Peter K:
Do you mind if I send you private mail?
Pete.
No Pete, I don’t mind at all. In fact I’ve beaten you to it.
You have a PM
dieseldave:
Hi Mr Flibble,This substance is called:
UN 2984 HYDROGEN PEROXIDE, AQUEOUS SOLUTION, 5.1, PGIII.(snip useful stuff)
Thanks for all of that. It confirmed my suspicion that we should refuse to carry it.
dieseldave:
I’m guessing that there’s a typo at work here MrFlibble, [because class 1.5 is an explosive] OR the UN number is wrong. My guess is that the label you saw looked like this:
(With OR without the words “OXIDISING AGENT.”)
Not a typo - faulty memory
I’m pretty sure that the UN number is correct - H2O2 makes sense, as it’s laundry bleach. I remembered the “5.1” incorrectly.
dieseldave:
Does this help??
Yes, lots thanks.
I have a question-
Were there any changes to the CDG Regs in Jan 07?
A guy in my work says that since then, there are no “limited quantities” and that if you are carrying anything (even items under 333kg etc etc) that they must have full ADR, plates spill kits etc.
Basically he’s saying that you’re either ADR or not, with no exemptions.
Is he right? 
GlesgaBill:
I have a question-Were there any changes to the CDG Regs in Jan 07?
A guy in my work says that since then, there are no “limited quantities” and that if you are carrying anything (even items under 333kg etc etc) that they must have full ADR, plates spill kits etc.
Basically he’s saying that you’re either ADR or not, with no exemptions.
Is he right?
Hi GlesgaBill, I’m afraid your guy has got it all wrong.
Ask him for the source of his info, meanwhile I’ll guarantee that it isn’t CDG 2007.
CDG 2007 contains 95 Regulations and 9 Schedules, but not a great deal has actually changed for drivers.
Your company is required to inform you of any changes that affect their operations, and your DGSA is supposed to see to it that that happens.
The notion of Limited Quantities (LQs) is described above in my answer to MrFlibble (please read that) and the load limits per vehicle are described above in my answers to 8-wheels, MrFlibble and Jon Lad.
Just to clarify this even further, LQs require no action from the driver – No orange plates, no spill kit, no ADR licence— full load?? just load and go— no question about it. The whole idea of LQs is that for SOME dangerous goods that actually present only a small danger, there is a way to carry them without being affected by the Regs. The best way to think of this idea is that it is a limited quantity per package. If that’s complied with, then there’s no load limit. If the LQ exemptions apply to the load you’re carrying, the boxes will be marked as in the pictures above.
When the “stuff” ISN’T packed in LQs, there are limits of either 0kg/lit, or 20kg/lit, or 333kg/lit or 1,000kg/lit depending on how dangerous the “stuff” is. If you’re loaded to below the appropriate limit for the “stuff” that you’re carrying, then all you need is an “awarenes” of dangerous goods and a 2Kg dry powder fire extinguisher if it’s a UK job. If your load exceeds these freebie limits, then ADR applies in full and everything you described would then be required plus some other requirements depending on which “stuff” you’re carrying.
Just to clarify even further, there is NO connection between LQs and the idea of load limits before the Regs apply in full.
If the answer to your question isn’t clear from carefully reading the above and looking at the pictures, please find out the UN number and name of the substance, the class and the packing group. The size and type of package(s) would also help. Then I’ll be able to give you a good and full answer. Please let me know whether this answers your question??
Yes Dave…that about sums it up i reckon!
GlesgaBill:
Yes Dave…that about sums it up i reckon!
Hi GlesgaBill, all that effort and you write me 9 words 
Did it seem understandable that ADR doesn’t heap loads of Regs on you right from the off, if what you’re carrying isn’t awfully dangerous??
IMHO, they’ve got the balance about right, because really dangerous “stuff” is heavily regulated pretty well straight away. Did you put your guy at work right on the principal of how it works??
Hi Dave…i answered your thread putting on a shirt, eating boiled egg & toast and halfway out the door this morning…apologies! 
What you replied in your thread was my understanding & might i add, that of my ADR instructor (i’m halfway through my course just now) so i reckoned the guy was a bit of a blowhard to start with.
