sinclair89:
Thanks DD, the exam’s I took where SQA multiple choice questions. All the categories I have gained was all I did category wise. I did multiple choice for the packages and core as well.
Hi Sinclair 89,
The ADR exams are all multi-choice whichever exam route you took.
Did you do all the Classes exams separately, or did you do Classes 2, 3, 6 &8 on one paper (36 questions,) and another exam that had 24 questions to cover Classes 4, 5 &9?
dieseldave:
sinclair89:
Thanks DD, the exam’s I took where SQA multiple choice questions. All the categories I have gained was all I did category wise. I did multiple choice for the packages and core as well.Hi Sinclair 89,
The ADR exams are all multi-choice whichever exam route you took.
Did you do all the Classes exams separately, or did you do Classes 2, 3, 6 &8 on one paper (36 questions,) and another exam that had 24 questions to cover Classes 4, 5 &9?
Was all separate exams for each unit.
sinclair89:
Was all separate exams for each unit.
Both of the following exam route options are perfectly OK, but one is much cheaper…
#1 Exam fees for Core, Packs, Tanks and seven Classes taken individually = £20 X 10 = £200
#2 Exam fees for Core, Packs, Tanks and seven Classes taken by the combined route = £20 X 6 = £120
Assuming that the candidate passes all the exams, the resulting ADR card is exactly the same no matter which route was chosen, but there’s an £80 saving to be had by taking the combined route.
dieseldave:
sinclair89:
Was all separate exams for each unit.Both of the following exam route options are perfectly OK, but one is much cheaper…
#1 Exam fees for Core, Packs, Tanks and seven Classes taken individually = £20 X 10 = £200
#2 Exam fees for Core, Packs, Tanks and seven Classes taken by the combined route = £20 X 6 = £120
Assuming that the candidate passes all the exams, the resulting ADR card is exactly the same no matter which route was chosen, but there’s an £80 saving to be had by taking the combined route.
Good job I didn’t pay for it then [emoji2]
Hi Dave, quick question… If asked to pick up a shipping container from a railport and the UN codes on the sides do not match up what would be the correct procedure? Class 4.1, rear showing 2000, front 2002 and one side showing 2200. I know that the correct code should be 2000 for the product on board.
Wildy:
Hi Dave, quick question… If asked to pick up a shipping container from a railport and the UN codes on the sides do not match up what would be the correct procedure? Class 4.1, rear showing 2000, front 2002 and one side showing 2200. I know that the correct code should be 2000 for the product on board.
Hi Wildy,
A shipping container (ISO) needs to be marked with placards for each UN Class on all four sides when there’s any amount of dangerous goods in it.
You’ve said that you were carrying UN 2000, which is CELLULOID, Class 4.1, PGIII.
There should have been a Class 4.1 placard on all four sides:
On the front you said that there was “2002” which is CELLULOID, SCRAP, Class 4.2, PGIII
…But this would need a different placard, because it’s in a different UN Class (4.2.) 
Now we come to the UN code of “2200,” which you said was on one side.
This is interesting, because UN 2200 is PROPADIENE, STABILISED, which is in UN Class 2.1: (a flammable gas.)
If it were me, and given the info to hand, I’d have raised a query (possibly via your boss, the vehicle owner) with the firm who loaded the container onto your vehicle given that the UN Class of the goods loaded did not match the marking and placarding displayed on the container.
Clearly, the railway’s acceptance procedure at the point of departure (before it ever got to where you were to collect it) is somewhat lacking because any half sensible checking procedure should have picked up on this really basic error.
Just for my own interest, how were the UN codes displayed?
And… can you remember the approx. weight of the dangerous goods?
And… were there actually any gas cylinders in the container? 
Wildy:
Thanks for the reply. I’ve taken pics of the box.
The product on board is UN2000. And shown on DGN as such. Table tennis balls so weight approx 8ton.
Wildy:
Thanks for the reply. I’ve taken pics of the box.
The product on board is UN2000. And shown on DGN as such. Table tennis balls so weight approx 8ton.
Hi Wildy,
Thanks for the pics and extra info. 
