Dangerous goods advice- UK regs and ADR

[dieseldave]

ROG:
MY GUESS based on very limited knowledge

As the load will be under the dangerous goods by sea regs (cannot remember what that is called !!) and not ADR regs then it seems right

Awaits DD to see if my GUESS is correct

ROG,

You’re spot-on about there being a different set of Regs for dangerous goods being carried by sea.

The Regs are called The International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code, or IMDG for short.

The basics are all the same, such as there a 9 Classes of dangerous goods etc, and many of the requirements are identical to ADR’s requirements for road, but IMDG is best regarded as being somewhat stricter than ADR, so there is usually quite a bit more work for the participants to do in terms of compliance with requirements.

The authorship is different too…
ADR comes from UNECE, whereas IMDG comes from the International Maritime Organisation (IMO.)

The current version of IMDG looks like this:

[dieseldave]

Wheel Nut:
Unless things have tightened up extremely, railheads & ports would accept example 1 of a class three placard with the UN numbers drawn on in black marker pen, in fact many factories gave out blank placards for this very reason.

Blank Kemler halves were also available to enter your own digits. Very handy if you carried lots of different commodities.

Yes Malc, that’s sometimes still the case.

However, there’s the 15 mins engulfment in fire rule coming in and spreading itself around the industry, so now there’s a standard for the markings which might leave those with non-fireproof ink in their felt-tip pens out in the cold if you’ll forgive the pun.

[wheel_nut]

Hmm interesting, is IMDG an annual book or Biannual like ADR?

I ask because my current ADR orange book is 2011 and my previous one was 2009, so Yorkshire logic says I may get a new one next year.

Yes Malc, that’s sometimes still the case.

However, there’s the 15 mins engulfment in fire rule coming in and spreading itself around the industry, so now there’s a standard for the markings which might leave those with non-fireproof ink in their felt-tip pens out in the cold if you’ll forgive the pun.

That would depend on those vinyl placards lasting 15 minutes too. I do remember having to swap the kemler sets to steel plates as we had a mixture of PVC and vinyl covers for them.

[dieseldave]

Wheel Nut:
Hmm interesting, is IMDG an annual book or Biannual like ADR?

I ask because my current ADR orange book is 2011 and my previous one was 2009, so Yorkshire logic says I may get a new one next year.

Malc,

Your Yorkshire logic is correct.

IMDG is biannual, but it comes out when the year has an even number eg. 2010, 2012, 2014 etc.
ADR, RID and ADN are all biannual and come out in odd-numbered years 2009, 2011 and 2013 etc.
IATA DG Regs comes out every year, although the book it’s based on (ICAO Technical Instructions) only comes out biannually.

The 2013 hardcopy version of ADR has a slightly altered appearance:

Wheel Nut:
That would depend on those vinyl placards lasting 15 minutes too. I do remember having to swap the kemler sets to steel plates as we had a mixture of PVC and vinyl covers for them.

The covers are included in the 15mins rule, as is detachment of the plates.

Edited to add:

RID used to come in an A4 ring binder folder like this… :

… but this has now changed to an A5 book that’s as thick as a bible and it’s quite difficult to use because of its small size.

Here’s RID 2011

… and RID 2013

[ubiquitous]

Good Afternoon Gents

Thanks very much for the info, I had seen Tank Containers with Kemler Boards onall four sides and thought that they were overmarked, I now understand why.

Merry Christmas.

[dieseldave]

ROG:
MY GUESS based on very limited knowledge

As the load will be under the dangerous goods by sea regs (cannot remember what that is called !!) and not ADR regs then it seems right

Awaits DD to see if my GUESS is correct

ROG,

Ubiquitous is speaking of a multi-modal journey; so in this case, both ADR and IMDG have to be obeyed, but at different times on the same (overall) journey. In this case, the journey is road-sea-road.

When shipping a tank container from the UK, ADR applies to the UK road-leg of the journey, but it (temporarily) ends at the port.
For travel by sea, IMDG takes over (while ADR has a kip. )
Once off the ship at the port of disembarkation/unloading, then IMDG ceases to have effect, and ADR wakes up and takes over again for onward road travel to the destination.

If the sea journey happens to end in a non-ADR country (eg. USA, NZ, Australia,) then whatever national dangerous goods laws they have there will then apply.

[wheel_nut]

dieseldave:

ROG:
MY GUESS based on very limited knowledge

As the load will be under the dangerous goods by sea regs (cannot remember what that is called !!) and not ADR regs then it seems right

Awaits DD to see if my GUESS is correct

ROG,

Ubiquitous is speaking of a multi-modal journey; so in this case, both ADR and IMDG have to be obeyed, but at different times on the same (overall) journey. In this case, the journey is road-sea-road.