I also told a guy who works in our office (with haz packages etc) about what he said his reply was “He’s a balloon…he has his own set of rules in his head until we keep him right”
It has learned me not to listen to “the bloke in the yard” and taught me that finding out the info required from the proper channels is always the best & correct course of action-and in this instance, many thanks go to you Dave for providing the proper insight.
Having said all that, can i safely assume the following?-
-
Limited quantities are alive and well
-
The 1000kg, 333 Kg and 20 Kg load limit still apply (ps…does ppe, spill kits etc apply here?)
-
Anything above those limits require full ADR, VTC PPE Etc
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge! 
GlesgaBill
pps…i never saw that blowhard guy today…i think he’s probably too hard headed to listen to anything other than his interpretation…
GlesgaBill:
Hi Dave…i answered your thread putting on a shirt, eating boiled egg & toast and halfway out the door this morning…apologies!
Cheers for that Bill. I thought it was something like that. I’d noticed the time of your post and thought “he’s on his way to work.” Not a bad guess 
GlesgaBill:
What you replied in your thread was my understanding & might i add, that of my ADR instructor (i’m halfway through my course just now) so i reckoned the guy was a bit of a blowhard to start with.
I think that proves that the guy in the yard either doesn’t have ADR, or he didn’t listen. (I can’t think of a third option )
GlesgaBill:
I also told a guy who works in our office (with haz packages etc) about what he said his reply was “He’s a balloon…he has his own set of rules in his head until we keep him right”
Now you can see why one works in the office and the other works in the yard.
GlesgaBill:
It has learned me not to listen to “the bloke in the yard” and taught me that finding out the info required from the proper channels is always the best & correct course of action-and in this instance, many thanks go to you Dave for providing the proper insight.
Hey, no probs Bill. That’s what I do. Are you doing your ADR at Ritchies??
GlesgaBill:
Having said all that, can i safely assume the following?-
- Limited quantities are alive and well
Yes, with a full description and pics above. (Your instructor probably won’t have time to go into as much detail as I did above.) Please remember that LQs are nothing to do with the load limits for the transport categories. In fact, if you have a mixed load of LQs and other stuff, you can ignore the LQ stuff altogether, because it just doesn’t count towards any load total.
GlesgaBill:
2. The 1000kg, 333 Kg and 20 Kg load limit still apply (ps…does ppe, spill kits etc apply here?)
Yes, but there are five limits in total: 0, 20, 333, 1,000 and unlimited. Those are the five transport categories (TCs.) Once you’re carrying more than the limit for the type of goods you’re carrying, then ADR applies in full, so those are the limits for: orange boards, ADR licence, Instructions in writing, spill kit, 2 extinguishers, PPE, chock, torch, self-standing warning signs and Hi-viz etc.
All the Regs you heard about on Monday (IATA, IMDG ADR and RID) use Packing Groups (PGs) to express the danger presented by the goods. ADR (only) extends this idea into the 5 TCs I mentioned. That way, the most dangerous goods are fully regulated instantly, then there are bigger limits as the danger decreases. The law is very clear that it is your always your boss’ responsibility to tell you when the Regs apply.
GlesgaBill:
3. Anything above those limits require full ADR, VTC PPE Etc
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge!
That’s it Bill, you’ve got it. Nice one mate.
GlesgaBill
GlesgaBill:
pps…i never saw that blowhard guy today…i think he’s probably too hard headed to listen to anything other than his interpretation…
I’ve got nothing against the “guy”, but I’d suggest you ignore his opinions on ADR. I’m convinced that your own ideas will be nearer reality!! Let me know how you got on in the exams?? The way it’s running, you’ll know in about 3-4 weeks.
Hi again, Dave
I think i’ve got the gist of this now…but i still have a nagging doubt (even after reading the CDG Document) :D:D
OK…here goes-
LQ’s = No problem…i understand that…no additional stuff needed.
Load over the “small threshold limit” = Full ADR applies…Tremcard,Boards, Chock…PPE Extinguishers, etc etc etc I understand that.
“Small threshold limit” = This is where i’m unsure. If i have a load or item(s) under the threshold limit, what (if any) other items do i need to carry to stay legal?
