Ive always pondered whether this was some sort of racist thing.
bugcos:
Ive always pondered whether this was some sort of racist thing.
Do you mean that the term “Chinese six” is now politically incorrect?
Is this what led to their demise?
Could they be revived if addressed as,“Oriental six”?
Santa:
Oddly enough the term “chinese six” was never applied to artic units. They were [and still are] called twin steer. A “chinese six” was always a rigid.
That may depend on where you’re from, in the 60’s we called them a “Chinese Six Tractor Unit”
Back in the fifties & early sixties 8 Leggers by law ran at 24t Gross, a normal 6 wheeler ran at 22t Gross and a Chinese 6 ran at 20t Gross. A 4 wheeler at 14t Gross and as a Trailer was normaly a 4 wheeler the trailer was also at 12t Gross with single tyres, A lorry and trailer ran at 32t Gross so a 4 wheeler and trailer grossed out at 26t leaving 6t under max, a 8 wheeler and trailer grossed out at 36t i.e. 4t unusable. The best combination as far as legal weight is concerned is the Chinese 6 and Trailer at 32t, also the cut off rear end made for a better following trailer. If the Trailer had twin wheels it could run at 14t Gross. My first job on leaving School was at Inter-City transport at their London Depot opposite Holloway Womens Prison and I occasionally acted as Trailer Mate. one of their Leyland Steers and Trailers. My next job was with Sutton & Son (St Helens) again at their London Depot where I was a Trailer Mate on Day Shunt on 8 wheeler, Chinese 6’s and 4 wheeler and Trailers, and I canassure you the 8 wheeler had the best turning circle of the three as the important measurement is from the centre of the front wheel to the centre of the rear axle or bogie with the shortest all else being equeal i.e. steering lock will have the best turning circle. By the way tha standard length for general haulage 8 wheelers would be 30ft (24ft) platform and a Chinese 6 would be 2ft shorter.
Hope this throws some light on the subject.
Suttons Tony
When you say you were trailer boy starting work for Inter City please enlighten ! Was that Inter City from Old Inns ■■■■■■■■■■■ ? I drove for them back in the 60’s (finished in '69) and #a never knew there was a depot in London (London Colney yes) #b never knew they ran “wagon & drags” ! If it’s the same Inter City I’ve learnt something new !!
Here are 2 from the Cargo Fan Club website. Both pictures are by Chris Gandy and thus are copyright to him.
Reg: E771 WHR
The Location of this photo is Cullercoats Village,Tyne and Wear. aprox 1992.
Reg: E895 WHR
The Location of this photo is Whitley Bay Tyne and Wear.approx1992.
Hi Big Leggy.
I started work on Inter City in 1958 at their then London Depot opposite Holloway Womens Prison, Well officially Castle Car which had been taken over by Inter City and the official name for the depot was Castle Garage, which handily had a pub right next door and a cafe oppisite run by a Lady named esme I think. Inter City had Two Leyland Steers with trailers plus a third which ran solo. They on occasions ran a big old Albion 4 wheeler as a replacement to pull a trailer. When I was there they were mainly a Leyland 8 wheeler fleet but had 2 Beaver (680’s) units, they also ran a lot of Albions including some 8 Wheelers that had been built for Kenya on the abortive Ground Nut Scheme which had an all metal square cab and Albion Engines, a couple of Reivers, any number of Clydesdales and Chieftans, 3 Atkinson 8 wheelers including the first motors I had come across that had the accelerator pedal inthe middle between the clutch and brake pedals,(little realising that I would have to shunt an old ERF unit in and around London with this setup in the early sixties when I worked for Suttons. They also had a 6 wheel atki which was unusually a flyer and some old Mk3 AEC 8 wheelers. I did in my time visit ■■■■■■■■■■■ and Birmingham Depots. By the way I also used to repair the punctures and worked on the split rims with out any safety cage, just used to stand on them, and when I heard about the lad doing punctures at Tony,s of Granthem being decapitated by a dislodged split rim spring band I got to say the least very worried.
Santa:
Oddly enough the term “chinese six” was never applied to artic units. They were [and still are] called twin steer. A “chinese six” was always a rigid.
That’s not my understanding, my earliest recolection / experience of a “chinese six” was a Scammell Trunker 6x2 and it was definately refered to as a Chinese Six. Looking at the mechanicals, it became obvious it was a very British invention, (a very loose description) more of the adeptation of a very short 8 wheeler with the back axle removed.
Or in the case of the Scammell Trunker never fitted.
Ross.
Suttons Tony
Thanks for the info – goes to show you are never to old to learn something new even if it is nearly 40yrs (cannot believe I’ve just written that number) after leaving a company !!