When shipping a tank container from the UK, ADR applies to the UK road-leg of the journey, but it (temporarily) ends at the port.
For travel by sea, IMDG takes over (while ADR has a kip. )
Once off the ship at the port of disembarkation/unloading, then IMDG ceases to have effect, and ADR wakes up and takes over again for onward road travel to the destination.

If the sea journey happens to end in a non-ADR country (eg. USA, NZ, Australia,) then whatever national dangerous goods laws they have there will then apply.

Oh how many times have I heard the cry about someone “running bent” because they were seen ripping labels off on the ferry, and all because the load was only hazardous at sea, a hazard label of any kind is a guaranteed hoist in France or Belgium, best not advertise more than you need, eh?

[wheel_nut]

dieseldave:

Wheel Nut:
Hmm interesting, is IMDG an annual book or Biannual like ADR?

I ask because my current ADR orange book is 2011 and my previous one was 2009, so Yorkshire logic says I may get a new one next year.

Malc,

Your Yorkshire logic is correct.

IMDG is biannual, but it comes out when the year has an even number eg. 2010, 2012, 2014 etc.
ADR, RID and ADN are all biannual and come out in odd-numbered years 2009, 2011 and 2013 etc.
IATA DG Regs comes out every year, although the book it’s based on (ICAO Technical Instructions) only comes out biannually.

The 2013 hardcopy version of ADR has a slightly altered appearance:
3

Wheel Nut:
That would depend on those vinyl placards lasting 15 minutes too. I do remember having to swap the kemler sets to steel plates as we had a mixture of PVC and vinyl covers for them.

The covers are included in the 15mins rule, as is detachment of the plates.

I have been browsing and discovered a few new placards, the one with a silhouette of a mans body with chest wounds looks serious

[wheelyb]

Diesel Dave, are there any crib card type aids for the most common type of materials carried? Or even for all the materials? Similar to mileage getter at the back of maps?
Ie: I got this much of one substance, so much of another so i check my ‘crib card’ n it tells me if I’m in or out of scope n what codes or hazard plates I should display?

I know it would be a lot of info but maybe it could be on a disc on top of a disc (x2,3 or even 4) so u can turn them to marry up with what u have, type/ quantity etc n the answer is shown on the disc. Similar to Tachodisc companies driver hour guard, but for ADR.

I did my course in aug 2008 so up for renewal but only had to use it once, even then I wasn’t sure what I was lookin at or what needed to happen!! In scope? out of scope? Orange plate required? Etc. so I’m gonna do a full pukka course again, 7 core packages and tanks coz skill fade is ■■■■■. Probably pay more attention this time =-( with lots of note taking.

[dieseldave]

wheelyb:
Diesel Dave, are there any crib card type aids for the most common type of materials carried? Or even for all the materials? Similar to mileage getter at the back of maps?
Ie: I got this much of one substance, so much of another so i check my ‘crib card’ n it tells me if I’m in or out of scope n what codes or hazard plates I should display?

I know it would be a lot of info but maybe it could be on a disc on top of a disc (x2,3 or even 4) so u can turn them to marry up with what u have, type/ quantity etc n the answer is shown on the disc. Similar to Tachodisc companies driver hour guard, but for ADR.

I did my course in aug 2008 so up for renewal but only had to use it once, even then I wasn’t sure what I was lookin at or what needed to happen!! In scope? out of scope? Orange plate required? Etc. so I’m gonna do a full pukka course again, 7 core packages and tanks coz skill fade is ■■■■■. Probably pay more attention this time =-( with lots of note taking.

Hi wheelyb,

I think I understand why you’re asking this, but the answer is that it’s not your responsibility if you’re an employed driver.

The dangerous substances and articles that are authorised for carriage occupy over 3,000 UN numbers in the Dangerous Goods List.
Each UN number may have one (or more) ADR Secial Provisions or other requirements that need to be obeyed.
Then we come to the substances that are mixtures and solutions, whose rules can vary depending on % strength/concentration. Some substances can have 10 different UN numbers that have slightly different rules for carriage.
Also needing some consideration are the sizes and quantities of packages of ‘stuff’ to be carried, but again these factors can be varied from standard by the fact that a Special Provision applies.

In the UK, almost all carriers (= vehicle owners) and consignors (= sender of goods) need to appoint a properly qualified DGSA whose job it is to advise the company on its activities in connection with ADR. The DGSA can then tailor the advice to the company’s activities and show the boss how to comply with ADR.
The DGSA does not need to be directly employed by the company, because the requirement can be fulfilled by having a contracted arrangement with an ‘outsider.’
Once a DGSA knows which ‘stuff’ a company commonly carries, it’s then possible to produce a crib-sheet of sorts.

