Muckaway:
yeah, I wasn’t sure and I didn’t ask him to elaborate…that day was a snooze-fest. i think the jist of it was that you’re meant to jump as many gears as possible, burn the clutch out in order to save 0.4mpg (in my case). You’re right regarding not many having Jakes, just our decent ones have those…
Why would you burn out the clutch making LESS gear changes? Its less use of it & so less wear & tear on it & you. He is correct that you should block change. Let the engine do the work not you.
A truck clutch should never be slipped like a car clutch, it should be either in or out.
You should block change DOWN… brakes are for slowing, gears are for going, and you should skip gears going UP when empty or light. Might even find you can miss the odd half gear out when loaded, you’ll soon know if you’ve over done it if the revs drop so much that the engine wont pull, but NEVER slip the clutch.
Muckaway:
yeah, I wasn’t sure and I didn’t ask him to elaborate…that day was a snooze-fest. i think the jist of it was that you’re meant to jump as many gears as possible, burn the clutch out in order to save 0.4mpg (in my case). You’re right regarding not many having Jakes, just our decent ones have those…
Why would you burn out the clutch making LESS gear changes? Its less use of it & so less wear & tear on it & you. He is correct that you should block change. Let the engine do the work not you.
A truck clutch should never be slipped like a car clutch, it should be either in or out.
You should block change DOWN… brakes are for slowing, gears are for going, and you should skip gears going UP when empty or light. Might even find you can miss the odd half gear out when loaded, you’ll soon know if you’ve over done it if the revs drop so much that the engine wont pull, but NEVER slip the clutch.
Go ask in the newbie forum, people who are being taught now or recently & see if they think it makes sense.
If brakes are for slowing as you state, then why have you contradicted yourself before it by saying you should block change down? If you do that then you’re using the gears for braking, not the brakes, hence the contradiction and it not making any sense.
Not at all Rob, sorry, I didn’t realise that some readers were so dumb not to realise you do your braking BEFORE changing gear.
This PM I received (with permission to repeat it) explains it quite well:
a Rob K driving lesson - LOL Block changing down the gears is done after the brakes have already brought down the speed so that the driver changes gear from the gear they were in when they started braking to the gear they now need after finishing the braking
I don’t know what has gone between in PM and as you are not allowed to post private messages we never will;
Yes modern teaching methods suggest gears to go, brakes to slow.
Old fashioned methods taught us to bring the speed down using brakes and gears so you were always in the correct gear to resume progress. But the important thing was that when the engine is turning faster, the compressor is working efficiently, keeping air tanks full, and allowing you to use fresh fully charged brakes when you really need them.
I still remember the maxim, use the same gear to go down hill as you would use to climb it. good advice on a mountain pass in Italy or Yugoslavia.
I haven’t been taught any other way, so for now will stick with the trusted method of old
Driveroneuk:
Not at all Rob, sorry, I didn’t realise that some readers were so dumb not to realise you do your braking BEFORE changing gear.
This PM I received explains it quite well:
a Rob K driving lesson - LOL Block changing down the gears is done after the brakes have already brought down the speed so that the driver changes gear from the gear they were in when they started braking to the gear they now need after finishing the braking
I see Rog is still alive and well then.
But your post is actually nothing to do with braking then. What you’re talking about is selecting the right gear to pull away inafter being in x gear DURING braking. A completely different topic entirely and has no correlation to this discussion.
And I don’t agree that brakes should only be used for braking. I make use of the engine and gearbox on both of my vehicles to slow me down from fast speeds, often to the point of not needing to use the brakes at all if the upcoming roundabout or junction is clear. I did exactly the same in the trucks I drove too and once again there were many times when I never needed to touch the brakes. That’s one of biggest “points” of fuel efficient driving and I’m surprised that someone such as yourself advocates using the service brakes to slow down rather than the engine and box.
Wheel Nut:
I still remember the maxim, use the same gear to go down hill as you would use to climb it. good advice on a mountain pass in Italy or Yugoslavia.
I haven’t been taught any other way, so for now will stick with the trusted method of old
Malc we were talking about normal driving, not special situations. You are quite correct that a low gear should be used to give engine braking when descending steep hills.
Wheel Nut:
I still remember the maxim, use the same gear to go down hill as you would use to climb it. good advice on a mountain pass in Italy or Yugoslavia.