Given that you picked up a container containing UN 2000 from a railhead, the required placards were 4 X 4.1, to be shown one on each side, plus one on the front and rear.
That would be all that’s required for a road/rail journey, as they are regulated by ADR/RID respectively.
If any part of the journey involved carriage by sea:
Then the requirements of the IMDG Code must be complied with as follows:
For amounts of dangerous goods up to (and including) 4,000kgs, the placarding requirement is the same as road/rail above.
IMDG requires that once the amount of dangerous goods of one UN number exceeds 4,000kgs, then the UN number must ADDITIONALLY be displayed.
When that requirement is triggered, IMDG says that there is a choice for how it can be achieved:
Option #1
A road/rail placard PLUS the four digits of the UN number (not less than 65mm height) on a separate orange panel not less than 300mm X 120mm like this:
OR
Option #2
The four digits of the UN number actually on the placard, but again not less than 65mm in height:
Either option is just as good as the other, IMDG doesn’t state a preference.
Thanks. I’ve now obtained a copy of the dangerous goods note. Total weight of goods was 3700kg. So the 8ton I saw must have included the weight of the container. However I now believe there to be other issues with the note. Also surprised that the box travelled from China without anybody noticing the problems.
Wildy:
Thanks. I’ve now obtained a copy of the dangerous goods note. Total weight of goods was 3700kg.
Hi Wildy,
So after all that… the UN number wasn’t required to be displayed on the container anyway!! 
4 X UN Class 4.1 placards were all that were needed on the container by Sea, Rail and Road.
Once the container was loaded onto your vehicle, you needed a pair of the standard ADR plain orange plates one on the front and one on the rear of your vehicle.
Wildy:
So the 8ton I saw must have included the weight of the container.
That would be my guess too!
Wildy:
However I now believe there to be other issues with the note.
Quite possibly if the placarding was anything to go by.
Wildy:
Also surprised that the box travelled from China without anybody noticing the problems.
I cant speak for Chinese standards, so all I can say is that China should adhere to IMDG.
My surprise comes at the lack of a quite fundamental and basic placarding issue being spotted at the UK port of entry AND the railhead people also missing it.
Hi Dave
A question on marking a multi pot Tank Container. Pot 1 contains a Class 3, UN1262 and so does pot 2. The rear pot holds Class 3, UN1300. On the front and both sides of pots 1&2 is a flammable placard also the on the sides is the product name. Pot 3 has flammable placards on both sides and the rear plus product name on both sides. The question is should a placard showing UN1300 also be on the front? The Tank Container is marked up for IMDG.
Ubiquitous:
Hi DaveA question on marking a multi pot Tank Container. Pot 1 contains a Class 3, UN1262 and so does pot 2. The rear pot holds Class 3, UN1300. On the front and both sides of pots 1&2 is a flammable placard also the on the sides is the product name. Pot 3 has flammable placards on both sides and the rear plus product name on both sides. The question is should a placard showing UN1300 also be on the front? The Tank Container is marked up for IMDG.
Hi Ubiquitous,
No mate, IMDG doesn’t mention anything about displaying placards on the front or rear ends of a multiple compartment tank, but it does mention:
Placards along each side at the positions of the relevant compartments
UN Number along each side at the positions of the relevant compartments, either on an orange panel adjacent to the placard, or actually within a white rectangle on the placard.
Hi Dave,
Can I drag you (kicking and screaming, probably) back to “bowsers”? I’ll try to be as specific as I can, but I’m sure you’ll come back with requests for data I’ve not supplied 
Anyway…
A charity I volunteer with (not the same one as I’ve asked you about before) has a number of items of plant (excavators, generators, cement mixers, etc.) that run on red diesel (UN1202, Class 3, PG III, I believe). At the moment, the way they’re buying red diesel means they’re paying the retail “pump” price.
They’re looking at getting a 5000-litre bunded tank so that they can get it delivered at the wholesale price - they’re using enough of it that the tank will repay itself in savings in a few months.
The bunded tank will stay at their depot, so AIUI is irrelevant from an ADR perspective.
