hi
i am currently working for a large (to remain unnamed) logistics company. lately they have started to get silly about start times and critically: who decides how much daily break you are to have? they tell me that they decide whether i have an 11 or a 9 hour break. I’m sure its up to me as the driver, just need something concrete to take to the boss. also, they are now saying that if we have two breaks during a day, unless we use our 10th hour, they will deduct that time from hours worked! anyone got any advice?
Daily rest is down to you.
Ken.
daily rest is up to the driver!
Depends if tramping or not? During week I work max hours and take 3 9hrs every week while away. I would’nt want to be hanging about for 11hrs every day when away, not earning money and wasting time.
Day work I would prefer 11hrs off though.
Was sure a few years ago a court case decided on the side of the company stating that the company could reasonable expect the driver to reduce his daily rest as long as it was legal - maybe wrong I’ve slept since!!! Or maybe it was just an urban myth told to us by James Irlam planners!
It’s unfortunate that 9 hours isn’t really enough time off if you are coming back to the yard and going home, but sleeping on the road it is more than enough.
I’d say it wouldn’t be unreasonable for an employer to expect you to use the reduced daily rest of 9 hours, up to 3 times between weekly rests, in accordance with the drivers hours rules. (Assuming that is stil what it says, I haven’t been keeping up).
Depends how much of a human being your boss is, but I doubt you’d have much success kicking up about it.
war1974:
daily rest is up to the driver!
Can’t you point me to the place in the regulations it says that…
switchlogic:
war1974:
daily rest is up to the driver!
Can’t you point me to the place in the regulations it says that…
I doubt it exists, however, there are many court cases that have stated that a driver needs adequate rest. 9hrs between shifts at base is not adequate rest in most circumstances as by the time you have sorted paperwork, got home, spent a bit of time with the family, meal, shower, news, bed and then also lost the time to get up, wash, cuppa, get to yard etc, which is nothing if already in the truck, you are lucky if you have managed 5 hrs kip.
Remember that case about a land-rover towing a trailer that ended up on a railway line off the A1, they went into great detail about how he had been on the internet and not had enough sleep. Would your boss want to answer why you hadn’t had enough!
I won’t do 9 hrs at base, end of!
Wldfire, can you show me where this fact is stated? I’ve only ever read that it ‘can’ or ‘may’ be reduced. both always means to me, if I want to. If I asked you, “Can you lend me £20”, do you legally have to?
If you have a reduced rest available the company are not breaking any laws if they plan you to use it. As far as the tacho regulations go the company are required to schedule the work so it can be done within the regulations and reduced rest periods are part of those regulations. So, under the tacho regs you have no right to refuse and the company are within their rights to plan your work making use of any reduced rest periods.
You could always refuse under health and safety grounds and it would be a bit daft of the company to insist you still reduced, they would leave themselves wide open if anything happens that could be put down to tiredness. However, try that too often and the company could get rid of you as being unsuitable for the job and you wouldn’t have much of a leg to stand on.
This is the relevant bit from the tacho regulations, 561/2006. Chapter II it refers to is the section that deals with driving times, breaks and rest periods
Article 10
2. A transport undertaking shall organise the work of
drivers referred to in paragraph 1 in such a way that the
drivers are able to comply with Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85
and Chapter II of this Regulation. The transport undertaking
shall properly instruct the driver and shall make regular
checks to ensure that Regulation (EEC) No 3821/85 and
Chapter II of this Regulation are complied with.
DoYouMeanMe?:
switchlogic:
war1974:
daily rest is up to the driver!
Can’t you point me to the place in the regulations it says that…
I doubt it exists, however, there are many court cases that have stated that a driver needs adequate rest. 9hrs between shifts at base is not adequate rest in most circumstances as by the time you have sorted paperwork, got home, spent a bit of time with the family, meal, shower, news, bed and then also lost the time to get up, wash, cuppa, get to yard etc, which is nothing if already in the truck, you are lucky if you have managed 5 hrs kip.
Remember that case about a land-rover towing a trailer that ended up on a railway line off the A1, they went into great detail about how he had been on the internet and not had enough sleep. Would your boss want to answer why you hadn’t had enough!
I won’t do 9 hrs at base, end of!
