu, or whoever they will do what they want. i do not trust any govmnt or mp,s anymore

poppiesfan:
‘… whether its our govt or the EU, or whoever they will do what they want. I do not trust any gov’nt or mp’s anymore…’

Flippin’ heck, mate, don’t do it - sounds like you’re about to connect the hose up to the exhaust :cry:

Wheel Nut:

Waitrose trucker:

Harry Monk:
Rather incredibly, one thing that has not even been mentioned on the course is weights, axle weights etc.

How many drivers know what there maximum kingpin load is?

By reading the plating certificate on your circle checks

3 points to wheel nut :smiley:

But trust me there’s a lot of drivers out there who don’t know.

Example
6x4 unit and tandem axle trailer plated at 40 tonne

Actual weight… Plated weight
Axle 1. 7000kg…7100kg
Axle 2. 10400kg…11500kg
Axle 3. 10400kg…11500kg
Axle 4. 6000kg…9000kg
Axle 5. 6000kg…9000kg

Total. 39800kg.

How many drivers would go over the scales and think they were perfectly legal because they hadn’t checked or didn’t know their max kingpin load was 14000kg??

Waitrose trucker:
Example
6x4 unit and tandem axle trailer plated at 40 tonne

Actual weight… Plated weight
Axle 1. 7000kg…7100kg
Axle 2. 10400kg…11500kg
Axle 3. 10400kg…11500kg
Axle 4. 6000kg…9000kg
Axle 5. 6000kg…9000kg

Total. 39800kg.

How many drivers would go over the scales and think they were perfectly legal because they hadn’t checked or didn’t know their max kingpin load was 14000kg??

You would also be over the GVW of the unit in that example, the first 3 axles add up to 27800kg and the unit’s GVW will be lower than that.

Paul

repton:

Waitrose trucker:
Example
6x4 unit and tandem axle trailer plated at 40 tonne

Actual weight… Plated weight
Axle 1. 7000kg…7100kg
Axle 2. 10400kg…11500kg
Axle 3. 10400kg…11500kg
Axle 4. 6000kg…9000kg
Axle 5. 6000kg…9000kg

Total. 39800kg.

How many drivers would go over the scales and think they were perfectly legal because they hadn’t checked or didn’t know their max kingpin load was 14000kg??

You would also be over the GVW of the unit in that example, the first 3 axles add up to 27800kg and the unit’s GVW will be lower than that.

Paul

:blush: yeh sorry 1800kg over

Harry Monk:
Well, I’ve finished it now, thank Gawd.

I knew a week of it would be a horrific ordeal and would only have done two days, saving the rest for next year and 2014, but as I wasn’t working this week I thought I would bite the bullet and get it out of the way. If I was the type of person who enjoyed sitting in a classroom then I would have gone to University and become a brain surgeon or somesuch.

The tutor said that the guys who have to take it on Saturdays are enormously resentful about having to be there. I said I could fully understand that, having been away at work all week and having to miss a day with their kids, and he said that he fully understood it too. My instructor was a really nice bloke, the kind of person you are glad to have met but I stand my my ongoing view that this course was simply an unnecessary tax on my job.

sounds about right,i dont know why we dont just pay whoever thought of this half baked ■■■■■■■■ and then we just work for nowt !!.can someone tell me what the digital tacho card and the photo licence was for ■■?

Waitrose trucker:

Harry Monk:
Rather incredibly, one thing that has not even been mentioned on the course is weights, axle weights etc.

How many drivers know what there maximum kingpin load is?

Good point: One driver asked me on Thursday why when I load 8wheelers, I load the rear first(ooh matron!) but only half fill the second bucket so’s not to overload the rear axles. Having driven some of our 8s, I know their axle weights are between 18-19000kgs. Driver didn’t know where to find this information…

Happy Keith:

poppiesfan:
‘…the govmnt will do exactly what they want and when they want…’

Not strictly true anymore because - especially due to the Lisbon Treaty - they have to do what the EU in Brussels says by when the EU in Brussels says it’s due to be done by.

The Treaty of Lisbon did not create the requirement to transpose an EU Directive into national law, or the direct applicability of EU Regulations, which, post-Lisbon, are found in Article 288 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

The Lisbon Treaty renamed the Treaty of Rome (which was more formally known as the Treaty establishing the European Community) as the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, also it renumbered this much-amended Treaty in sequential order. Pre-Lisbon, what is now Article 288 TFEU was Article 249 TEC.

The Lisbon Treaty did amend what is now TFEU in various ways, but there were no changes to this particular clause. The Lisbon reforms were much more modest than the failed EU Constitution proposals. Lisbon did not involve any major move of power to the EU - indeed, Lisbon arguably weakened the power of the European Commission by strengthening the power of the (democratically elected) European Parliament.

Dont worry lads there wont be a Euro or EU soon lol
Rich