Slightly puzzled,
GlesgaBill
GlesgaBill:
Hi again, DaveI think i’ve got the gist of this now…but i still have a nagging doubt (even after reading the CDG Document)
OK…here goes-
LQ’s = No problem…i understand that…no additional stuff needed.
Nothing needed on your part whatsoever.
GlesgaBill:
Load over the “small threshold limit” = Full ADR applies…Tremcard,Boards, Chock…PPE Extinguishers, etc etc etc I understand that.
Yes, we have a winner!!
GlesgaBill:
“Small threshold limit” = This is where i’m unsure. If i have a load or item(s) under the threshold limit, what (if any) other items do i need to carry to stay legal?
If you’re on a UK journey, all you’d need is 1 X 2Kg dry powder fire extinguisher, with the date of the next examination/inspection marked, and it needs to be fitted with a seal and pin. If any of that is missing, you ■■■ belongs to VOSA and you win a PG9 until it’s sorted (You might also be prosecuted, because you were supposed to check that before you set-off, so the defence below wouldn’t be available to you) Then it’s like LQs, you don’t need anything else.
If you’re doing an international journey (that’s when UK Regs don’t apply) you need the extinguisher as above
- a “transport document” containing at least:
the UN number, Proper Shipping Name, class and packing group; (Written in that order. )
the number size and type of packages;
the total Kgs/Lit of the load;
and the name(s) and address(es) of the consignor(s) and consignee(s)
The document doesn’t have to be too fancy, but the required info must be on it.
GlesgaBill:
Slightly puzzled,GlesgaBill
Be puzzled no longer mate
Here’s two other tips for you:
- It is always your boss’ job to tell you which Regs apply, to what extent, and when.
(= if in doubt at a customer’s premises, phone your boss before setting off.) - UK law (this one includes Scotland) provides you with a defence if you can show that the offence is somebody else’s responsibility, ie, somebody lied to you, but there are several conditions to that.
Hi folks!
For anyone who is doing the ADR:
unece.org/trans/danger/publi … entsE.html
…this link takes you directly to the official UNECE (United Nations Economic Commision for Europe) page. In other words; they are the desk-job nutters who think up all the rules in the first place.
To quote them: “From this page it is possible to view and download the full text of the ADR 2007, applicable as from 1 January 2007”.
I did my ADR a few years ago, and like anyone else who has been through it, I can attest that the week’s course is MINDBLOWING. There is so much information blasted at you that you feel as though your brain will explode.
If you read through the regs before you go on the course, on the other hand, then it could change the week into a complete breeze, as you sit there with a smug grin on your face, while you nonchalantly sip your coffee and leaf through your favourite truckers’ magazine!
All the best!
manuel:
…this link takes you directly to the official UNECE (United Nations Economic Commision for Europe) page.To quote them: “From this page it is possible to view and download the full text of the ADR 2007, applicable as from 1 January 2007”.
That’s perfectly true manuel, but ADR is 2 law books of 650 (ish) pages each.
ADR comes in 9 parts. Most of it is completely irrelevant to drivers.
Anybody doing as you suggest would then face the problem that they wouldn’t know how it all works. (Interface with IMDG, IATA and RID, since those sets of Regs aren’t published on the Internet.)
manuel:
If you read through the regs before you go on the course, on the other hand, then it could change the week into a complete breeze,
So you’d have everybody read 1,300 ish pages of Regs, before receiving a course that you describe as “mindblowing”■■ 
I’m wondering how the guys would have time to do that…
For anybody considering following manuel’s advice, you wouldn’t know the answers to all of the exam questions, because you wouldn’t have a clue about the UK Regs, or the security requirements as issued by the DfT, or the section called “behaviour in tunnels,” or, or, or…
manuel:
as you sit there with a smug grin on your face, while you nonchalantly sip your coffee and leaf through your favourite truckers’ magazine!
The smug grin might indicate confidence, so I wouldn’t have a problem with that. Reading a magazine might count as disruptive behaviour, with an outcome at the instructor’s discretion. Of course, if it’s your money then it’s your choice. If a company sent you on the course, you might have trouble explaining to your boss if the instructor decided to sling you out.
