If I’m on duty for nine hours is it legal to take a 15min break at hour 5 then another 15min break at hour 8?
Thank you.
Saaamon:
If I’m on duty for nine hours is it legal to take a 15min break at hour 5 then another 15min break at hour 8?Thank you.
Yes.
Obviously this doesn’t take into account any required driving breaks, though if you’ve done some driving the first 15 minute break would count as the first part of a split driving break.
Saaamon:
If I’m on duty for nine hours is it legal to take a 15min break at hour 5 then another 15min break at hour 8?Thank you.
Yes, but duty time is nothing to do with breaks. You could do a shift of 9 hours and with POA, and not reaching 4.5 hours driving, not actually require a break for either set of regulations. It’s working time which triggers breaks for the WTD, not duty.
Thank you for that, I thought I was right but was told by a dcpc trainer the other day I need to have 30mins before I reach 6 hours duty.
Thanks coffee, yes I do mean working time, using the wrong terms. How frustrating, if the people that are training us can’t even get it right what’s the point in it all, it has actually really annoyed me.
Saaamon:
Thank you for that, I thought I was right but was told by a dcpc trainer the other day I need to have 30mins before I reach 6 hours duty.
I hope I can be of help here.
When a DCPC trainer is talking, pay very close attention to the area on the front of their head. If you see movement around the orifice just below their nose then, sadly, with the vast majority of trainers this indicates nonsense/■■■■■■■■/lies are issuing forth and what they are saying is best assumed to be incorrect until further checking takes place.
Saaamon:
Thank you for that, I thought I was right but was told by a dcpc trainer the other day I need to have 30mins before I reach 6 hours duty.
Can you name this muppet and the venue, we can maybe make a list and advise people to avoid them, at least you can ask for your money back. Over the last week there have been half a dozen serious fails in this department. Unless there is only one man talking ■■■■■■■■ which I seriously doubt.
Coffeeholic:
Saaamon:
Thank you for that, I thought I was right but was told by a dcpc trainer the other day I need to have 30mins before I reach 6 hours duty.I hope I can be of help here.
When a DCPC trainer is talking, pay very close attention to the area on the front of their head. If you see movement around the orifice just below their nose then, sadly, with the vast majority of trainers this indicates nonsense/■■■■■■■■/lies are issuing forth and what they are saying is best assumed to be incorrect until further checking takes place.
sorry to jump in here guys but im a bit confused here, our new transport manager (well thats wot his badge says) told mer yest that i need to take my 45min break after 4.5hours after starting work, but i have only drove for maybe 3hours the other 1.5 unloading, it’s multi drop i do so normally i start at half 6 then take my 45mins at half 12 but i never reach my 4.5hours driving limit is this legal does WTD kick in■■? sorry again for jumping guys but so confused
smallsie:
Coffeeholic:
Saaamon:
Thank you for that, I thought I was right but was told by a dcpc trainer the other day I need to have 30mins before I reach 6 hours duty.I hope I can be of help here.
When a DCPC trainer is talking, pay very close attention to the area on the front of their head. If you see movement around the orifice just below their nose then, sadly, with the vast majority of trainers this indicates nonsense/■■■■■■■■/lies are issuing forth and what they are saying is best assumed to be incorrect until further checking takes place.
sorry to jump in here guys but im a bit confused here, our new transport manager (well thats wot his badge says) told mer yest that i need to take my 45min break after 4.5hours after starting work, but i have only drove for maybe 3hours the other 1.5 unloading, it’s multi drop i do so normally i start at half 6 then take my 45mins at half 12 but i never reach my 4.5hours driving limit is this legal does WTD kick in■■? sorry again for jumping guys but so confused
You only NEED 45 minutes break after your first 4.5 hour driving period or you can do a ‘split break’ of 15 mins and then a break of 30 mins needs to be taken at the end of the 4.5 hour driving period. If doing a split break, it has to be in that order, NOT 30 and 15. For the example you mention, you are under WTD rules and so need a break of 30 minutes after 6 hours. Im 99% certain ive got that last bit right, anyone correct me if im wrong!
smallsie:
sorry to jump in here guys but im a bit confused here, our new transport manager (well thats wot his badge says) told mer yest that i need to take my 45min break after 4.5hours after starting work, but i have only drove for maybe 3hours the other 1.5 unloading, it’s multi drop i do so normally i start at half 6 then take my 45mins at half 12 but i never reach my 4.5hours driving limit is this legal does WTD kick in■■? sorry again for jumping guys but so confused
Your TM is talking rubbish, you need a 45 minute break immediately after 4.5 hours driving or before for the tachograph regulations.
You need a 15 minute break before exceeding 6 hours working time for the RT(WT)R.
The 15 minute WTD break can count as the first part of your driving break as long as it’s taken after you’ve done some driving.
You say you start at 06:30 and have your 45 minute break at 12:30, you have not exceeded 6 hours working time and have not reached 4.5 hours driving time so it’s perfectly legal 
Gembo:
you are under WTD rules and so need a break of 30 minutes after 6 hours.
For the working time regulations you need to take a break of at least 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours working time
Gembo:
You only NEED 45 minutes break after your first 4.5 hour driving period or you can do a ‘split break’ of 15 mins and then a break of 30 mins needs to be taken at the end of the 4.5 hour driving period.