This idea of properly qualified DGSAs has been a UK requirement since 01/01/2000.

Many bosses try to foist the responsibility onto drivers, but IMHO this based on their ignorance and is very unfair.
It used to be the driver’s job to decide whether full ADR applied to a particular job, or not, but this ended on 09/05/2004.

Please don’t worry about this, cos it’s a thing that your boss needs to get sorted.

[wheelyb]

Thanks diesel dave.
In that case, why do we need ADR licences if its the responsibility of the employer/consignor to ensure we meet the law with carriage of ADR? is the licence just a case of ‘incase’ something untoward happens and we need to deal with it and inform authorites whats on board (fire service, police, tunnels etc)?

The ADR 2013 book you talk about further up this page, is that deep DGSA stuff or could average joe use it as reference (bedtime reading)?

[wheel_nut]

wheelyb:
Thanks diesel dave.
In that case, why do we need ADR licences if its the responsibility of the employer/consignor to ensure we meet the law with carriage of ADR? is the licence just a case of ‘incase’ something untoward happens and we need to deal with it and inform authorites whats on board (fire service, police, tunnels etc)?

The ADR 2013 book you talk about further up this page, is that deep DGSA stuff or could average joe use it as reference (bedtime reading)?

I doubt I am the average Joe, but it does serve for interesting reading for me, although they are expensive, unless you know someone…

Although I haven’t tried bedtime reading, they are too big for that

The ADR licence shows you have done the course and understand the dangers, in Continental Europe you have to show it before you get loaded, in the UK they seem a little more lax about it.

[wheelyb]

Cheers Wheel nut,
with all the legislation about ADR i shouldve expected a encyclopedic size book . If im carrying ADR i like to know what it is, a bit of knowledge about it before hand etc, not DGSA Diesel Dave standards, just enough in case VOSA asks ‘what u got on drive?’ and i can say its ‘1000ltrs Paraquat sir, hope it dont rain hehe’ (it does react with water dosent it?).

id just like a little A5 booklet with maybe 30/40 even 50 of the most common sustances carried, one substance per page, petrol, diesel, sulphuric acid, Adblue, etc etc, with a small paragraph about what it actually is, and youre allowed to carry this in this quantity in this/these containers/tanks/packages without attracting regs, after that you need to carry x,y,z.

Could be a money spinner for yourself or Diesei Dave! id buy one to use as reference.

[dieseldave]

wheelyb:
Thanks diesel dave.
In that case, why do we need ADR licences if its the responsibility of the employer/consignor to ensure we meet the law with carriage of ADR? is the licence just a case of ‘incase’ something untoward happens and we need to deal with it and inform authorites whats on board (fire service, police, tunnels etc)?

Hi wheelyb,

Yes mate, that about the size of it, but there’s all the other stuff on an ADR course too, such as security, segregation and the knowledge of the dangers presented by the different UN Classes.

wheelyb:
The ADR 2013 book you talk about further up this page, is that deep DGSA stuff or could average joe use it as reference (bedtime reading)?

ADR 2013 trivia facts:

The two books together are approx 2.5 inches thick, have approx 1,300 pages and weigh approx 3.4Kg.
I’d describe them as encyclopaedic too.

A very detailed understanding of how those two books work is needed in order to gain the DGSA qualification, which is a minimum of three written exams including the legal reference from within ADR for your answer.

For example, the answer to your question is that the carrier’s duty to deal with whether (and which bits of) ADR applies is found at:

CDG 2009 Reg.5 and ADR 1.4.2.2.1 (a) and (b)

…whilst the duty to appoint a DGSA is at ADR 1.8.3.1

There are many reasons why a little booklet could only go some of the way to what you’re looking for, but the biggest issue here is that there are far too many variables. IMHO, that’s the reason for why there’s a requirement for a DGSA, and a requirement upon the DGSA to “advise” and “monitor” the company with bespoke advice tailored to the specific situation.

IMHO, anybody who tried to write such a book as you wish for would have immense difficulty in making it accurate, however there are Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) or Tremcards for your other concern like what happens if…?

[dieseldave]

wheelyb:
Cheers Wheel nut,
with all the legislation about ADR i shouldve expected a encyclopedic size book . If im carrying ADR i like to know what it is, a bit of knowledge about it before hand etc, not DGSA Diesel Dave standards, just enough in case VOSA asks ‘what u got on drive?’ and i can say its ‘1000ltrs Paraquat sir, hope it dont rain hehe’ (it does react with water dosent it?).