Wldfire, can you show me where this fact is stated? I’ve only ever read that it ‘can’ or ‘may’ be reduced. both always means to me, if I want to. If I asked you, “Can you lend me £20”, do you legally have to?
i am sorry but you are wrong, as coffee say’s if its legal the company can plan work to take into account reduced breaks 
DoYouMeanMe?:
Wldfire, can you show me where this fact is stated? I’ve only ever read that it ‘can’ or ‘may’ be reduced. both always means to me, if I want to.
The rules are not just for drivers, they are also for companies. So, a company ‘can’ or ‘may’ make use of the reduced rest option in their planning if they want to.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_Theme_files/Goods_vehicles_tachograph_hours_1111_3.pdf
A driver may reduce his daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours
Note, A driver, not the gaffer, TM or other person, it states driver! Then we can move onto the word may which, unless written as part of a statute (order) means to have the choice.
I’ll stick with that. I still won’t do 9’s at home. Emergency maybe, ■■■■ poor planning, no chance!
podgerjones:
hi
i am currently working for a large (to remain unnamed) logistics company. lately they have started to get silly about start times and critically: who decides how much daily break you are to have? they tell me that they decide whether i have an 11 or a 9 hour break. I’m sure its up to me as the driver, just need something concrete to take to the boss. also, they are now saying that if we have two breaks during a day, unless we use our 10th hour, they will deduct that time from hours worked! anyone got any advice?
Like most are saying its down to the company but every now and then you maybe can refuse a 9 and take 11 off but you might not get away with it too often, how much do you value your job ?
The rules clearly state it is down to the driver.
If it said ’ The rest may be reduced’ or ‘The company may reduce your daily rest’ that would be different. It doesn’t, people are assuming what it means instead of doing what a certain person on here normally insists on saying, READ WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS!
DoYouMeanMe?:
The rules clearly state it is down to the driver.
If it said ’ The rest may be reduced’ or ‘The company may reduce your daily rest’ that would be different. It doesn’t, people are assuming what it means instead of doing what a certain person on here normally insists on saying, READ WHAT IT ACTUALLY SAYS!
Like I said you can say no, but how many times is the gaffer going to wear it ?
Every time with me BB. As I’ve said, if it was an emergency or something then I might bend to help, put planning a 9 at home would leave him with a late load and it has happened before, although to be fair, most of the people I work for now would accept (and expect) “NO!”
Any company which insists on trying this, respects it’s drivers and public safety so little doesn’t deserve to be in haulage! Some drivers could live a couple of hours from base!
If you’re not happy about it just look for another job.
They can ask you to do 3 reduced rests of 9 hours per week legally & two 10 hour drives. You could tell them you’re too tired to do it and they may not be able to sack you for that right away but I wouldn’t think your long term job prospects wouldn’t be that good from then on, depends on the firm though and how much you can get away with.
All this, “the driver decides” is just pure bull. If it’s legal, the firm can reasonably ask & expect you to do it, depends on your relationship with the firm again though, each case will be different based on how much you want the job, your personal expectations of the job and so forth.
The bit in the OP about deducting for a 2nd break unless you use the 10th hour drive sounds fair enough to me. Most firms don’t pay breaks anyway.
DoYouMeanMe?:
The rules clearly state it is down to the driver.
No they don’t. The interpretation of the rules you have found might make it seem like that but if you look at article 8 of the actual EC 561/2006 regulations it makes no reference whatsoever as to who decides.
EC 561/2006 Article 8:
-
A driver shall take daily and weekly rest periods.
-
Within each period of 24 hours after the end of the
previous daily rest period or weekly rest period a driver shall
have taken a new daily rest period.
If the portion of the daily rest period which falls within that
24 hour period is at least nine hours but less than 11 hours,
then the daily rest period in question shall be regarded as a
reduced daily rest period.
-
A daily rest period may be extended to make a regular
weekly rest period or a reduced weekly rest period.
-
A driver may have at most three reduced daily rest
periods between any two weekly rest periods.
So essentially if it’s legal to reduce then your employer is perfectly entitled to ask you to do so. You can refuse on the grounds of safety but if I was your employer and you did so more than once in a while then I would consider you to be unable to carry out your duties to the required standard and you would find yourself looking for a new job.
Paul
cheers for the info, not what i was expecting but hey thats life.