I haven’t been taught any other way, so for now will stick with the trusted method of old
Malc we were talking about normal driving, not special situations. You are quite correct that a low gear should be used to give engine braking when descending steep hills.
Whether it is normal driving or special situations, using my way I am still in the correct gear at all times and with fresh brakes. This is one of those things that I am passionate about, along with on the job training and not classroom waffle.
Before the pedants start. No I wouldn’t go over the M62 from Scammonden Dam to Brighouse Bottom in 7th, 15th or whatever I climbed up near Ainley Top but in normal traffic and normal roads I would use my method.
Muckaway:
yeah, I wasn’t sure and I didn’t ask him to elaborate…that day was a snooze-fest. i think the jist of it was that you’re meant to jump as many gears as possible, burn the clutch out in order to save 0.4mpg (in my case). You’re right regarding not many having Jakes, just our decent ones have those…
Why would you burn out the clutch making LESS gear changes? Its less use of it & so less wear & tear on it & you. He is correct that you should block change. Let the engine do the work not you.
A truck clutch should never be slipped like a car clutch, it should be either in or out.
You should block change DOWN… brakes are for slowing, gears are for going, and you should skip gears going UP when empty or light. Might even find you can miss the odd half gear out when loaded, you’ll soon know if you’ve over done it if the revs drop so much that the engine wont pull, but NEVER slip the clutch.
Happy tipping.
The issue of clutch burning is caused by mismatch between road speed and engine speed and you’re less likely to get that by going up and down the gears using as close ratios as possible.The same issue applies in relation to fast and easy meshing of the gears and loads on the driveline as a whole which is why on the American test you’d fail using block changing instead of the sequential changing method considering that they’re still clever enough to be using proper constant mesh boxes not dumbed down synchro zb to suit the dumbed down modern British ideas of how to drive.
Wheel Nut:
I don’t know what has gone between in PM and as you are not allowed to post private messages we never will;
Yes modern teaching methods suggest gears to go, brakes to slow.
Old fashioned methods taught us to bring the speed down using brakes and gears so you were always in the correct gear to resume progress. But the important thing was that when the engine is turning faster, the compressor is working efficiently, keeping air tanks full, and allowing you to use fresh fully charged brakes when you really need them.
I still remember the maxim, use the same gear to go down hill as you would use to climb it. good advice on a mountain pass in Italy or Yugoslavia.
I haven’t been taught any other way, so for now will stick with the trusted method of old
And the same for me, as i prefer to be in the gear i will need just before i actually need it instead of waiting for a ‘range/splitter’ to do its thing, especially when you’ve spotted that gap 50 yards to your right when approaching that roundabout and your timing the run so as to keep it all moving, (does that make sense?)…and going to this ‘clutch burn’ issue, i found that if you have a regular ride with a manual box, it is just as easy to come down the box (to some extent) without actually using the clutch (Twin Splitter anyone?), i just give the throttle a little blip to bring the revs up a couple of hundred because everybody ‘listens’ to the engine don’t they and learns what it sounds like at what revs and ‘computes the correct gear for the roadspeed’? I’ve had a R420 for a few weeks now (Merc still in garage) and can get it to 40/42mph with minimal usage of the clutch. And one more thing, our drivers use all the gears when running empty (R420 3 over 3) but i only use 3rd H, up the range, 5th L, 6th L and then 6th H. And there is no clutch slip as Scanias dont let you do it. 3 changes from standstill to 53mph…must do something to fuel economy Im off to me bunker now as i can hear some ‘incoming’
Wheel Nut:
I don’t know what has gone between in PM and as you are not allowed to post private messages we never will;
Yes modern teaching methods suggest gears to go, brakes to slow.
Old fashioned methods taught us to bring the speed down using brakes and gears so you were always in the correct gear to resume progress. But the important thing was that when the engine is turning faster, the compressor is working efficiently, keeping air tanks full, and allowing you to use fresh fully charged brakes when you really need them.
I still remember the maxim, use the same gear to go down hill as you would use to climb it. good advice on a mountain pass in Italy or Yugoslavia.