Hi wheelyb,

There is some kind of joined-up thinking going on somewhere, because one of the many responsibilities of the consignor (= sender) of dangerous goods is to inform the carrier (your boss) of the exact nature of the load, including what it is, how it’s packaged, how much of it there is etc, etc.
This must be done in a way prescribed in ADR 5.4.1.

The carrier is then supposed to use this info to decide whether (or how much of) ADR applies to any given job since it’s his vehicle and driver that’s going to shift the consignor’s ‘stuff’ to its destination.

The responsibilities flowing from this are then pretty clear cut… the consignor might be telling porkies, but he’ll answer for that. The carrier might not have all of the required equipment on board the vehicle, so that’ll be down to him. There’s very little of ADR that’s actually the driver’s responsibility on UK work.

[wheel_nut]

A very handy book used to be available from the Dartford Tunnel, they were once free but now you have to order them and pay for them. They give every UN Number and a brief description on the hazards.

merseytunnels.co.uk/nossl/da … rgoods.php

This is a helpful tool although I cannot vouch for its accuracy. I put in UN1166 and got these results.

Again most of this information is not necessary for the driver. The fire brigade will read the hazard placards from a distance, then they will come prepared to evacuate & extinguish with fog, spray, foam or whatever is necessary.

[saratoga]

So I’m doing a bit of personal updating at the moment after a possible hopeful job enquiry working actually using my ADR licence.

I was loaned a battered (via muddy puddle) copy of a booklet which is quite handy and so I’m trying to get my own copy. It’s part of the NDGTC and is a ‘Dangerous Goods Handbook’. £5 from them with a Manchester number but the printers domain is up for grabs, which is never a good sign.

The booklet wasn’t that old, less than 6 months I guess… A bit of googling has got me their phone number so I’ll ring them tomorrow but from what I saw it’s a helpful thing to have with me

Also, I found a copy of the EAC 2011 online… ISTR that that one updates every 2 years so perhaps another will be out soon?

EAC List 2011 from ‘The NCEC’

[dieseldave]

Saratoga:
So I’m doing a bit of personal updating at the moment after a possible hopeful job enquiry working actually using my ADR licence.

I was loaned a battered (via muddy puddle) copy of a booklet which is quite handy and so I’m trying to get my own copy. It’s part of the NDGTC and is a ‘Dangerous Goods Handbook’. £5 from them with a Manchester number but the printers domain is up for grabs, which is never a good sign.

Hi Saratoga,

NDGTC have their handbooks printed by an external printing company, so whether the printing company’s domain is up for grabs isn’t really relevant to anything.

NDGTC produces their handbook in A4 and A5 sizes, and they’re usually given out by NDGTC members to the guys on an ADR course to meet the requirement that a candidate has something to take away with them.

Saratoga:
The booklet wasn’t that old, less than 6 months I guess… A bit of googling has got me their phone number so I’ll ring them tomorrow but from what I saw it’s a helpful thing to have with me

Yes, the NDGTC handbook is a useful guide, but it will never be completely definitive due to the large number of Special Provisions (SPs) that ‘adjust’ the ADR Regs to suit a particular set of circumstances. The use of SPs is done on a substance by substance basis, so anybody placing complete reliance on such a thin book could come very unstuck if they think that the complexity of ADR can be reduced to such a size.

Saratoga:
Also, I found a copy of the EAC 2011 online… ISTR that that one updates every 2 years so perhaps another will be out soon?

EAC List 2011 from ‘The NCEC’

Yes, I’ve checked the link and found that it does indeed lead to the current DGEAC List.
However, I’m mystified to understand what possible use the DGEAC List would be to a driver■■?

What would you need it for?

[saratoga]

dieseldave:

Saratoga:
Also, I found a copy of the EAC 2011 online… ISTR that that one updates every 2 years so perhaps another will be out soon?

EAC List 2011 from ‘The NCEC’

Yes, I’ve checked the link and found that it does indeed lead to the current DGEAC List.
However, I’m mystified to understand what possible use the DGEAC List would be to a driver■■?

What would you need it for?

I didn’t say I needed it, just that I found it There is plenty of stuff I’ve come across on the web that it’s nice to know it’s there but actually finding a practical use for it…

[dieseldave]

Saratoga:
I didn’t say I needed it, just that I found it There is plenty of stuff I’ve come across on the web that it’s nice to know it’s there but actually finding a practical use for it…

It was the “personal updating” and your mention of the DGEAC List bits that got me wondering.

My best tip for an employed driver is to get them to realise how little of ADR is actually their responsibility.