I worked out of Old Inns ■■■■■■■■■■■ – in those days the only English driver at that depot and that made me as popular as a ■■■■ in a space-suit I can tell you – Sanny Dixon was traffic manager, Jock Crawford was yard/warehouse foreman but overall boss was Jimmy Law !! Long gone days – used to load trailers for London out of “Camp Coffee” Clyde St., Carnation Milk, Scotch Whiskey, Tyres (Dunlop) all on flat trailers + rope, sheet & fly sheet !!
There is nothing really insulting or racist about the term ‘Chinese Six’, it derives from the British habit of describing or naming something by adapting a word or phrase that is already in use or has been for many years. It was always said that the Chinese custom of reading and writing was done from the back to the front as opposed to the way Europeans do it. Therefore anything that seemed a bit ‘back to front’, then the comment would be “That’s a bit Chinese isn’t it”, the same phrase has been use more recently replacing Chinese with Irish, which probably does detract or deride Irishmen. For something to be ‘a bit Chinese’ simply meant it appeared back to front so the term would of come quite naturally to the haulage industry in the 30’s, ERF claiming to be the first to build such a vehicle in 1936, okay we weren’t so PC in those days but the term even then meant no offence. The Trunker infact is not a true Chinese Six as it has a fuel tank between the axles, it’s a Twin Rear Steer. Anyone out there remember this Mammoth Minor owned by Alfred W Ellis during the Sixties, not the real thing but a model. Cheers Franky.
.
Chinese 6’s were first offered by ERF to combat diminishing ‘rear to front’ loads and to aid stability and road holding. It didnt take long before most manufacturers were offering the same option. Twin-steer is a fairly modern term for artics, they were not known by the name ‘chinese 6s’ or twin-steers, they were first called ‘Rear-steers’.
stravaiger
Yes I’ve just looked at lemonmouth’s photo but cannot honestly say I recognise the vehicle in question & as there is no number plate (just trade plate) no clue there either. It might also have been before my time at Inter City (late 60’s) – I did drive an eight wheeler on collections in Glasgow & without power steering I ended up with arms like “Popeye” & keen judgement on how best to turn a corner ! Good old days of transport my a**e !!
Re Chinese six …days of Glenfield Leicester had an exclusive fleet of BMC/Morris tippers 4 and 6 wheelers…quite an unusual choice at the tipper their fleet contained several chinese 6 convertions …again not usual in the bulk tipping industry…also If my memory serves me correctly the bedford VAL coach was not a successful venture with most operators getting rid real quick …Bartons in Nottinghan had several for a short time
I’ve looked at the “Millars of Abingdon” Albion 8 Wheeler and I believe this is probably an ex. Inter City waggon, as I mentioned earlier they had 5 or 6 ■■? Albion 8 wheelers but only one had this type of cab which is in fact the normal coachbuilt cab for the UK market, the others had a all metal cab designed for use in Africa which was squarer than the usual UK cab. The Albion 8 wheeler had a 10+ Litre engine, and a 5 speed gearbox ( 4 speed plus crawler ) and a double drive rear bogie, incommon with 8 wheelers of the day they had only 6 wheel air brakes, but unusualy this was with the leading steer being the unbraked axle, i believe that the old Scammel R8 shared this feature. This waggons regular Driver was a lovely man who later on, so I understand, lost his life near St. Neots on the A1. Unfortunatly Allthough I have been racking my old brains his name escapes me.
Tony.
Getting back to the subject of “The Chinese Six” this arrangement was very popular in Italy with probably more of these than 8 wheelers towing multi axle trailers there back in the Fifties and Sixties.
Tony.
Suttons Tony:
Getting back to the subject of “The Chinese Six” this arrangement was very popular in Italy with probably more of these than 8 wheelers towing multi axle trailers there back in the Fifties and Sixties.Tony.
And plenty of them were right hand drive.
Ross.
bigr250:
Suttons Tony:
Getting back to the subject of “The Chinese Six” this arrangement was very popular in Italy with probably more of these than 8 wheelers towing multi axle trailers there back in the Fifties and Sixties.Tony.
And plenty of them were right hand drive.
Ross.
At least all the FIATS were r/h drive,so I was told, so the driver could see the edge of the road when driving in the mountains where there was not always a barrier between the truck and a long drop!
Made them easy to sell in the UK also.
Suttons Tony:
Getting back to the subject of “The Chinese Six” this arrangement was very popular in Italy with probably more of these than 8 wheelers towing multi axle trailers there back in the Fifties and Sixties.Tony.
Most of the road trains in Italy in the '70’s were 6 or 8 wheelers with a 6 or 8 wheel drag,we used to call them “Caterpllars”
STRAIGHT EIGHT:
Twin-steer is a fairly modern term for artics, they were not known by the name ‘chinese 6s’ or twin-steers, they were first called ‘Rear-steers’.
Ahem…
Rear Steer on the left, Chinese 6 (aka Twin Steer) on the right:
Official factory designations, from the mid-60s were “TRS” (Tractor, Rear Steer) and “TS” (Twin Steer)