However, they’re looking at getting a bowser trailer for transporting it from the depot to the plant on site - filling up an excavator using jerrycans can be a bit of a PITA…
I think the most likely option would be a purpose-built bowser trailer (i.e. tank permanently fixed to the body of the trailer). From reading your earlier replies, I believe this is defined as a “tank”?
It’s possible, though, that they may go for an IBC/portable tank carried on a plant trailer (and therefore a “package”?) - something like this: jerrycans.co.uk/cemo-dt-mobi … -449-p.asp .
It will be towed behind either a Transit-size van or a pickup.
Again, from reading your earlier replies, they can stay out of “full” ADR by staying under the 1000 litre capacity limit; is this true for both the “tank” and “package” option? Also, I realise that they’ll still require the 2 kg fire extinguisher plus (recorded) training etc. What is the lower limit where this comes into effect? How much UN1202 do you have to be carrying before you start to come under the “reduced” ADR requirements? I had assumed that a single jerrycan would be exempt, but doing a bit of research, LQ appears to be 5 litres, so if someone were carrying a single 20 l metal jerrycan (non-private use), are they still coming under ADR (albeit a “small load”)?
Is there a (realistic) way that the charity can stay out of ADR entirely? I think that suggesting that they buy a mountain of 5 l jerrycans to stay within LQ is likely to be met with raucous laughter 
I also noticed the following paragraph on the HSE website:
Bowsers are commonly towed by vans, 4 x 4s etc. Where the bowser is not an IBC (either conventionally or via authorisation no. 1), then the towing vehicle should meet the AT or FL standards as appropriate for the substance being carried (ADR 9.1.2.3)
Does that mean that, if they go down the “tank” route, they have to use a specially tested/modified vehicle to tow it? Actually, looking at the definitions of those codes, AT and FL only seem to apply where the capacity is over 1000 l, so I think I’ve answered my own question
Thanks in advance…
MrFlibble:
Hi Dave,
Can I drag you (kicking and screaming, probably) back to “bowsers”? I’ll try to be as specific as I can, but I’m sure you’ll come back with requests for data I’ve not suppliedAnyway…
A charity I volunteer with (not the same one as I’ve asked you about before) has a number of items of plant (excavators, generators, cement mixers, etc.) that run on red diesel (UN1202, Class 3, PG III, I believe). At the moment, the way they’re buying red diesel means they’re paying the retail “pump” price.
They’re looking at getting a 5000-litre bunded tank so that they can get it delivered at the wholesale price - they’re using enough of it that the tank will repay itself in savings in a few months.
The bunded tank will stay at their depot, so AIUI is irrelevant from an ADR perspective.
Hi MrFlibble,
All correct so far. 
MrFlibble:
However, they’re looking at getting a bowser trailer for transporting it from the depot to the plant on site - filling up an excavator using jerrycans can be a bit of a PITA…
Agreed, and it can get to be quite time consuming, a pain in wet weather, dirty and quite smelly if you get it on your clothes.
MrFlibble:
I think the most likely option would be a purpose-built bowser trailer (i.e. tank permanently fixed to the body of the trailer). From reading your earlier replies, I believe this is defined as a “tank”?
Not quite, but you got it spot-on in this next bit…
MrFlibble:
It’s possible, though, that they may go for an IBC/portable tank carried on a plant trailer (and therefore a “package”?) - something like this: jerrycans.co.uk/cemo-dt-mobi … -449-p.asp .It will be towed behind either a Transit-size van or a pickup.
I’ve had a look at the item shown in your link, but I’m not seeing anything (at first sight) that suggests it’s ok to use it for the purpose you’ve mentioned, so maybe it might come with the paperwork?
My suggestion (given that you wish to carry ‘something’ on a plant trailer) would be that you use something like this:
If you prefer the ‘tow behind a Transit’ option, my suggestion would be that you use something like this:
NOTE: The shape of it makes NO difference.
Both pictures are of a UN approved 1,000L steel IBC, which counts as a package.
MrFlibble:
Again, from reading your earlier replies, they can stay out of “full” ADR by staying under the 1000 litre capacity limit; is this true for both the “tank” and “package” option?
If you take my suggestions above, we’re ONLY talking of packages, which keeps things nice and easy.
