Couple of questions for the experts

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Q 1
I work regular nights, I’ve just found on the net that the maximum I’m aloud to drive is 9hrs and not aloud to extend to 10hrs… True or false?

Q 2
One night I’m asked to start at midnight then the next night my boss wants me in at start 5.30pm, I’m taking my 11hrs daily rest. Does this class as an unreasonable difference between start times?

Extra 1

Day drivers questions.
The lads on days are been routed for 15hrs work, they think this is not aloud. I’ve looked though the rules and regulations and can’t find anything.
Any ideas lads?

Thanks Lee.

2

q 1 correct q2 illegal if u on break q3 yes they can days but only 3 times a week also have to have eleven off gd luck :smiley:

3

topcatracer:
Q 1
I work regular nights, I’ve just found on the net that the maximum I’m aloud to drive is 9hrs and not aloud to extend to 10hrs… True or false?

Q 2
One night I’m asked to start at midnight then the next night my boss wants me in at start 5.30pm, I’m taking my 11hrs daily rest. Does this class as an unreasonable difference between start times?

Extra 1

Day drivers questions.
The lads on days are been routed for 15hrs work, they think this is not aloud. I’ve looked though the rules and regulations and can’t find anything.
Any ideas lads?

Thanks Lee.

Q1 = false - same tacho rules apply for day and night drivers
Q2 = if you are able to not be tired and drive safely then its ok - only YOU can decide
Q3 = a 15 hour shift is permitted but the number is limited to 3 between weekly rests unless any over 3 are using a 3 + 9 split daily rest

You will not find max shift times in the regs but you will find how much daily rest is needed in a 24 hour period which by default reduces how long a shift can be

4

1 - Yes, you can extend to 10 hours on nights

2 - Might be unreasonable to shift start times like that but it’s by no means illegal because, as you stated, you’re taking 11 hours off. I’m assuming you’re finished by 6:30am in the morning ?

3 - Your boss can plan you 3x15 hour days between weekly rests. Good luck finding legislation that says they can’t.

5

Q2 - theres no such thing a an unreasonable difference where driving regs are concerned. The minimum requirements are set out in black and white.
From your wording this seems more like a personal issue than a legal one. The only answer to this would be to refer to your contract to see what’s stated.

6

Q1. 10hr drive 2 times
Q2. You’ve had your required legal rest … its up to you if you feel safe to drive.
Q3. Your planner can plan what he wants … weather you can get it done LEGALLY in that time is another question … :wink:

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Thanks guys great help :slight_smile:

8

topcatracer:
Q 1
I work regular nights, I’ve just found on the net that the maximum I’m aloud to drive is 9hrs and not aloud to extend to 10hrs… True or false?

Without an opt-out agreement in place you’re restricted to 10 hours working time on nights, but there’s nothing to stop you driving for 10 hours per shift twice a week.

topcatracer:
Q 2
One night I’m asked to start at midnight then the next night my boss wants me in at start 5.30pm, I’m taking my 11hrs daily rest. Does this class as an unreasonable difference between start times?

I’ve no idea whether most people would think it’s unreasonable but technically it may be illegal under the working time regulations.

It depends on two things:

  1. Do you have an opt-out agreement in place ?

  2. How many working time hours do you do when you’re on nights ?

Without an opt-out agreement in place you’re restricted to 10 hours working time in the 24 hour period from the start of the shift, however the 24 hour period does not get reset when you complete a daily rest period the way it does for the tachograph regulations.
Bear in mind that working time does not include breaks or POA.

For instance lets say you start at midnight one night and do 7 hours working time and finish work at 08:00 (7 hours working time and 1 hour break/breaks), because you started work at midnight, you now can legally only do another 3 hours working time before midnight the following night (24 hours from the start of the previous shift), that’s 10 hours working time in the period of 24 hours.

So depending on the length of your shifts, if you start work at midnight it’s unlikely that you could legally start another shift at 17:30 the same day, but it’s not impossible to do it legally by any means.

topcatracer:
Extra 1

Day drivers questions.
The lads on days are been routed for 15hrs work, they think this is not aloud. I’ve looked though the rules and regulations and can’t find anything.
Any ideas lads?

There’s no regulation against a company planning a reduced daily rest period for a driver, however if it doesn’t allow the driver to get enough rest to be able to drive safely the company could have problems with the authorities.

9

stevejones:
q 1 correct q2 illegal if u on break q3 yes they can days but only 3 times a week also have to have eleven off gd luck :smiley:

Was that a ■■■■ take Steve, or do you honestly believe you gave the correct answers to 1 and 2?

10

Thanks tachograph.
We have not opted out of the 10hr wtd but our bosses say we have… Lol
If we had and I’ve looked ever where but can’t find it. What is the maximum amount of hours a night driver can work?
I’ve been told that it’s 12hrs max.
I’ve read rule 7.1 work force agreement. But again just say you can extend it but not by how many hours or the total amount you can work.

11

topcatracer:
Thanks tachograph.
We have not opted out of the 10hr wtd but our bosses say we have… Lol
If we had and I’ve looked ever where but can’t find it. What is the maximum amount of hours a night driver can work?
I’ve been told that it’s 12hrs max.
I’ve read rule 7.1 work force agreement. But again just say you can extend it but not by how many hours or the total amount you can work.

A workforce opt out agreement can opt the drivers out of the night time working time limit completely leaving night workers on the same hours as day workers, the only limit is the limit that the tachograph regulations place on drivers.

I know of companies that have implemented a 12 hours working time limit for night workers, I know other companies that have opted out completely, it’s all down to whatever the workforce and management agree should be in the workforce agreement.

12

That’s great thanks mate.
What the company is saying is the the depot in Manchester has opted out to do a 5day week then a 4 day week, we do a regular 5 day week.
Looking into the reg 7.1 we never got asked or given the choice to vote, I think a work force agreement only last 5 years as well, we don’t know the start or end date, we never sign anything as well.
So I think I’m defo right that we have not opted out…

13

topcatracer:
Thanks tachograph.
We have not opted out of the 10hr wtd but our bosses say we have… Lol
If we had and I’ve looked ever where but can’t find it. What is the maximum amount of hours a night driver can work?
I’ve been told that it’s 12hrs max.
I’ve read rule 7.1 work force agreement. But again just say you can extend it but not by how many hours or the total amount you can work.

I was told it only takes two drivers to agree the opt out ( it does not have to go to a full ballot) . And they no longer have to still work there for it to still be binding

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chester1:
I was told it only takes two drivers to agree the opt out ( it does not have to go to a full ballot) . And they no longer have to still work there for it to still be binding

The opt-out may be agreed by a “collective agreement” (where the workers are represented by trade union reps) or by a “workforce agreement” where workers elect representatives from among themselves. Only the latter type has to be renewed every 5 years.

Elected representatives on a “workforce agreement” panel must be drawn from the affected workers, and it is up to the employer to decide how many reps will be on the panel.

While it is a requirement that all affected workers have sight of any draft agreement, there is no requirement for them all to sign it.

So yes, two workers could agree the opt-out on behalf of the entire workforce, but that agreement would be based on their being the elected representatives of their co-workers. It’s not simply a case of only two workers agreeing with it.

15

It’s a very vague thing this opt out thing, there’s is nothing clearly written down, or should I say in clear English… Lol

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There’s a pretty good guide to it here: transportsfriend.org/wtd/reference.html

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Cheers mate I’ll have a look at that later…