Do cut-down 8 wheel killingbeck masterpieces count? 
Suttons Tony
Thanks for the info – goes to show you are never to old to learn something new even if it is nearly 40yrs (cannot believe I’ve just written that number) after leaving a company !!
My father drove one of those wagon & drags for Inter City, his trailer boy was Tam Anderson.
Dave.
My father drove one of those wagon & drags for Inter City, his trailer boy was Tam Anderson.
Dave.
I’m afraid I’m hopeless at remembering names, I was only the boy in the depot but once when one of the waggon and trailers ran down on night trunk, which only happened occasionaly, but when it did Davy Coop would be the shunter with another driver as mate (a statuary requirement in those days), but on this occassion I was sent out with him on a load of gin and then a reload of Tractors at Fords at Dagenham. I expect that Tam would have been the mate from Scotland. By the way these Leyland Steers were both fitted with an exhaust brake in place of the more normal dead man trailer air brake on the column, this created more noise than actual retardation.
Tony.
Here’s a Chinese Six Scania…
- CHINESE SIX SCANIA -
Suttons Tony
I think I’m learning more & more about a company I worked for 40yrs ago as this thread progresses !
You mentioned Dave Coop as the London shunter – would that be the same Dave Coop (RIP) that was later on for Howe European, ACH & Hercocks of London ? If it was, then I worked with & knew Dave for a long while and never knew we had an Inter City connection !! Possible small world !!
STRAIGHT EIGHT:
Do cut-down 8 wheel killingbeck masterpieces count?
Oh yes
But this one was actually stretched from a Borderer! The factory did build Mk.1 Chinese 6 tractors though, and they were TS3266. The Rear Steer in the photo is as built by the factory.
All I can tell you about Davy was that he lived out towards Walthamstow as he used to get a lift with a Trunker home who would then carry on up the A10. For myself after getting married in 1968 I decided that being a jack the lad on the lorries was no way for a married man to behave and I left driving and ended up at Thames Television where I worked for over 23 years (I hasten to add I was behind the cameras and certainly not in front of them). Later I was freelance in the TV game but I am now retired and live most of the time in Spain on the Costa Blanca.
My three jobs in Transport were Inter City, Suttons & Son (St Helens) with who I took my Driving test on one of there Atki 8 wheelers which was about 7 years older than I was, (21), the examiner at Wood Green test centre said he had never taken a test before in such a big lorry and I told nor had I!, in fact it was the only day I ever had used L plates, and BRS Cressy Road, Hampstead which as they used to shunt and do change overs with the North West were Depot code CJ, where I started on Trunk doing changeovers at Bromford Lane, Birmingham and Rowley Road, Coventry and later shunting.
240 Gardner:
STRAIGHT EIGHT:
Do cut-down 8 wheel killingbeck masterpieces count?Oh yes
But this one was actually stretched from a Borderer! The factory did build Mk.1 Chinese 6 tractors though, and they were TS3266. The Rear Steer in the photo is as built by the factory.
A LEADER? Think i’m right, think Welches had some. Whats the story with MVD 240? I always thought that was 8LXB powered, but i read somwhere that it had a 6LX-150 in it when Kev Dennis ran her??
When the gross weight laws were first changed for artics from 24t to 32t you were required to run on 5 axles for the full 32t’s , ( later the length and weight laws changed again) and Spurlings or Buckly’s of Warrington ( both TDG company’s and worked together in London) ran an Atkinson Chinese Six Tractor that carried a bulk tank on it and had an artic trailer on a 5th wheel which had two bulk tanks, this ran in ICI colours. I believe this has appeared on the Old Scrap Book thread, certainly somewhere on the forum.
Tony
I remember chinesse six’s being run by our local Rhymney brewery in South Wales. Obviously it gave a greater payload than a 4x2,and helped with the deminshing load problem.They were TK’s wth 366 motors. Remember this was in the days of tarps and ropes, so it made sense to start unloading from the rear.
You would tip with barrels and cases stacked on top, then reload with empties,which needed ropeing but not sheeting.
Many found a second life with coal merchants,and building supplies companies.
When the brewery sold their trucks they were always a decent buy as they were serviced in house and even back in those days had a full service history, and you probably new its driver, and workshop fitter.We bought 2, a TK with a 300 motor and the only Ford D series they ran,they were 4x2s and ran at different weights, but the chinesse six’s,became standard once all the drivers had their class 2 licenses.
Bedfords,good workhorses, drivers either loved them or hated them.
Paul.
STRAIGHT EIGHT:
240 Gardner:
STRAIGHT EIGHT:
Do cut-down 8 wheel killingbeck masterpieces count?Oh yes
But this one was actually stretched from a Borderer! The factory did build Mk.1 Chinese 6 tractors though, and they were TS3266. The Rear Steer in the photo is as built by the factory.
A LEADER? Think i’m right, think Welches had some. Whats the story with MVD 240? I always thought that was 8LXB powered, but i read somwhere that it had a 6LX-150 in it when Kev Dennis ran her??