Generally speaking, these IBCs are made with a bund (= double skin.)
The total including the bund is usually 1,100L, but the bund volume doesn’t count for ADR purposes.
To put it plainly, if you use one of the IBCs in the pics above and it’s of 1,000L nominal capacity, then the job does not fall to be regulated by ‘full’ ADR because of the small load exemption at ADR 1.1.3.6.
MrFlibble:
Also, I realise that they’ll still require the 2 kg fire extinguisher plus (recorded) training etc.
Correct!
MrFlibble:
What is the lower limit where this comes into effect? How much UN1202 do you have to be carrying before you start to come under the “reduced” ADR requirements? I had assumed that a single jerrycan would be exempt, but doing a bit of research, LQ appears to be 5 litres, so if someone were carrying a single 20 l metal jerrycan (non-private use), are they still coming under ADR (albeit a “small load”)?
Your research has led you to the correct answer.
MrFlibble:
Is there a (realistic) way that the charity can stay out of ADR entirely? I think that suggesting that they buy a mountain of 5 l jerrycans to stay within LQ is likely to be met with raucous laughter
Not really, and there’s no specific exemption for a charity.
Given the amount that you wish to transport, I think the notion of doing it by the LQ method is impractical.
MrFlibble:
I also noticed the following paragraph on the HSE website:Bowsers are commonly towed by vans, 4 x 4s etc. Where the bowser is not an IBC (either conventionally or via authorisation no. 1), then the towing vehicle should meet the AT or FL standards as appropriate for the substance being carried (ADR 9.1.2.3)
Does that mean that, if they go down the “tank” route, they have to use a specially tested/modified vehicle to tow it? Actually, looking at the definitions of those codes, AT and FL only seem to apply where the capacity is over 1000 l, so I think I’ve answered my own question
Thanks in advance…
Now it starts getting a bit technical I’m afraid… 
(However, it’s fair to say that you’ve answered your own question. )
There are different kinds of tank, so my best advice is to stick with the above, whilst remembering that the yellow thing in the bottom pic is NOT a tank.
dieseldave:
MrFlibble:
It’s possible, though, that they may go for an IBC/portable tank carried on a plant trailer (and therefore a “package”?) - something like this: jerrycans.co.uk/cemo-dt-mobi … -449-p.asp .It will be towed behind either a Transit-size van or a pickup.
I’ve had a look at the item shown in your link, but I’m not seeing anything (at first sight) that suggests it’s ok to use it for the purpose you’ve mentioned, so maybe it might come with the paperwork?
That’s because it’s cunningly hidden where you can’t see it
If you go to that link, then click on the “Large Portable Fuel Tanks” link on the left-hand margin menu, it gives you a list of a number of different tanks they supply, and under the shortened description for that tank, it says “Approved for transport under ADR”. Unless their website is lying (which is always possible 
), I’m assuming that it’s usable for transporting diesel under ADR
Here’s another example of a similar thing from another supplier:
fueltankshop.co.uk/transport … r_approved
dieseldave:
MrFlibble:
Also, I realise that they’ll still require the 2 kg fire extinguisher plus (recorded) training etc.Correct!
You see, we do listen to you (sometimes)
dieseldave:
MrFlibble:
What is the lower limit where this comes into effect? How much UN1202 do you have to be carrying before you start to come under the “reduced” ADR requirements? I had assumed that a single jerrycan would be exempt, but doing a bit of research, LQ appears to be 5 litres, so if someone were carrying a single 20 l metal jerrycan (non-private use), are they still coming under ADR (albeit a “small load”)?Your research has led you to the correct answer.
Thanks. I think they might be a bit surprised to learn that a single 20 l jerrycan puts them under (small load) ADR…
dieseldave:
There are different kinds of tank, so my best advice is to stick with the above, whilst remembering that the yellow thing in the bottom pic is NOT a tank.