So manuel, using your system, could you explain the UK Regs and when they apply?? (BTW, you won’t find that in ADR ) You’ll already know that ADR is for international road journeys, since I guess you’ve taken your own advice and already read it, but which bits do we do in a particularly “British” way?? You’ll also know that the DfT has the CA function for the UK and that they set the course content and syllabus. That means that the DfT says what is or isn’t to be taught.
I’ll guarantee that it’s far less than you’d have the guys read…
Finally manuel, if you did your ADR course before summer '04 you wouldn’t believe the changes that have been implemented since then.
For instance, a driver’s responsibilities are far less than they used to be.
I hope that the guys spot that your post is probably a wind-up. I did.
I’ve taken the ADR Packages course recently (as mentioned) and i’m currently awaiting my result.
Packges (2,3,4,5,6, 8 & 9)
For those about to do the course i did, i can offer the following-
I found the test to be easier than expected-the tests themselves were in a multiple choice format-so you should pretty much be able to-
a. Recognise some really easy common sense questions that will most likely appear.
b. Use a process of elimination for the slightly trickier questions that may appear.
Listen to your instructor and do some homework when possible…i done about half an hour each night and i think i done alright. I will say, remember your class symbols & numbers…work out a system for remembering them (EFFFOTRCM) and you won’t find the questions so daunting when they come before you.
I only found maybe 2 or 3 questions tricky out of my whole test…i thought about them a few more times then used logic & reasoning to get to what i thought was right.
It ain’t rocket science, but just listen and use yer noodle best you can!
That’s advice from a layman…but i’m sure DieselDave will be able to expand slightly on what the best approach is to the course(s), but don’t be overawed. I actually found it very informative & interesting & not just a classroom excercise.
Hi GlesgaBill, I’d say you’ve given very good advice indeed mate.
I wouldn’t add to, or alter one word of it. You’ve even pinched one of my sayings 
It ain’t rocket science
Cheers Dave!
ps…thanks for the help throughout…here’s hoping i get a pass/VTC
GlesgaBill:
Cheers Dave!ps…thanks for the help throughout…here’s hoping i get a pass/VTC
Hey, no problem helping GlesgaBill, that’s what I do.
From what you’ve written above, I’m quietly confident for you
If you contact the training provider in a couple of weeks, they’ll know whether you’ve passed, but you must wait for your VTC to arrive, and have the original with you at all times when carrying a load that’s subject to the Regs. Photocopies are NOT an option.
a little tip, on multiple choice, cover choice of answers over try not even to look at them until you have read question think then uncover possible answers one will match with what you were thinking before you looked at possible answers
fuse:
a little tip, on multiple choice, cover choice of answers over try not even to look at them until you have read question think then uncover possible answers one will match with what you were thinking before you looked at possible answers
That’s a good tip fuse, but IMHO it’s far better to concentrate on putting the right answer to the right question on the answer sheet, especially if you skip a question and come back to it later. I advise that using the photocard part of your driving licence to reveal the next question number on the answer sheet is best for that purpose.
One common reason for failing is forgetting to do that, and then getting the rest of the answers out of sync with the question numbers…
If you do that, you’ll end up with a very low score indeed.
My bosses like the re-sit fees though
There have been a few debates about this recently at my workplace, I was wondering if someone in the know could clear it up?
Which one of the following statements is true?
We are only talking 1.1s here.
-
Orange plates should be shown when carrying ANY 1.1s
-
Orange plates should be shown only when carrying over 50kgs of 1.1s and carrying a second man.
Thanks!
theghostofcain:
There have been a few debates about this recently at my workplace, I was wondering if someone in the know could clear it up?Which one of the following statements is true?
We are only talking 1.1s here.
Orange plates should be shown when carrying ANY 1.1s
Orange plates should be shown only when carrying over 50kgs of 1.1s and carrying a second man.
Thanks!
Hi, I’m afraid I’ll need the compatibility letter and UN Number before I can answer that.
Just the fact that it’s 1.1s isn’t enough info to give you a good answer.
It’s a very good question, and there are some variables involved, so I won’t engage in guesswork.
Also, I’ll need to know whether it’s a UK or international journey, because the UK doesn’t use exactly the same limits as ADR for all 1.1s. (It depends on the compatibiliy letter and UN Number )