Ah, now the Leader is a post-1970 Rear Steer, designed for 38 ton operation and differs quite a bit from the earlier 32 ton Rear Steer (JRN above). I’ve seen a pic of Welch’s Rear Steer, but I’ve no idea how many they had. Since the weight limits never went up (the 1970 Show saw a flurry of heavyweight motors from all the manufacturers, because a weight increase was expected), the Leader had a very short production life indeed.
MVD was a Borderer that “Dr” John Killingbeck stretched into a Chinese 6 - unusual for him, as he usually preferred to shorten rather than extend a chassis. I think it had come from Riding’s, and had previously belonged to a hauliler in Scotland that TDG had taken over. Anyway, it was registered after the deadline for the power to weight legislation, and so was plated at only 30 tons with its 180 Gardner.
John uprated the engine, and convinced the test station at Kirkham that it achieved at least the required 204 bhp for a 32 ton plate. Despite all the work, he didn’t run it for very long, and sold the engine to Walsh & Dearden for export - it probably powered a faster-than-average junk in Hong Kong harbour! I’ve a recollection that he drew £1200 for the engine.
However, before he scrapped the lorry, Ted Hannon bought it, and it was fitted with a 150 that Ted already had. Later on, Ted swapped the wagon for an ex-Graham Adams Viewline, with Kev Dennis. Kev ran it for several years and sold it at this first auction - I spent most of the auction standing on the back of it, with the eventual buyer (from Malton) hopping up and down next to me as he bid for it.
Suttons Tony:
When the gross weight laws were first changed for artics from 24t to 32t you were required to run on 5 axles for the full 32t’s , ( later the length and weight laws changed again) and Spurlings or Buckly’s of Warrington ( both TDG company’s and worked together in London) ran an Atkinson Chinese Six Tractor that carried a bulk tank on it and had an artic trailer on a 5th wheel which had two bulk tanks, this ran in ICI colours. I believe this has appeared on the Old Scrap Book thread, certainly somewhere on the forum.Tony
That’s right, Tony - in fact there were two of them, JUL 769/70D
London Carriers used to run a few Leyland Steers. Anyone remember them. I was training to be a mechanic at LC at Bromley, where we used to do in house three yearly overhauls on all the lorries.
peterm:
London Carriers used to run a few Leyland Steers. Anyone remember them. I was training to be a mechanic at LC at Bromley, where we used to do in house three yearly overhauls on all the lorries.
And here’s one of them, still running today:
Paul John:
I remember chinesse six’s being run by our local Rhymney brewery in South Wales. Obviously it gave a greater payload than a 4x2,and helped with the deminshing load problem.They were TK’s wth 366 motors. Remember this was in the days of tarps and ropes, so it made sense to start unloading from the rear.
You would tip with barrels and cases stacked on top, then reload with empties,which needed ropeing but not sheeting.
Many found a second life with coal merchants,and building supplies companies.
When the brewery sold their trucks they were always a decent buy as they were serviced in house and even back in those days had a full service history, and you probably new its driver, and workshop fitter.We bought 2, a TK with a 300 motor and the only Ford D series they ran,they were 4x2s and ran at different weights, but the chinesse six’s,became standard once all the drivers had their class 2 licenses.
Bedfords,good workhorses, drivers either loved them or hated them.
Paul.
There were Chinese 6s on brewery work in South Wales well before the TKs, Paul:
Just to confirm the originator of the Chinese Six here’s a pic of a 1936 type, not sure if it means in the text this is the actual first production ERF Chinese Six or the first ones were like the one shown but all the same driving one of these for the first time must have got many glances on the road from other drivers. I haven’t heard the phrase ‘Four in hand’ used since I was a kid in the Sixties. Franky.
Yes! Thats given me a nudge, I can remember them being called Four in Hands as well as Chinese Six, Steer or Front Steer. What exactly is the official technical name is I do’nt know, I suspect there is’nt one.
Tony.
The official name used by manufacturers is Twin-steer, Twin Rear-steer for a 6x2 that has the second steer axle infront of the rear drive axle or Live axle. An axle that had no drive to it behind the rear driven axle was a Trailing or Dead axle, as on a 6x2 or 8x2 rigid.
Of course these days we have lifting second steer and rear axles or Tags on units. The continental use of steered rear axles is now gaining more use in this country too. The old Chinese Six tractors of the Sixties didn’t gain favour when the 38 tonne limit arrived as the traction to the rear axle was poor and length limits would have been a problem also, lift and tag axles became the thing. I remember one guy spent quite a few years, and money no doubt, developing a 4x2 tractor (a Volvo 88) that would hook up to a twin tyred bogie with a fifth wheel mounted so he could pull tandem trailers when wanting to pull 38 tonne or just use the tractor as normal when pulling a Tri-axle. Needless to say his invention was costly and heavy and I believe came to nothing as hauliers just bought three axle tractors or put another axle on a Tandem until Tri-axle trailers became more available. Bumper will remember who this guy was as he was often seen in the Innovation Centre opposite Van Hee’s yard. I might even have pics of this vehicle if interested. Cheers Franky
Hi All
Hills of Botley had clip on rear axles for Guy Big J to make them 6x2 heavy haulage tractors.