I’d assumed (by reading between the lines of your previous answers) that if it were permanently fixed to the chassis, that made it a tank. Perhaps because it looks like it’s bolted down (and therefore technically removable if you undo the bolts?) I guess I don’t really need to know what defines the difference between a tank and a package, but curiosity gets the better of me
Thanks for the help
MrFlibble:
I’d assumed (by reading between the lines of your previous answers) that if it were permanently fixed to the chassis, that made it a tank. Perhaps because it looks like it’s bolted down (and therefore technically removable if you undo the bolts?) I guess I don’t really need to know what defines the difference between a tank and a package, but curiosity gets the better of meThanks for the help
You’re correct again Mr Flibble.
The bolts are simply a convenient way of securing the IBC (package) to the trailer.
They are easily removed and the IBC is then able to be handled mechanically (a defining requirement for IBCs) so as to be ADR compliant.
The difference is in the word “permanently” when describing the attachment.
This might sound a little confusing, but since you’re curiosity has been aroused…
I’ve had a look at the item you suggested in the side-bar of the link, and although I can see “ADR approved” etc, I noticed that I’m not seeing any evidence of the approval.
(That doesn’t mean that I suspect that it’s not approved.)
I would count this as evidence of approval:
You can clearly see this in both pics I posted above.
This next pic is also of an IBC bowser including the plate above, but this one is 2,000L size, so the driver would need an ADR licence valid for packages and UN Class 3. This one carries Jet A-1, which is slightly more flammable than Diesel but still with a 1,000L ADR limit.
Some IBCs can be up to 3,000L.
Click on pic to see full size
As an aside, I’m currently dealing with exactly this issue (approval) for another customer as we write. Spooky!
Hi Dave.
I’ve tried to read as many posts as I can so hopefully you haven’t already answered this question. It’s more of a general question with exact examples. Simply put I would like to know where I can find out the required information so I can solve my problems.
I work for a consolidation centre dealing with restaurants. We deal with everything from food to kitchen equipment and cleaning products which is where my questions come in.
My understand was that anything with a dangerous goods sticker on it had to be transported with an ADR. As I’m learning this is not the case. I’ve now learnt there are 5(?) groups of dangerous goods. Exempt, limited, expected, ADR and something else. How do I know what I can take without possessing an ADR which I do not have. For example UN 1824 being a cleaning solution in 20l plastic contains says that the limited quantity is 1l and the excepted quantity is E2 with the table giving 30ml as inner packaging and 500ml as outer. You might as well be speaking Chinese to me. Then I also understand there is a 1000 point system. As I was transporting 40l of this stuff I got 40 points so I was under the 1000 points so I could take it without any additional rules.
We have also had to transport UN 1013 being carbon dioxide cylinders. About 10kgs each. So when I look up this information as above how do I know when I have reached my limit and need further training to transport such things. I hope I’ve not confused you too much in my rambeling!
Justin
TruckerJ:
Hi Dave.I’ve tried to read as many posts as I can so hopefully you haven’t already answered this question. It’s more of a general question with exact examples. Simply put I would like to know where I can find out the required information so I can solve my problems.
I work for a consolidation centre dealing with restaurants. We deal with everything from food to kitchen equipment and cleaning products which is where my questions come in.
My understand was that anything with a dangerous goods sticker on it had to be transported with an ADR. As I’m learning this is not the case. I’ve now learnt there are 5(?) groups of dangerous goods. Exempt, limited, expected, ADR and something else. How do I know what I can take without possessing an ADR which I do not have. For example UN 1824 being a cleaning solution in 20l plastic contains says that the limited quantity is 1l and the excepted quantity is E2 with the table giving 30ml as inner packaging and 500ml as outer. You might as well be speaking Chinese to me. Then I also understand there is a 1000 point system. As I was transporting 40l of this stuff I got 40 points so I was under the 1000 points so I could take it without any additional rules.
We have also had to transport UN 1013 being carbon dioxide cylinders. About 10kgs each. So when I look up this information as above how do I know when I have reached my limit and need further training to transport such things. I hope I’ve not confused you too much in my rambeling!
Justin
Hi Justin,
First things first… Are you an employed driver?
If so, then this isn’t your problem because the responsibility for everything in your questions lies with the person sending the goods (= consignor) AND/OR the vehicle owner (= carrier.)
If your company is either (or maybe both) consignor/carrier, then they must appoint a properly qualified Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor (DGSA) which has been law in the UK since 01/01/2000.