Doesn’t have to be at the end of 4.5 hours, you could take it before that, it’s not exceeding 4.5 hours that’s important.
Gembo:
For the example you mention, you are under WTD rules and so need a break of 30 minutes after 6 hours. Im 99% certain ive got that last bit right, anyone correct me if im wrong!
I will. 
I’m 100% certain you have that last bit wrong, it’s a minimum of 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours, not 30.
Coffeeholic:
Gembo:
You only NEED 45 minutes break after your first 4.5 hour driving period or you can do a ‘split break’ of 15 mins and then a break of 30 mins needs to be taken at the end of the 4.5 hour driving period.Doesn’t have to be at the end of 4.5 hours, you could take it before that, it’s not exceeding 4.5 hours that’s important.
Gembo:
For the example you mention, you are under WTD rules and so need a break of 30 minutes after 6 hours. Im 99% certain ive got that last bit right, anyone correct me if im wrong!I will.
I had a feeling that was it 
Knew it was one or the other 
thanks for the info guys its been a rite pain in the neck this week!! the TM still cant get to grips with breaks and working hours 
so here’s what i am doing (well what i’v always done) start at 06.30 work till 12.30 then stop for 45mins, i have only driven for 4 hours at most, after my break i’v only a couple of drops then home so maybe 3hours at most driving till i get back to depot! its a set run with set drops, i’v been stopped and checked many times buy vosa and never had any problems but just couldnt get my head round what our new TM has been preaching
again thanks for the input folks
smallsie:
so here’s what i am doing (well what i’v always done) start at 06.30 work till 12.30 then stop for 45mins, i have only driven for 4 hours at most, after my break i’v only a couple of drops then home so maybe 3hours at most driving till i get back to depot! its a set run with set drops,
Nothing wrong at all with that.
Here’s a badge for your TM
Alternatively, here’s a badge you can wear while talking to him.
I hope this helps.
Coffeeholic:
smallsie:
so here’s what i am doing (well what i’v always done) start at 06.30 work till 12.30 then stop for 45mins, i have only driven for 4 hours at most, after my break i’v only a couple of drops then home so maybe 3hours at most driving till i get back to depot! its a set run with set drops,Nothing wrong at all with that.
Here’s a badge for your TM
1
Alternatively, here’s a badge you can wear while talking to him.
0I hope this helps.
it would go rite over his head the plot thickens he’s now got us doing log books aswell 
In the GV262 (Revised) it says:
Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
— If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.
— If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
— Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.
One word of this is bugging me - CONSECUTIVE. Part of me says if I work 06:00 - 08:00 then have a POA 08:00 - 08:30 then work 08:30 - 12:30 … those working hours were not CONSECUTIVE becasue they were interrupted by the POA.
Why have they used the word CONSECUTIVE which according to Google means “Following one after another without interruption”
I know the GV262 isn’t the actual rules as such - it’s a guide, but that word seems to make me want to inturpret it differently. To me it reads that if the 6 hours aren’t CONSECUTIVE then the first line does not apply - therefore I would only need a break or breaks totalling 6 hours when my work reaches between 6 and 9 hours etc
Why do I read it this way? One word is throwing me
Don’t read that word, it’s not in the regulations.
I hope this helps.
ex_reme_mech:
In the GV262 (Revised) it says:Breaks:
— Mobile workers must not work more than 6 consecutive hours without taking a break.
— If your working hours total between 6 and 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 30 minutes.
— If your working hours total more than 9 hours, working time should be interrupted by a break or breaks totalling at least 45 minutes.
— Breaks should be of at least 15 minutes’ duration.One word of this is bugging me - CONSECUTIVE. Part of me says if I work 06:00 - 08:00 then have a POA 08:00 - 08:30 then work 08:30 - 12:30 … those working hours were not CONSECUTIVE becasue they were interrupted by the POA.
Why have they used the word CONSECUTIVE which according to Google means “Following one after another without interruption”
I know the GV262 isn’t the actual rules as such - it’s a guide, but that word seems to make me want to inturpret it differently. To me it reads that if the 6 hours aren’t CONSECUTIVE then the first line does not apply - therefore I would only need a break or breaks totalling 6 hours when my work reaches between 6 and 9 hours etc
Why do I read it this way? One word is throwing me
There’s a small anomaly between the Working Time Regulations 2005 and the EU Working Time Directive 2002.
Unfortunately VOSA in GV262 have taken the wording from the EU directive 2002/15/EC rather than the UK regulations RT(WT)R 2005.
The EU directive clearly states that “persons performing mobile road transport activities should in no circumstances work for more than six consecutive hours without a break”, the UK RT(WT)R 2005 says “No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break”.
We in the UK work to the RT(WT)R 2005 which does not require the 6 hours to be consecutive.
Check here for confirmation
Ahhh … having only read the GV262 - and not the regulations I would have been none the wiser.
However - it is hardly ever known for this to happen on here but … … … I can declare my last DCPC Trainer was actually CORRECT even after I spent over 30 minutes arguing about the word consecutive. he must have read the regulations
But … the GV262 was recently revised - so why not put it right?
Thanks for the help guys