I haven’t been taught any other way, so for now will stick with the trusted method of old
And the same for me, as i prefer to be in the gear i will need just before i actually need it instead of waiting for a ‘range/splitter’ to do its thing, especially when you’ve spotted that gap 50 yards to your right when approaching that roundabout and your timing the run so as to keep it all moving, (does that make sense?)…and going to this ‘clutch burn’ issue, i found that if you have a regular ride with a manual box, it is just as easy to come down the box (to some extent) without actually using the clutch (Twin Splitter anyone?), i just give the throttle a little blip to bring the revs up a couple of hundred because everybody ‘listens’ to the engine don’t they and learns what it sounds like at what revs and ‘computes the correct gear for the roadspeed’? I’ve had a R420 for a few weeks now (Merc still in garage) and can get it to 40/42mph with minimal usage of the clutch. And one more thing, our drivers use all the gears when running empty (R420 3 over 3) but i only use 3rd H, up the range, 5th L, 6th L and then 6th H. And there is no clutch slip as Scanias dont let you do it. 3 changes from standstill to 53mph…must do something to fuel economy Im off to me bunker now as i can hear some ‘incoming’
As I dont intend retaking my HGV or even LGV, my way will do, although Roger Ewen is whispering messages in my ear that the correct way is the new way.
I agree that modern engineering has changed things and when you lift off the loud pedal, no more fuel is injected, however I still prefer a full shoot of air in my tanks. Tnhe ferry trailer you are pulling may have an air leak, the brakes cooked, or simply ready for relining.
Muckaway:
yeah, I wasn’t sure and I didn’t ask him to elaborate…that day was a snooze-fest. i think the jist of it was that you’re meant to jump as many gears as possible, burn the clutch out in order to save 0.4mpg (in my case). You’re right regarding not many having Jakes, just our decent ones have those…
Why would you burn out the clutch making LESS gear changes? Its less use of it & so less wear & tear on it & you. He is correct that you should block change. Let the engine do the work not you.
A truck clutch should never be slipped like a car clutch, it should be either in or out.
You should block change DOWN… brakes are for slowing, gears are for going, and you should skip gears going UP when empty or light. Might even find you can miss the odd half gear out when loaded, you’ll soon know if you’ve over done it if the revs drop so much that the engine wont pull, but NEVER slip the clutch.
Happy tipping.
I do block change (up and down) I have a 12 speed eaton box (keeps your left arm muscles healthy). Because it’s a 6 wheeler with a 12l Cat engine,when loaded I start from 2nd, 4th, 2nd high and then 4th middle/11th (won’t drive in green band at 40 in top gear). I do block down although the Daf/Foden manual does say not to downchange more than 2 gears at a time (wear and tear I suppose) plus I use Jake Brake on either of it’s power settings.
I accept what you said about half gears, they only get used when driving somewhere very steep (ie Birdlip-where there’s always a smell of warm clutches) I must be doing something right as I’m at the top in terms of mpg
Wheel Nut:
I have heard several times, normally from the SAS bloke on the train. “I don’t give a frig about the price of fuel, I don’t pay for it”
Maybe he would care the next time he is driving his pink landrover across the desert and cannot see anything but sand
My experience recalls that fuel in the desert is cheap as chips.
Meanwhile, I’ve gone easier & am considering fully backing off from ‘blipping the throttle’ prior to changing down in order to ‘save’ (?) a teaspoon of the precious liquid. I note that auto boxes still map a ‘blip’ into the sequence when changing down though (60 plate, DAF CF).
Anyone got any advice for manual ‘blipping’ to help me not being a crap driver, please?
By ommitting it, I imagine that I’m making it a bit harder for the clutch - but apart from it not sounding too slick, is the extra wear & tear efficient on what I imagine to be decent clutch plate material spec’s these days?
I don’t understand why you “blip” the throttle before changing down.
I know the reasoning behind doing this in neutral between downshifts with the clutch pedal up, is this what you mean?
Driveroneuk:
No need for doube-declutching on modern synchromesh boxes. No need to blip, BUT, revs should be matched to roadspeed for the gear you are selecting.
So if you’re downshifting how do you match the engine speed for the lower gear without raising the revs by using the accelerator,which to all intents and purposes is what’s meant by blipping .
Synchro boxes have been around for years and like cars they only fitted them to trucks just to suit all the drivers who can’t drive proper constant mesh ones.
del949:
I don’t understand why you “blip” the throttle before changing down.
I know the reasoning behind doing this in neutral between downshifts with the clutch pedal up, is this what you mean?
You’re describing using a constant mesh box but even with a synchro box matching the revs on downshifts takes the loads off the synchronisers and the driveline and prevents excessive braking forces at the drive axle which you’d get if you just let the clutch in with less revs than what match the road speed.
Im off to me bunker now as i can hear some ‘incoming’ 
.