Now to your questions…
First we need to get our English sorted as to definitions and meanings.
Hazardous goods have two current labelling systems:
Now we come to ‘dangerous’ goods.
The labelling system for dangerous goods uses square (UN Class) labels set at 45deg (diamond-shaped.)
There are 9 UN Classes.
The above UN Class 3 label also indicates flammability, but this one is for (proper) dangerous goods.
Dangerous goods may be packaged in several ways, depending on how the customer wishes to receive them.
‘Normal’ packages are drums, jerricans, boxes, crates, IBCs etc, which must be labelled using either of the systems above depending on whether the goods are dangerous or merely hazardous. Some packages may have both labelling systems, but us drivers are only concerned with the diamond-shaped UN Class labels which are used for transport.
When packaged dangerous goods bear UN Class labels, there are ‘freebie’ limits to what a non-ADR trained driver may carry.
The ‘freeby’ limit for any particular dangerous goods depends on the severity of danger and the limit is PER VEHICLE LOAD at any one time, regardless of individual consignment size.
For road transport (ADR,) there are five levels of danger (numbered 0-4,) which we call ‘Transport Categories’ (TCs.)
All dangerous goods (regardless of the UN Class number) belong in one of the five transport categories.
Each TC has a ‘freeby’ allowance.
TC 0 = No allowance, ALWAYS fully regulated.
TC 1 = 20Kg/L allowance.
TC 2 = 333Kg/L allowance.
TC 3 = 1,000Kg/L allowance.
TC 4 = No restriction.
The 1,000 point rule only applies when you need to carry dangerous goods in different TCs on board your vehicle at the same time, but still wish to stay sub-ADR limits.
When carrying up to (and including) the relevant limit, ADR doesn’t require a driver to have an ADR licence, but the driver must have had some form of documented ADR awareness training. However, there is no requirement for this to be carried on board the vehicle.
An ADR compliant 2Kg dry powder fire extinguisher is also required.
If the relevant ADR Transport Category ‘freeby’ limit is exceeded, then you’d need an ADR licence + orange plates and a whole load of other Regs would all apply at the same time.
Now we come to Limited Quantities.
SOME dangerous goods may be carried in Limited Quantities (LQs.)
The first thing to realise about LQs is that they are NOT packaged as above, so those limits and conditions I mentioned above DO NOT apply to dangerous goods packaged in LQs. The best way to describe this idea (without being too complicated) is to say that they are packaged as for retail sale over-the-counter to the public in a retail shop.
LQs are a form of exemption from ADR, but that doesn’t mean that all bets are off because you still need to comply with the conditions attaching to the exemption. (Once you’ve achieved that, THEN you’re exempt from the rest of ADR.)
LQs may only be packaged as receptacles in boxes OR on small stretch-wrapped trays.
Different dangerous goods carried as LQs have differing inner receptacle size limits.
Max box weight in all cases = 30 Kg
Max tray weight in all cases = 20Kg
LQ label
ADR doesn’t require a driver to have an ADR licence regardless of the quantity of LQs to be carried, but the driver must have had some form of documented ADR awareness training. However, there is no requirement for this to be carried on board the vehicle.
A vehicle that has a permitted GVW >12t needs a large version of the LQ label (250mm X 250mm and called a placard) to be displayed on the front and rear when carrying >8t of LQs. The driver DOES NOT need an ADR licence, regardless of quantity of LQs carried.
Next is Excepted Quantities (EQs.)
EQs are best thought of as very tiny amounts, such as very small samples.
The biggest of these is 30g (just over an ounce in old money!) so, from your description, I wouldn’t imagine that you carry EQs, but I could be wrong about that.
EQs have a 1,000 PACKAGES limit that cannot be exceeded in any circumstances.
EQ label
The above are all some form of exemption, but here’s the good bit… the exemptions do not compete with each other, so you can have a bit of a mix-and-match as long as all requirements are met.
I hope I’ve clarified some of your wonderings.
Thank you very much you have definitely answered my wondering!
Hi Dave
A question on PSN or product labels are they required at all times when transporting under ADR?
